Say something or not?

[fralala]

...she'll go for a week or more at a time not talking to me (when we see each other regularly)....

 

OK, this in and of itself would make me think she suffers from some kind of mental illness, and would make me concerned about her kids. This is not the behavior of a stable adult, and if she can't handle relationships with adults, handling the behavior of immature little people who act like children are supposed to act must be a huge challenge.

 

I am not going to speak to the incident in question (although my general observation is that adults who rescue kids from the natural consequences of their actions and then punish them with rage generally aren't very competent disciplinarians-- a four year old who spills isn't uncommon, and the adults around him do him a favor by paying it little mind other than to equip him with paper towels). However, I will say that my own sister (who suffers from depression) had several incidents caring for her children where I had to look her in the eyes and say (as firmly as I could without breaking down into tears) that her behavior was emotionally abusive, even though I knew it would alienate her. I couldn't not speak up. But I was sure to frame it not as "You are abusive," but in terms of the precise behaviors that troubled me.

 

(My sister is now on medication for her depression, and the difference is night and day. She is not an abuser. Her illness was causing her to behave in a way that troubles her deeply now. So another way to frame it, I suppose, is the fact that outside of those Bad Moments, I asked caring questions-- "I'm worried about you. You don't seem to be enjoying _____. Have you sought help for that? I care about you. I hope you'll see someone who can help you more than I can.")

 

If it weren't my sister...I don't know. I might not want to get any more involved with the person. I might just report it. I'd trust your gut. People generally are on their best behavior with their kids in public, and that's something that would worry me. (Sometimes we all lose it a little, but you're not judging from this one time-- you're familiar with this person's behavior.)

[Tanaqui]

The fact that she considered spilling water to be an act worthy of punishment is concerning to me - especially since she felt there was nothing wrong with saying he was unsafe in her presence. Perhaps not enough so to report just off of that... but it starts drawing a picture. And what else is going on? You say she's "got a lot of anger and frustration", she's "not open to change", that if you don't support and validate her subpar parenting decisions she doesn't talk to you for a week because she is "extremely defensive" and - judging from your later anecdote - she has a history of leaving him unsupervised for long enough to get into serious trouble (like driving a car).

 

No one thing you said sounds like "god, jump for the phone!!!", but it all looks really, really troubling when I put it together like this.

 

Ok I understand what you are saying, but part of me feels like as a friend, I should try to talk to her first. My husband's role as a mandated reporter aside, shouldn't my role as the friend be to address with her what I see?

 

It's not either/or - and honestly, it doesn't sound like she's very receptive to what you have to say anyway. You said she gets defensive and she'll be angry.

 

Given his age, and all the details you've posted, I would report this, and give them all the context you gave here. It's not the one thing. It's everything.

[SKL]

Was spilling the water an accident?  I agree that it is a bit unhinged to punish a child for a pure accident (though I could see being very upset if the accident was caused by disobedience or unruly behavior).

 

As for her tendency to avoid people after being spoken to about her kids - it could be that she's ashamed and afraid to be further judged.  I still think that indicates mental health issues - I mean, a normal person would get embarrassed in the moment but get over it within hours or a day.

[Daria]

Ok I understand what you are saying, but part of me feels like as a friend, I should try to talk to her first. My husband's role as a mandated reporter aside, shouldn't my role as the friend be to address with her what I see?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, I meant that as a mandated reporter. I should have been clear.

[AimeeM]

It sounds like she was feeling anger towards the child and felt it was safest to put distance between herself and the child, and as it was at an event, didn't feel comfortable asking somebody else to take over for her at that point.

 

I would be very uncomfortable witnessing it and would have addressed it at the time -- but as gently as possible. I have special needs' kids and I understand frustration, so I likely wouldn't have "confronted" her, as much as I would have said something like, "I'm going to stand outside with Max because I'm not comfortable with him being outside in the cold by himself right now; that will give you some space to take a breather. Do you need anything before I head out there? Oh, and where is his coat -- I'm sure you meant to put it on him, so I'll go do it for you now."

 

 

It's a hard place to be in (your place in this, I mean). Discomfort over the parenting details another makes is always difficult. For example, I'm highly uncomfortable with children being struck -- on the bottom, on the hand, wherever. It makes me feel nauseated. However, it's certainly legal in my state to spank/smack/belt your child if you choose to do so, so saying something would only be MY discomfort -- not a potential legal abuse matter.