3rd Grade Math: Multiplication & Division Question

[CAtoVA]

If your child is doing (or recently has done) 3rd grade math, what topics/procedures of multiplying and dividing is he or she doing for this grade?

 

Background: My DD #1 is  now in 3rd grade. Up until this year we were working with Singapore Math Standards and MEP. This year I changed over to Beast Academy (3A-D) and Math Mammoth (Grade 3) at her request. I happen to have Singapore Math Grade 3 from working with her older brother and was looking it over recently. To my surprise (because I didn't remember) the division and multiplication is more advanced than what is presented in Beast and Math Mammoth. This year, she has been doing basic multiplication tables through 12, multiplication and division fact families through 12, multiplying and dividing word problems and some basic dividing with remainders ( two digit dividends like 56 divided by 6). She also has been multilpying and dividing numbers by 10's (45 x 10, 568 x 100, etc).

 

The Singapore 3rd grade program has three digit numbers multiplied by one digit numbers (with "carrying") and long division with three digit dividends. It looks more advanced than what she has been doing this year. So, now I am wondering if I should use the Singapore Math grade 3 materials as a supplement for multiplying and dividing? Or, is Singapore Math for 3rd grade pretty far advanced as far as multiplying and dividing goes? I know it's ahead generally but maybe its REALLY advanced as far as multiplying and dividing? 

 

She will be tested in about three months (for my state) but I cannot see the test until about 4 weeks before I use it so I don't know for sure what will be on it.

 

 

[MistyMountain]

It does introduce those concepts earlier then typical 3rd grade curriculum.

[CAtoVA]

Thanks for the comment!!

 

So, Singapore is kind of an "outlier" when it comes to early multilpying and dividing? I just don't want my DD to freak out when she sees her annual "state check up"  test (she can be test phobic anyway). It doesn't bother me as I think we will be going back to Singapore for 4th grade (keeping in Beast for variety) and I know there will be review.

 

This is the second time around for me teaching primary math so I don't have a whole lot of experience with what's "typical" for most 3rd grade curricula. It looked more like 4th grade to me, though, especially the long division with three and four digit dividends and remainders and the multiplying with three and four digit factors.

[HomeAgain]

Mine did 3 digit by 1 digit, but it ramped up slowly.  1 digit by 1 digit.  10s by 1 digit.  10s and 1s by 1 digit (seen together then separate problems to work and add).  Then carrying the tens/hundreds.  Finally multidigit by multidigit using carrying.

[mountains27]

My 3rd grader hasn't even touched multiplying yet. He is working in MM3 and BA3A but needed a slower pace so we are just finishing up borrowing with subtraction and carrying in addition and waiting to finish the last chapter in BA3A so that we can start 3B which introduces multiplying. He is starting to ask to work on multiplying now and demonstrating that he understands the concept already so I'm hoping it's a sign that he is ready to learn and it will be easy for him to grasp...he has a hard time with math in general so he might not be considered on point for the average 3rd grader but learning well at his pace.

I should note we live in a state with virtually no homeschool requirements so we don't have testing to do and don't have to demonstrate that he is at "grade level"

 

Also my oldest is in MM5 and BA4A and multiplying 3 digits by 3 digits with carrying now. Last year she would have been a 3rd grader by PS standards and started multiplying work then. I think she got to multiplying 3 digits by 1 towards the end of the year...maybe? She is a bit of a math wiz though so she moved along quicker then her brother anyway. 

[AmandaVT]

DS is taking the IOWA this week and next week and I just looked at the math section. For the most part, facts within 12 are what's being tested. 63 / 7 = , 12 x 4 =, etc. There are a few 700 x 5 = and that type of questions that should be pretty easy for her if she finished Beast 3A-D. I don't see anything in there that DS won't be able to do after finishing up Beast 3 and MM 3. 

 

Hope that helps!

[RootAnn]

Abeka Arithmetic 3 ramps up really fast, then levels off around the middle of the year. By the end of the book, they are doing three digit by two digit multiplication and four digit dividends. They don't introduce two digit divisors until the 4th grade book. (Abeka's 4th through 6th grade books don't continue this breakneck pace. The third grade book is very difficult & it happens to be where many homeschoolers jump ship from Abeka to another program. Often, if you successfully finish the 3rd grade book, you can easily test into a 5th or 6th grade level of another program.) 

 

Faster isn't necessarily better, though!

[CAtoVA]

AmandaVT, thanks for that info! My DD will be taking the IOWA but the place I get it from only allows me to have it for about 4 weeks total so when I get it I pretty much need to be ready to test. It's good to know that what my DD has done will be enough for this year's test.

 

I totally agree RootAnn that faster is not always better! Personally I prefer not rushing foundational concepts and procedures.

 

Thanks to everybody else for their comments. You have been really helpful!

[vonbon]

We're using Singapore 3A/3B this year for 3rd grade and I've been right in the thick of what you're asking about.  We've used Singapore every year so far.  

 

I really like the Singapore approach but the multiplication/division units have driven me a bit crazy this year.  The units flip-flop back and forth a lot between the two operations, which would be OK/good but...then there are some big leaps (to my mind's way of working) between a simple multiplication concept (5 x 3 = 15, for example) to a fairly complex concept (long division, for example).  It doesn't seem like there are enough small steps for the student in between...(But I've never written a math book, so take it for what it's worth, LOL.)

 

Some problems in the units in 3B require some fluency with the concepts of earlier units in 3A.  That's obvious--I know math is a series of "building blocks" but it's stressful to me because I want things in a neat little package and to finish the level this year. :001_rolleyes:   For example, the student needs to be able to (long division) divide dollars/cents ($49.50 / 9) so if they haven't mastered long division prior to this unit, the $ and decimal are only going to cause more confusion...  

 

I prefer to teach concepts by using concrete, real-life application or meaningful manipulatives before jumping to the algorithm.  My reasoning for this is that, as a child, I became very good at algorithms, but had almost zero understanding of what they actually meant in real life.  So an "A" in math for many years equated to, well...a very confused adult!  I'm trying to help my children obtain number-sense early on in life rather than them gaining it post-college, as I did.  LOL

 

It's been difficult for me this year to maintain a good pace through Singapore because the leaps are too big and require too much abstract work without including these concrete concepts.  I'm not satisfied with DD just acquiring the steps/algorithms.  I want them to mean something--as much as possible for an 8-year-old, anyway.  I know some true understanding will come later as life requires more daily application of math.  

 

Anyway, I've made peace with Singapore 3A/B: For DD to focus on new concepts rather than getting bogged down, math fact fluency is essential.  We purchased Reflex Math a year ago for -/+ fact fluency and she's now becoming fluent/fast with multiplication/division facts through 12.  I'm requiring it or some game or activity to increase fluency everyday.  These skills can only help her in life, so it's not lost time.  To reduce my own stress about the pace, we've left some parts of the division units to circle back to in a few months and have worked our way through Time, some capacity stuff, graphs/tables, etc.  This way, we're not just in a "holding pattern" and should be able to finish 3A/B before beginning 4th grade.  

 

FWIW, I've consulted with a really experienced teacher who has seen many test scores (20+ years) of students.  She confirmed that Singapore is generally at least half-year (if not more) ahead in terms of the normal standards per each grade.  Other posters have confirmed that here on the boards.  DD did some standardized testing (a nationally-known type that is well-respected) this year and did well in Math; it was a confirmation that we're on the right path.  Our "way" on the path is to really slow down to a crawl sometimes to make sure those concepts are rock-solid, sometimes circling back around when things get too tough.  I don't want to create a dislike of math because my expectations of staying on a particular pace through a curriculum are too rigid.  

 

A few more thoughts:

 

It does seem to me that sometimes students just aren't developmentally ready to "grasp" knowledge that is presented--either brain-wise or just interest-wise, so I gently introduce and then come back in a few months' time.  Usually that's way better for all involved than the times I've tried to push through when DD is not ready.  Many veteran educators/HS'ers have written about this.

 

DD is on the younger side for her grade and didn't seem ready for some of the -/+ concepts in Singapore 2A/B at the time last year.  I used the same way of jumping ahead to simpler concepts (geometry, graphing, etc.) to keep a good pace and then coming back to the harder ones later.  It resulted in us actually finishing 2B at the beginning of this schoolyear (3 or 4 units left?) but it worked out really well.  We're on pace to do the same this year.  We'll probably do very "light" homeschooling this summer just to continually build on these math concepts in a gentle way.

 

I wrote a lot; hopefully you can glean something from my angst over the last few months/years!  Not stressing anymore about the Singapore pace!   :001_smile:  Best wishes for you to find your way too!

[AmandaVT]

AmandaVT, thanks for that info! My DD will be taking the IOWA but the place I get it from only allows me to have it for about 4 weeks total so when I get it I pretty much need to be ready to test. It's good to know that what my DD has done will be enough for this year's test.

 

I totally agree RootAnn that faster is not always better! Personally I prefer not rushing foundational concepts and procedures.

 

Thanks to everybody else for their comments. You have been really helpful!

 

No problem! Yes, we only have it for 21 days, and I've been impressing upon DS not to write on the test booklet or let his water glass get anywhere near the testing materials! :-)

[CAtoVA]

vonbon, thank you for the thoughtful comments! I had the opposite experience in school that you had—I struggled with memorizing algorithms and that was the only way math was taught. I really needed to see the "how" and "why" in order to understand. As an adult, I have had to teach myself math and have spent a lot of time researching math education. With my kids I really stress number sense and true understanding because I know how important it is!