Great Courses vs MOOCs

[chocolate-chip chooky]

I've heard Great Courses mentioned plenty of times and thought it was time to check them out.

 

But what's the difference to free MOOCs?

 

More depth? Longer courses? Is there compulsory assessment? 

What do you really get for all those $$?

[Corraleno]

We are big fans of the Great Courses, which have been the backbone of DS's education. Most of them are very high quality, with top professors who are also very good lecturers. Most of the lectures are very meaty, and are delivered in a professional, polished way, which is not nearly as true of MOOCs (at least in our experience). As an example, DS did a MOOC from HarvardX called The Ancient Greek Hero in 24 Hours, by Prof. Gregory Nagy. Nagy is an expert in his field but ZOMG there were so many digressions and tangents and so much rambling and repetition it was crazy-making. I bought the book that was published to go with the course, which turned out to be just a transcript of his lectures, and it's incredibly hard to wade through it. In contrast, we've done dozens of Great Courses on the ancient world, most of which have been outstanding. (Elizabeth Vandiver, John Hale, and Kenneth Harl are particular favorites.) DS is currently writing a paper on hoplite warfare and wanted to rewatch some of the lectures from Garrett Fagan's Great Battles of the Ancient World. Each one of those lectures is so dense with information they bear watching multiple times. Each course comes with a guidebook that includes an outline or summary of each lecture, discussion questions (usually 2 per lecture), and suggestions for further reading. 

 

The advantages of MOOCs are (1) they're free and (2) they are more interactive in the sense that they usually offer discussion forums where students can ask questions of the TAs and the prof and can discuss issues with other students. Some of the MOOCs DS has taken he thought were very good; Sagas & Space in Medieval Scandinavian Literature and Endangered Languages are two I can think of off the top of my head. But some others have been really boring and poorly organized and were quickly dropped.

[quark]

For us, the difference between MOOCs and GCs is akin to the difference between a mass-produced, conveyor belt class and one that is customized for a certain audience. It's an odd comparison (and maybe unfair) since GCs are not exactly made to order but that's my impression. Like Corraleno says, GCs can be repeat-watched (especially when topics are an area of passion) while MOOCs have only served to put us to sleep. We've had very bad experiences with MOOCs. There was only one MOOC DS loved and it was one of the very first Coursera titles on cryptography IIRC (by Dan Boneh). Other MOOCs, even the ones on literature from FutureLearn (he normally loves anything to do with literature) have not been as engaging. His Heroes and Legends GC meanwhile (one of the few DVD GCs we own) have been watched multiple times thanks to Shippey's presentation. And the one on Jazz by Bill Messenger is a winner here. Prof Messenger helped light a fire for jazz in DS. I feel like the GCs help us bring high quality mentors into our living room or car for an affordable price (we always wait for sales/ special promos). We are currently listening to John McWhorter's Story of Human Language in the car and oh my goodness, we love it so much. He is so funny!

 

I know others have had great experiences with MOOCs. I am open to the possibility that we haven't looked long and hard enough to find good MOOCs.

 

ETA: FWIW, we are not into assessment (the way most people use assessment) when using GCs or MOOCs. We usually use multiple resources for depth/ mastery and I rely on discussions with DS to assess how much he understands/ analyzes. For me, I feel like The Teaching Company is trying to bring professors who are not only passionate about their subjects but are also good presenters vs MOOCs where the passion for the subject does not always come through. Granted, there have been a few GCs that we thought not as well done. Once I find a prof we like, I try to find more titles from the same prof if available. So far, our favorites are John McWhorter, Elizabeth Vandiver, Benjamin Schumacher, Thomas Shippey, Bill Messenger, James Hynes, Marc Conner and a few others I am not able to recall atm.

Edited November 25, 2016 by quark

[nobeatenpath]

I have had great experiences with MOOCs that I took for my own education (for example: edx Visualizing Japan and The Challenges of Global Poverty)  the boy did for himself was outstanding (The Rise of Superheroes and Their Impact on Pop Culture). I don't really use the forums and such things, but found the lectures and supplementary material excellent. We have never used the verified option, but one advantage with places like EDx is that, at a cost, you can get verified certification for the work you do.

 

We tried the Great Courses Plus (the unlimited service), but after our free month we were 'kicked out' because we don't live in the US. I had previously bought the videos and hated them - unlike the experience of others I found many of them very static, boring and some of them very tedious. I would argue that the production values and presentation is actually lower than many really good MOOCs.

 

THAT SAID - I have many, many great courses in Audiobook format as I get them relatively cheap with my Audible Annual memberships (As in £4.60 each, that's close to US$5.70). And some of those come with downloadable PDFs of the course material. As much as the boy is a lover of audiobooks he is not so keen on GC lectures, but I find them fantastic, and currently use them as a way of backgrounding information for myself and then using that knowledge to help him (I also listen to some for my own enjoyment). I am  putting together a multi-year literature program and will be relying heavily on some GC, the plan being that for now I will listen to the lectures and then go through the information in the PDFs with him, though as he gets older he can start listening to lectures himself.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Thanks folks.

I guess the benefit of a free MOOC is that if it doesn't suit or isn't the right level, then there's nothing lost except a little time. Great Courses are kind of pricey, especially when you have no idea what you're buying or what level they're aimed at.

 

We've been spoilt by a couple of excellent MOOCs. Intro to Physics from Udacity is ridiculously good and it is very long and self-paced. It's hard to imagine paying for something that can live up to that. But we've had our fair share of MOOCs that we've watched the first one or two lectures and then opted out for one reason or another. Often the level isn't that goldilocks level that my daughter needs. She needs a really good challenge but it can't be overwhelming. It's a hard ask.

 

I just feel like I'm nearing the point where my daughter (an accelerated 10yr old) is going to need more than me just throwing bits and pieces together.

 

I think I'll keep an eye on Great Courses for a sale and then try one with one of the lecturers you folks have mentioned. Elizabeth Vandiver gets a couple of mentions - what is her area of specialty?

[luuknam]

Can you get GreatCoursesPlus where you are?

 

Anyway, Great Courses has been around since before MOOCs. Their pricing is still based on that pre-MOOC pricing.

[quark]

I think I'll keep an eye on Great Courses for a sale and then try one with one of the lecturers you folks have mentioned. Elizabeth Vandiver gets a couple of mentions - what is her area of specialty?

I would get streaming options vs physical products if the GCplus subscription is limited to US.

 

Vandiver's titles: The Iliad, The Odyssey, Aeneid and Herodotus. I believe she did one on Mythology too.

[MistyMountain]

There is a bunch on sale today for Black Friday. 80% off plus free shipping.

[Corraleno]

I think I'll keep an eye on Great Courses for a sale and then try one with one of the lecturers you folks have mentioned. Elizabeth Vandiver gets a couple of mentions - what is her area of specialty?

 

If you don't mind the audio versions (which are usually fine for history and literature courses), you can get them really cheap on Audible. The courses are only one "credit" (varies from ~$10-15, depending on the plan), regardless of size (12 lectures or 48 lectures, all the same price).

 

Vandiver does Classical literature & mythology courses: Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid (12 lectures each), plus Classical Mythology, Greek Tragedy, and Herodotus (24 lectures each). Audio versions are fine for those courses, and she is really really excellent!

 

What era of history are you studying? People can probably recommend courses for that time period that would work for a younger student. For example, if you are studying Ancients, Bob Brier's short course on Egyptian Pharaohs (12 lectures) is very interesting an engaging. (DS watched it in 6th grade and loved it so much he insisted on watching Brier's entire 48 lecture course on the History of Ancient Egypt as well.)

 

Avoid the so-called "High School" courses though — they are not remotely the same level as the other courses.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Corraleno

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Thanks folks. I appreciate your advice.

 

We're currently studying the Manhattan Project and some of the factors related to the tail end of WWII. I expect this will head into some study of the Cold War.

And we've enjoyed Ellen McHenry's Excavating English, so maybe something along those lines would be good.

 

I expect that audio-only may not suit my daughter for these purposes. I'll have a poke around and see what there is that is video.

 

When you suggest to stay clear of the high school courses, it that because the content isn't deep/broad enough for your needs? Or is the overall product sub-standard in comparison to the other courses?

 

[Corraleno]

When you suggest to stay clear of the high school courses, it that because the content isn't deep/broad enough for your needs? Or is the overall product sub-standard in comparison to the other courses?

 

Both. The "high school" history courses are really juvenile, done by a guy who wears costumes and speaks in goofy accents. The content is very shallow and the presentation is beyond corny — I would say it's middle school level at best.  

[MarkT]

The Great Courses lectures were originally designed for the "Adult Learner".  They usually get very good presenters/lecturers from across academia. If purchased on sale, for what you are getting I think they are quite good value. Many of them do not exactly translate to a course you would actually take in college so be aware but some of the MOOCs fall into this category as well.

 

We have also borrowed some Great Courses DVDs from the library.

 

To use the Great Courses lectures for a credit course you would need to add assessments and sometimes assignments. 

 

The MOOC course availability sometimes does not fit your school schedule.

 

I would consider using both on an individual basis.  

Compared to a full online course such as Wilson Hill or PAH they are both inexpensive but you may have to do the extra legwork such as grading and assessments.

[MarkT]

Thanks folks.

1) I guess the benefit of a free MOOC is that if it doesn't suit or isn't the right level, then there's nothing lost except a little time. Great Courses are kind of pricey, especially when you have no idea what you're buying or what level they're aimed at.

 

2) We've been spoilt by a couple of excellent MOOCs. Intro to Physics from Udacity is ridiculously good and it is very long and self-paced. It's hard to imagine paying for something that can live up to that. But we've had our fair share of MOOCs that we've watched the first one or two lectures and then opted out for one reason or another. Often the level isn't that goldilocks level that my daughter needs. She needs a really good challenge but it can't be overwhelming. It's a hard ask.

 

1)  Read the GC reviews and try to find a sample lecture on Youtube before purchasing any GC.  Always buy on sale.

 

2) This professor gives great lectures:

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/physics-and-our-universe-how-it-all-works.html

I really enjoyed them.

   

   I will look at the Udacity site.

 

Is this it?

https://www.udacity.com/course/intro-to-physics--ph100

It only has 7 lessons.

Edited December 4, 2016 by MarkT

[chocolate-chip chooky]

1)  Read the GC reviews and try to find a sample lecture on Youtube before purchasing any GC.  Always buy on sale.

 

2) This professor gives great lectures:

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/physics-and-our-universe-how-it-all-works.html

I really enjoyed them.

   

   I will look at the Udacity site.

 

Is this it?

https://www.udacity.com/course/intro-to-physics--ph100

It only has 7 lessons.

 

Thanks Mark for your advice.

Wow, that link to the physics GC looks amazing. 

Looking at that, our Udacity MOOC is quite bare-bones really and more of a 'taster' of physics - and you've highlighted exactly the difference between a MOOC and a GC - thank you!

 

Yes, the link you included is the MOOC I'm talking about. It's not a comprehensive physics course by any means, but it's been head and shoulders above any other MOOC we've undertaken. Each of those 7 lessons includes many shortish videos with integrated problems to do before you can move on.

 

For my 10yr old's current level, the MOOC is truly perfect (and free!), but I can see that a GC course like the one you listed would be a full course in physics. I'll definitely note that down for later on in her homeschooling. She loves physics, because she can see real applications of maths.

 

Thanks again - much appreciated!

[MarkT]

Thanks Mark for your advice.

Wow, that link to the physics GC looks amazing. 

Looking at that, our Udacity MOOC is quite bare-bones really and more of a 'taster' of physics - and you've highlighted exactly the difference between a MOOC and a GC - thank you!

 

Yes, the link you included is the MOOC I'm talking about. It's not a comprehensive physics course by any means, but it's been head and shoulders above any other MOOC we've undertaken. Each of those 7 lessons includes many shortish videos with integrated problems to do before you can move on.

 

For my 10yr old's current level, the MOOC is truly perfect (and free!), but I can see that a GC course like the one you listed would be a full course in physics. I'll definitely note that down for later on in her homeschooling. She loves physics, because she can see real applications of maths.

 

Thanks again - much appreciated!

Yes the GC Physics course I linked is akin to a college algebra-based physics course - in a few years time your student would enjoy it but by then there may be better MOOCs.

 

I also did this MOOC a few years ago as a quick review:

https://www.open2study.com/courses/basic-physics

 

The lectures were also good and some of the problems I had to work at.

It has a fixed start and end.

 I have not tried this out on my DS 16.

Edited December 6, 2016 by MarkT

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Yes the GC Physics course I linked is akin to a college algebra-based physics course - in a few years time your student would enjoy it but by then there may be better MOOCs.

 

I also did this MOOC a few years ago as a quick review:

https://www.open2study.com/courses/basic-physics

 

The lectures were also good and some of the problems I had to work at.

It has a fixed start and end.

 I have not tried this out on my DS 16.

 

Thanks Mark. That MOOC looks great too. I hadn't looked at Open2study in awhile - thanks for the reminder. That presenter looks like a bit of a dude  :coolgleamA: .

I can see that calculus is listed as a pre-req for that one, though. My 10yr old is pretty capable in maths, but we haven't tackled calculus yet. I'll file this one away for a future year.

 

Thanks again for your help.

[ColleenInWis]

More information about the Udacity Intro to Physics MOOC.  The 7 "lessons" are more like Units, because once you start the course, each of the 7 lessons is broken down into smaller lessons, for a total of 18 lessons.  The course also states an approximate completion time of 2 months. 

 

We are using it to get us started on physics (non-science family here).  We're spending about a week on each of the 7 units by giving it about 3-4 hours a week.  I love the format:  A question is posed related to a scientific problem solved by an historical scientist.  Questions and math problems are posed for the student to complete and answer before continuing the video.  We've had some light-bulb moments as we try to solve the problems.

 

Unit 1 covers an intro to trigonometry (how to find angles and lengths of sides, as Eratosthenes needed to do to compute the circumference of the earth).  We were also guided to find the circumference of the moon, distance of the moon to earth, and distance of the sun to earth.  Unit 2, so far, has taught us the equations for velocity and acceleration, in the context of Galileo's challenging of Aristotle's premise that objects fall at different speeds. 

 

Very well-explained and interesting!  Both of us learn well with this type of course.