Educated - the "homeschooling/noschooling" book

[creekland]

I just saw this (another homeschooling meaning no-schooling) article on BBC this morning and wonder if anyone has started a thread about it yet?  

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43038598

 

It sounds like another "Glass Castle" situation in a way.  I definitely plan to read the book when it comes out.  I love that she not only sees the horrid cons of her past, but also some pros (not unlike The Glass Castle).

 

I still wonder what it is that allows some humans to break out of a cycle while others stay in it seemingly unaware of the rest of the world and how it really is.  It's one thing to make choices about lifestyle or religion or where one wants to live, etc.  It's totally another to believe such a wildly untrue set of beliefs (no holocaust, slavery being kind, gov't is out to get us, etc) and not be open to seeing reality.  The parents likely have a mental illness (not unlike my paranoid dad), but why do some "unexposed" kids question and have enough grit to change and others just continue the cycle?  Is it inherited mental issues?  A follower vs leader personality?  Or something else?

 

Kudos to ??? (the story doesn't say where her first school was.) for giving this gal a chance!  I wonder how she paid for it... (Thinking of numerous "how to pay for college threads."  I doubt her folks filled out the Fafsa!)

Edited February 14, 2018 by creekland

[HomeAgain]

 

  It's totally another to believe such a wildly untrue set of beliefs (no holocaust, slavery being kind, gov't is out to get us, etc) and not be open to seeing reality.  The parents likely have a mental illness (not unlike my paranoid dad), but why do some "unexposed" kids question and have enough grit to change and others just continue the cycle?  Is it inherited mental issues?  A follower vs leader personality?  Or something else?

 

 

It's not unusual around homeschoolers.

 

“A few slave holders were undeniably cruel. Examples of slaves beaten to death were not common, neither were they unknown. The majority of slave holders treated their slaves well.â€â€”United States History for Christian Schools, 2nd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 1991

 

 

[creekland]

 

  It's totally another to believe such a wildly untrue set of beliefs (no holocaust, slavery being kind, gov't is out to get us, etc) and not be open to seeing reality.  The parents likely have a mental illness (not unlike my paranoid dad), but why do some "unexposed" kids question and have enough grit to change and others just continue the cycle?  Is it inherited mental issues?  A follower vs leader personality?  Or something else?

 

 

It's not unusual around homeschoolers.

 

“A few slave holders were undeniably cruel. Examples of slaves beaten to death were not common, neither were they unknown. The majority of slave holders treated their slaves well.â€â€”United States History for Christian Schools, 2nd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 1991

 

IME essentially all kids believe what they are taught when really young.  They are merely parroting what they hear and haven't developed the thought ability to even consider something different.  But at some point, that ability to "question authority" comes (for some sooner than others) and kids usually seek out other thoughts to really question them.  We hear about this often with religion/faith issues.  Kids can end up keeping the "faith" they were brought up with (from atheism to any other religious thought), modifying it, or ditching it completely to choose something else.  It all depends upon how they think about the info out there, but few hold on to what they believe without having gone through a questioning period (as a young or middle aged adult if not younger).

 

But when one encounters something known to be blatantly false - modern history complete with pictures, videos, multiple eye witnesses, etc, such as the Holocaust - how then can anyone continue to believe "alternative facts" once they reach that questioning age of their lives?

[creekland]

And adding further to that, how do a few break out early with being raised with a North Korean type of sheltering?  How do they know there is more out there if they can only get to it (via studying as she did or escaping like the CA lass did not so long ago)?

[EMS83]

I find it fascinating that she merited college entrance and succeeded there without the 12 years of schooling most freshmen have under their belts.  And I agree with her that schools can make it easy to develop a spoon-fed mentality, though I'd think parenting and personality also have a lot to do with where one falls on that spectrum. 

 

[maize]

I found this quote insightful:

 

 

"Tara says there is less tolerance of different opinions within middle-class, liberal academic circles than there ever was among the strict fundamentalists of her childhood"

[EMS83]

Oh yes, that one struck me, too.

[Crimson Wife]

I found this quote insightful:

 

 

"Tara says there is less tolerance of different opinions within middle-class, liberal academic circles than there ever was among the strict fundamentalists of her childhood"

 

Yep. I was just reading an opinion piece yesterday about a new divorcee who put in her online dating profile that she won't consider any guy who voted for a particular individual. There was one guy she went out with on several dates and really liked him before he confessed to her he had voted for the "wrong" individual. She actually got up and LEFT him sitting in the cafe. :glare: What is wrong with people like that?

[creekland]

I found this quote insightful:

 

 

"Tara says there is less tolerance of different opinions within middle-class, liberal academic circles than there ever was among the strict fundamentalists of her childhood"

 

I wonder if that is true though.  Would those middle class academics be accepted in her family - invited for dinner or for a chat in the park?  If so, why is she estranged from them?  When I see extremes of belief, I see a similar lack of tolerance, just on polar ends from each other.

 

Perhaps that's why I'm a moderate.

[creekland]

Yep. I was just reading an opinion piece yesterday about a new divorcee who put in her online dating profile that she won't consider any guy who voted for a particular individual. There was one guy she went out with on several dates and really liked him before he confessed to her he had voted for the "wrong" individual. She actually got up and LEFT him sitting in the cafe. :glare: What is wrong with people like that?

 

Absolutely nothing.  She put her feelings out there, in print, and he essentially lied to her.  I wouldn't want to date anyone who openly lied to me either.  I'd drop that person in a heartbeat knowing the relationship couldn't go any further.  What else would he be willing to lie about?

 

I need someone I can trust for a close relationship as with dating.

 

The fact that this was about politics has absolutely no bearing.

 

If you'd be willing to continue dating a liar, that's fine, but there's nothing at all wrong with someone who has different standards.

 

ETA:  Especially with a divorcee, she's probably had some experience already with a liar.

Edited February 14, 2018 by creekland

[creekland]

I find it fascinating that she merited college entrance and succeeded there without the 12 years of schooling most freshmen have under their belts.  And I agree with her that schools can make it easy to develop a spoon-fed mentality, though I'd think parenting and personality also have a lot to do with where one falls on that spectrum. 

 

I know it had to have helped that she could read and write.  This isn't a case of "no" schooling.  There were just significant gaps.  Once someone can read and write, the rest can come if they are willing to put the work into it as the article suggested she did.  The article also doesn't say what the "disastrous start" was.  I expect the book to explain that too.  Did she do poorly at first and then figure out studying (as many other students can do) or is it just the huge need to fill in gaps socially and/or academically?

 

Being taught to think is a HUGE plus and why I concentrate on that with my high schoolers - no matter what topic we are doing.  Someone who thinks can reason out answers.  Someone who has merely memorized has it tougher.  Too many in school (any form of school) are merely memorizing.

 

I suspect her IQ is a wee bit above average too and that helps.

[Guest]

I am looking forward to reading this book too, and I just recently read The Glass Castle.

[eternalsummer]

I wonder if that is true though.  Would those middle class academics be accepted in her family - invited for dinner or for a chat in the park?  If so, why is she estranged from them?  When I see extremes of belief, I see a similar lack of tolerance, just on polar ends from each other.

 

Perhaps that's why I'm a moderate.

 

 

You're a moderate in today's sociopolitical climate in America.

 

In relation to most of the world, you're quite liberal.

 

In relation to most of the world throughout history (that is, take the last say 500 years of humanity), you're an extreme outlier.

 

You only think you're a moderate because you more or less agree with what the average person thinks and believes today, here, now.  If you lived in a society that believed women shouldn't vote, or that slavery was acceptable under some circumstances, would you still be a moderate?  If you'd been raised in that society, probably so (and you'd see modern American "moderates" as ridiculously misguided).  

 

ETA: you'd likely be just as intolerant of women's rights advocates as you are now of people who think women shouldn't have rights, or as intolerant of abolitionists (if there were any) as you are now of people who think slavery had a place.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by eternalsummer

[creekland]

ETA: you'd likely be just as intolerant of women's rights advocates as you are now of people who think women shouldn't have rights, or as intolerant of abolitionists (if there were any) as you are now of people who think slavery had a place.

 

VERY doubtful.  I'd have been stoned before age 3 if I'd grown up in many places either now or throughout history.  I mentioned that to my mom and she told me that I would never have been born.  She said she'd have been the one stoned long before I came into existence.

 

I've been a "tomboy" since birth and was rebellious enough in elementary school to almost fail first grade due to lack of manners.  ;)

[maize]

VERY doubtful. I'd have been stoned before age 3 if I'd grown up in many places either now or throughout history. I mentioned that to my mom and she told me that I would never have been born. She said she'd have been the one stoned long before I came into existence.

 

I've been a "tomboy" since birth and was rebellious enough in elementary school to almost fail first grade due to lack of manners. ;)

You'd have been rebellious no doubt, but about different things.

 

All of us are shaped by culture and the society around us; humans are profoundly social creatures.

[creekland]

You'd have been rebellious no doubt, but about different things.

 

All of us are shaped by culture and the society around us; humans are profoundly social creatures.

 

Well yeah, it would have been about whatever people were telling me I should or shouldn't do that didn't make sense to me.  It's the same way now.

 

There are a fair number of places on this planet where I fit in better than the US TBH.  North Korea, China, Russia, and large parts of the Middle East aren't among them.

 

In history, there are very, very few.  I'm definitely thankful to have been born as late as I was.