staceyobu Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Any suggestions for a grammar curriculum that could be taught one day a week in a co-op setting for upper elementary and implemented at home the other four days a week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Junior Analytical Grammar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Fix-It Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 MCT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Fix-it grammar. :15 a day 4 days a week. Explanation on the student page would be enough for the parent to help if the student had questions. Also, since students and parents in co-ops in my personal experience tend NOT to do work consistently outside of class (some do many don't) if you find work is not getting done during the week the lessons are short enough that they could probably get most of the week's work done in class. I don't know how class student books for a co-op are handled but you could ask. If a parent buys the teachers manual the teacher has access to the student manual as a PDF. Teacher in a home can print as many as needed for juat the price of paper and ink. Again though not sure how they handle Co-ops. 100% money back guarantee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 Fix-it grammar. :15 a day 4 days a week. Explanation on the student page would be enough for the parent to help if the student had questions. Also, since students and parents in co-ops in my personal experience tend NOT to do work consistently outside of class (some do many don't) if you find work is not getting done during the week the lessons are short enough that they could probably get most of the week's work done in class. I don't know how class student books for a co-op are handled but you could ask. If a parent buys the teachers manual the teacher has access to the student manual as a PDF. Teacher in a home can print as many as needed for juat the price of paper and ink. Again though not sure how they handle Co-ops. 100% money back guarantee. Does it have lessons to go over during class time? What is the appropriate age range for The Nose Tree? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Yes in the TM are lessons for class time. Age range is whenever you start the program (not based on grade levels) but content should be fine for 3rd grade and above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Are you only covering grammar in this class or is this just one component of other things you plan to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 Are you only covering grammar in this class or is this just one component of other things you plan to do? Grammar and writing. Several families would like to do IEW writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Grammar and writing. Several families would like to do IEW writing. Then Fix-It would pair beautifully with that and not take up a ton of time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 Then Fix-It would pair beautifully with that and not take up a ton of time. If we offer the class again the consecutive year with a different IEW writing book, could we do a different grammar book? With new fourth graders? Or do they have to start in nose tree and go through the series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 If we offer the class again the consecutive year with a different IEW writing book, could we do a different grammar book? With new fourth graders? Or do they have to start in nose tree and go through the series? Well, if it is a whole new set of kids you would probably start with Nose Tree again. The grammar books build on skill sets. Nose Tree is level one. I guess you could give the placement test to see if the bulk of the class would place into a different book and start where they place. Book two does review quite a bit, just at a faster pace and in more depth than Book 1. The IEW theme books have groups of theme books for each age range but each theme book within an age range teach the same skill sets. They are essentially interchangeable. It just depends on which theme you want to use. There are not multiple options in the Fix-It series to teach at the same grammar level. Each book is a level. Not a grade level or an age level but a skill set level, if that makes sense. Each book is a different story, too, but you can't (for example) start someone just beginning grammar with lessons in book 6 just because it seems it might be a more appealing story since that is at the most advanced grammar level they offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 How many weeks for class? And is this for a semester or a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 How many weeks for class? And is this for a semester or a year? Year. 28 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Year. 28 weeks. Ah, I see. The Fix-It books are set up for 33 weeks but the first few weeks are so gentle and there are weeks that are strictly review so I feel sure you could compress it into 28 weeks without too much trouble. There is a planner at the back of the TM where you could easily see where to double up. In fact, they have a way where you can cover two books in one year if your student can keep up since the lessons are so short. Have you ever taught IEW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 Ah, I see. The Fix-It books are set up for 33 weeks but the first few weeks are so gentle and there are weeks that are strictly review so I feel sure you could compress it into 28 weeks without too much trouble. There is a planner at the back of the TM where you could easily see where to double up. In fact, they have a way where you can cover two books in one year if your student can keep up since the lessons are so short. Have you ever taught IEW? I've used their writing with my own children from 2nd - 6th grade. I've never taught it in a classroom setting. I've also never used their grammar. Can the Fix it books be used out of order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I've used their writing with my own children from 2nd - 6th grade. I've never taught it in a classroom setting. I've also never used their grammar. Can the Fix it books be used out of order? No. That was what I posted up thread (but I posted several times so you might have missed it). Each book is a stepping stone in acquiring grammar skills. They aren't theme books all teaching the same set of skills like the IEW writing program. Each one is a different story but each book teaches the next level of grammar skills. They need to go in order. Students might be able to start with the next level but you would not start with book 6, for example, just because the story seems more appealing. It would be covering very advanced grammar concepts and would expect the student to have already done all the other books in the Fix-It series. Most people, regardless of age, start with book one unless they have had a lot of grammar exposure already. If you feel the class has already had grammar exposure you could give a placement test to determine if at least the majority of the class could start with book 2. Book 2 does review what was covered in book 1 but at a faster pace. For someone just starting grammar it could be hard to keep up, especially if you are only meeting once a week. The problem with this would obviously be you could have no way to really know if you could start with book 2 until after the placement test has been taken and checked. In other words, with the grades/ages you are talking about I would start with Book 1 to be on the safe side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 No. That was what I posted up thread (but I posted several times so you might have missed it). Each book is a stepping stone in acquiring grammar skills. They aren't theme books all teaching the same set of skills like the IEW writing program. Each one is a different story but each book teaches the next level of grammar skills. They need to go in order. Students might be able to start with the next level but you would not start with book 6, for example, just because the story seems more appealing. It would be covering very advanced grammar concepts and would expect the student to have already done all the other books in the Fix-It series. Most people, regardless of age, start with book one unless they have had a lot of grammar exposure already. If you feel the class has already had grammar exposure you could give a placement test to determine if at least the majority of the class could start with book 2. Book 2 does review what was covered in book 1 but at a faster pace. For someone just starting grammar it could be hard to keep up, especially if you are only meeting once a week. The problem with this would obviously be you could have no way to really know if you could start with book 2 until after the placement test has been taken and checked. In other words, with the grades/ages you are talking about I would start with Book 1 to be on the safe side. I missed your previous post! Thanks for the information. This helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Good luck and best wishes, whatever you decide! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Oh, another advantage of Fix-It is that the physical writing is not a lot and could be modified to be even less (since you will also be writing in the class with IEW also having a ton of writing for grammar on top of that might be problematic). If there are children in your class with dysgraphia or some other reason that writing is challenging this program would probably be the easiest to adapt for their needs without a ton of extra effort from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 Oh, another advantage of Fix-It is that the physical writing is not a lot and could be modified to be even less (since you will also be writing in the class with IEW also having a ton of writing for grammar on top of that might be problematic). If there are children in your class with dysgraphia or some other reason that writing is challenging this program would probably be the easiest to adapt for their needs without a ton of extra effort from you. Yeah... the hardest thing for me to figure out is how to teach a class of 4th to 6th graders each year adding in new 4th graders. I've considered teaching Shurley Grammar 4 or 5 and recommending students work through their grade appropriate level at home and use class time for revew. Shurley looks a bit convoluted to me, though. I like that Junior Analytical Grammar is a one year program and we could potentially just repeat it year after year. I could recommend supplementing repeating students with Fix-it at home. Fix-it would be great to go along with IEW, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 So each year you would potentially have students from the previous year taking the same class again but also have new students who had not taken the class before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 How much time will you have in class? Covering the writing in IEW will take up some time. I wouldn't want a grammar lesson to take up a ton of time if you are also trying to cover writing. Hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) So each year you would potentially have students from the previous year taking the same class again but also have new students who had not taken the class before? Yes. We have two hours in the afternoon to do grammar and writing. If it takes less time, we may look at adding something else to that time frame. Edited December 23, 2017 by staceyobu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I think I am seeing why you were asking about using the Fix-It books out of order. You were thinking that the next year the kids that had already done book 1 would need a new story? Or more advanced material? But then what to do for the new students... Theoretically if you have a large group of students from a previous year taking the same class again, but you have also added in some new students, you could start everyone with Book 2 of Fix-it but new students may need a little extra help at times. Like I mentioned up thread, Book 2 reviews what happened in Book 1 for a few weeks so they wouldn't have to have prior knowledge. They would just need to be able to learn at a faster rate. If the new students ran into snags you might be able to use some of the material from Book one to give them a bit of review alongside the book 2 lessons or take a few minutes during each class to work with them specifically while the other students are completing their lesson independently. Would students only do 2 years of this class, potentially? Or since it is 4th - 6th might it be 3 years? I don't think Fix-It would work if a student were going to be in this class for 3 years in a row when new students would be coming in every year. If it is only 2 years though I think it would definitely work. Book 1 and Book 2 are similar in feel and coverage. Book 2 just goes into more depth and at a faster pace. Since the class is 2 hours (that is a lot of time so I would build in some sort of physical activity in the middle) you could possibly even run Book 1 for newbies and Book 2 for returning students since the lessons would be similar. Book 3 shifts gears. It isn't really covering the same things. It takes a leap and might be hard to run at the same time as either Book 1 or Book 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 The writing part of class is probably going to take up the most time. Having a grammar program that isn't time consuming may be the best option, whichever one you pick. I have taught IEW to more than just my kids and sometimes we needed to take a LOT of time to get through a lesson. It helped to know that the grammar lesson would be short so we could spend more time on the writing. Fix-It uses the same terminology as IEW writing programs, by the way, and is specifically designed to compliment IEW. They don't have to be used together but I definitely found it helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syllieann Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Grammar for the well trained mind has the same lessons for multiple years. Maybe you could do the first 2/3 ish each year for 4th through 6th graders...so year 1 do first 2/3 of workbook 1. Year 2 do first 2/3 of workbook 2 and year 3 do first 2/3 of workbook 3. 6th graders could complete ther remaining portion outside of class or leave the more advanced stuff for 7th and 8th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 Grammar for the well trained mind has the same lessons for multiple years. Maybe you could do the first 2/3 ish each year for 4th through 6th graders...so year 1 do first 2/3 of workbook 1. Year 2 do first 2/3 of workbook 2 and year 3 do first 2/3 of workbook 3. 6th graders could complete ther remaining portion outside of class or leave the more advanced stuff for 7th and 8th grade. I really hadn't looked at this, but wow, it could be a perfect fit. It says there will be four years of workbooks, and students can enter at any year. So, we could rotate through it every four years! I'm wondering if the average 4th grader could hang with it. It definitely looks intense... But, it also looks super good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Grammar for the well trained mind has the same lessons for multiple years. Maybe you could do the first 2/3 ish each year for 4th through 6th graders...so year 1 do first 2/3 of workbook 1. Year 2 do first 2/3 of workbook 2 and year 3 do first 2/3 of workbook 3. 6th graders could complete ther remaining portion outside of class or leave the more advanced stuff for 7th and 8th grade. This does look like it might be a good fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syllieann Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I really hadn't looked at this, but wow, it could be a perfect fit. It says there will be four years of workbooks, and students can enter at any year. So, we could rotate through it every four years! I'm wondering if the average 4th grader could hang with it. It definitely looks intense... But, it also looks super good! It says the complexity increases after week 20, so you would probably want to cut it off there, stretching those 20 weeks across the entire year to give things more time to marinate for the 4th graders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 Grammar for the well trained mind has the same lessons for multiple years. Maybe you could do the first 2/3 ish each year for 4th through 6th graders...so year 1 do first 2/3 of workbook 1. Year 2 do first 2/3 of workbook 2 and year 3 do first 2/3 of workbook 3. 6th graders could complete ther remaining portion outside of class or leave the more advanced stuff for 7th and 8th grade. Have you used this? How long do the daily lessons take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syllieann Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Have you used this? How long do the daily lessons take?No, I was trying to decide between this and fix it. I think it will be fix it for me. I would try posting on the logic board for details on time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Grammar for the well trained mind has the same lessons for multiple years. Maybe you could do the first 2/3 ish each year for 4th through 6th graders...so year 1 do first 2/3 of workbook 1. Year 2 do first 2/3 of workbook 2 and year 3 do first 2/3 of workbook 3. 6th graders could complete ther remaining portion outside of class or leave the more advanced stuff for 7th and 8th grade. It's taking us 20 minutes four days a week minimum. Do you have that much time? Will the kids burn out on it? I really like it but I can't see parents doing this at home. It's very teacher intensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Have you used this? How long do the daily lessons take? Plan for 30 minutes. Sometimes we break up the "long" lessons. We do it four days a week. I think my kids would burn out if I tried to fit it over less days. 30-40 minutes would be the max they could handle. I really like it though. It's what we needed, which is a strong grammar that also reviews things like capitalization, punctuation, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted December 26, 2017 Author Share Posted December 26, 2017 It's taking us 20 minutes four days a week minimum. Do you have that much time? Will the kids burn out on it? I really like it but I can't see parents doing this at home. It's very teacher intensive. Yes... I am looking at Shurley now. I need something that isn't super intensive at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smarson Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 We're using IEW The Nose Tree in our co-op this year for Grammar and All Things Fun and Fascinating for writing for 3-6 graders. But you've brought up a good point - what to do next year when all of these kids have done book 1 of IEW's grammar and are ready for book 2 but we'll have new 3rd graders ready for The Nose Tree... Hmmm, something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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