Which house to buy?

[TammyS]

I have two questions after reading this thread.

 

 1. I always thought an 'illegal kitchen' was in reference to a single family home being modified to include a tenant situation.   Around here, inlaw suites and such are fine if it's occupied by one family, which is what OP is referring to. (But not the 'rent it out' until ds needs it)   When we bought this house it had two kitchens, but was a single family home. So what's the issue with having a second kitchen? If there is enough capacity for the added electrical load and the work is properly done, what is the issue? Never heard of this. 

 

2. In this day of so many people having home based businesses, how do HOA covenants prevent people from having a home based business?  Advocare, LuLaRoe, Pampered Chef, or even the guy who has a remodeling business. He has no physical location other than his house but he has a sign on the side of his truck.  So...are ALL home based businesses banned by these strict HOAs or just ones where customers frequently come to the house? My sister is a long arm quilter and her HOA is quite picky but nobody seems to care that she quilts for money in her home. She's on the board of the HOA and they're aware of her small home based business. 

 

I had no idea some places were so regulated. My limited knowledge of illegal construction is mostly from Flip or Flop, where they buy a house and find that an addition was built without a permit.  Sometimes they get it approved and other times they have to tear it down.  Enlighten me! Dh and I are starting to look at homes in another state in anticipation of his retirement soon and I don't want to be surprised in a bad way. 

 

The answer to both of these things is that it depends on local/HOA rules.  A municipality determines what is a "legal" kitchen and what is not, and it varies by each place.  Whether an HOA allows a home based business depends on the particular HOA.  Most seem to only disallow businesses that would bring traffic (customers) to your home, or that would require storing things at the home (such as dump trucks), but some disallow EVERY kind of home based business, probably because they don't want to have to sort it on a case by case basis (like, if customers are dropping off stuff to be quilted, is that annoying to the neighbors?  even if customers don't come by, are you getting UPS deliveries every day?  etc).

[Bluegoat]

Yeah, the kitchen thing is odd.  I know a few people who have a second kitchen that has access to an outside patio on a different level or that they use for something like home brewing.  It seems really weird to police that, like saying people can't have a second bathroom.

 

THat being said, some HOAs have rules that are illegal, when it comes down to it.  No home business at all might fall in there.

[Annie G]

The answer to both of these things is that it depends on local/HOA rules.  A municipality determines what is a "legal" kitchen and what is not, and it varies by each place.  Whether an HOA allows a home based business depends on the particular HOA.  Most seem to only disallow businesses that would bring traffic (customers) to your home, or that would require storing things at the home (such as dump trucks), but some disallow EVERY kind of home based business, probably because they don't want to have to sort it on a case by case basis (like, if customers are dropping off stuff to be quilted, is that annoying to the neighbors?  even if customers don't come by, are you getting UPS deliveries every day?  etc).

 

Sis's HOA is ok with people having home based businesses. The guys who cut the grass for almost everyone live there so I guess it's hard to rule that others can't work out of their home if landscapers have their mowers in their garage. 

But her HOA requires that the owners get permission before holding an open house when they're selling their house- they are asked to approve it because the gate has to be kept open instead of visitors needing a pass code. 

 

But I'd think a HOA would choose to either allow all HBB or ban them all.  Because where's the line? Sis gets probably two deliveries a month from customers which is fewer than my dh gets from Amazon. But how many is too much? Tough for an HOA to decide. A LuLaRoe rep might be doing pop up boutiques in her house but is that any more annoying than a neighbor who hosts a weekly teen youth group? 

 

We've never lived where there was an HOA but many of the houses we're looking at have them. Are most restrictive or most just minimal intrusion?   I thought HOA rules were mostly 'pay a fee to keep the pool maintained' and 'keep your house in decent shape'. But lately I'm hearing things like what kinds of plants are allowed in the front yard, how many cars a family can have, what kind of pets they can have, etc. 

[TammyS]

 Are most restrictive or most just minimal intrusion?   I thought HOA rules were mostly 'pay a fee to keep the pool maintained' and 'keep your house in decent shape'. But lately I'm hearing things like what kinds of plants are allowed in the front yard, how many cars a family can have, what kind of pets they can have, etc. 

 

It's extremely variable.  Many HOAs not only care for community items (like the pool) but see it as their job to keep up property values (so restrictions would include: types/quality of landscaping, paint colors, yard ornaments, home maint.outside and sometimes inside, clunker cars, etc) and quality of life (so restrictions might include: quiet hours, outdoor equipment/pools/trampolines, size/type of pets, holiday decoration restrictions/timelines, clothesline restrictions, how many vehicles can be parked at your property for events like a party - sometimes it's ok just for a single event, but regular meetings wouldn't be allowed, age restrictions, overnight guest limitations, 2nd residence restrictions - hence the "illegal" kitchen).

 

An HOA is like a marriage.  You want to REALLY know what you're getting into.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Association-Bentley-Little/dp/0451204123/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1484425043&sr=1-2&keywords=the+association

 

[planner]

I have two questions after reading this thread.

 

 1. I always thought an 'illegal kitchen' was in reference to a single family home being modified to include a tenant situation.   Around here, inlaw suites and such are fine if it's occupied by one family, which is what OP is referring to. (But not the 'rent it out' until ds needs it)   When we bought this house it had two kitchens, but was a single family home. So what's the issue with having a second kitchen? If there is enough capacity for the added electrical load and the work is properly done, what is the issue? Never heard of this. 

 

2. In this day of so many people having home based businesses, how do HOA covenants prevent people from having a home based business?  Advocare, LuLaRoe, Pampered Chef, or even the guy who has a remodeling business. He has no physical location other than his house but he has a sign on the side of his truck.  So...are ALL home based businesses banned by these strict HOAs or just ones where customers frequently come to the house? My sister is a long arm quilter and her HOA is quite picky but nobody seems to care that she quilts for money in her home. She's on the board of the HOA and they're aware of her small home based business. 

 

I had no idea some places were so regulated. My limited knowledge of illegal construction is mostly from Flip or Flop, where they buy a house and find that an addition was built without a permit.  Sometimes they get it approved and other times they have to tear it down.  Enlighten me! Dh and I are starting to look at homes in another state in anticipation of his retirement soon and I don't want to be surprised in a bad way. 

The reason the a full second kitchen is illegal is because of city zoning. This is a single family residential zone. Having two full kitchens makes it really easy to divide a house. The city doesn't want to police how people are using second kitchens so they are just banned.

 

Home occupations are generally allowed if they take place in the main home and are not visible to a casual observer. Accessory building are generally not allowed to be used for a home occupation. The reasoning is that it is more likely for loud activities to take place which would be detrimental to the neighborhood. I know I wouldn't want my neighbor operating a cabinetry shop from his garage. Some uses are best for commercial and industrial areas. Here, the city and the HOA both have regulations regarding them.

[Carol in Cal.]

I would go with house #1 because of the lack of HOA and the detached apartment. It would be worth trying to evaluate propane and water costs, though. Is there a way to get neighborhood figures for that?

I wondered what it would cost to get natural gas hooked up to this one.  

It might not be beyond the realm of what is likely/possible if a lot of the neighbors have it.

Also, I'd personally look at solar.  Prices on that have come down a lot, and it's possible that the need for propane could be significantly reduced with a solar installation.

[wapiti]

Zombie thread from January.  Probably OP already decided.

Edited June 3, 2017 by wapiti