Horizons to Saxon

[MotherGoose]

If I'm going to put my second grader into Saxon 5/4 in 4th grade (she will do at least the rest of 2nd in Horizins) would you go ahead and put her into Saxon at 3rd grade, or stick with Horizons. I already have the third grade Horizins TM (which is a very minor consideration) but I have already taught it to older sister and dd might like the color. Older sister switched at 6/5 because she still needed a workbook format, otherwise I would've switched at 5/4. Of course the format of Saxon K-3 is very different from upper grades, so may be I should just stick with Horizons...

[kiana]

I'd be more inclined to stay with the program and format that are working already instead of switching formats when you know you're only going to stay with the new format for one year. 

Edited November 22, 2016 by kiana

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

I would stick with it.  Saxon K-3 are very different in terms of style and authors from Saxon 5/4.  Stick with what you know and then switch once instead of changing things completely twice.  Saxon 3 is teacher scripted lessons with lots of black and white worksheets.  It ramps up fast and builds off the previous books.  Saxon 5/4 is written very differently and has no worksheets.  It's a chapter lesson to read together or independently with 25 problems the student would copy.  Saxon 3 is probably the least favorite Saxon year too.  The 3rd grade year in many math curricula, esp. in Saxon are sort of concluding the four operations before they go onto using the operations in larger problems.  It would be helpful to stay consistent in third grade and be fluent in the four operation's facts before switching curricula.  You may want to do a placement test after Horizons 3.  Saxon does not always progress at the same pace as other curricula, and you may be surprised.

[Ellie]

If I'm going to put my second grader into Saxon 5/4 in 4th grade (she will do at least the rest of 2nd in Horizins) would you go ahead and put her into Saxon at 3rd grade, or stick with Horizons. I already have the third grade Horizins TM (which is a very minor consideration) but I have already taught it to older sister and dd might like the color. Older sister switched at 6/5 because she still needed a workbook format, otherwise I would've switched at 5/4. Of course the format of Saxon K-3 is very different from upper grades, so may be I should just stick with Horizons...

 

I'd say that she should stay with Horizons until she tests into Math 54. There's no need to do Saxon before then.

[Soror]

I switched my daughter after Horizons 3 into Saxon 5-4. It has been a great transition. Saxon has a fair amount of review from where she was in Horizons but she was having difficulty with Horizons in 3rd besides the fact that it took her a bit to get used to the different format. Best of all there had been no years in Math this yearðŸ˜

[mschickie]

We did Horizons from 1-3rd, after that we switched to Saxon.  I love Saxon (older editions) for the middle and upper grades but I do not like their early elementary program which is why we did Horizons.  I will say that before you switch make sure you do the placement test.  We did the test with dd after she completed Horizons 3 and she placed into Saxon 65 not Saxon 54.  It was a fairly easy transition for dd but it does take an adjustment because it is a different format.  Dd is now doing Advanced Math and loves the Saxon program.

[Soror]

We did Horizons from 1-3rd, after that we switched to Saxon.  I love Saxon (older editions) for the middle and upper grades but I do not like their early elementary program which is why we did Horizons.  I will say that before you switch make sure you do the placement test.  We did the test with dd after she completed Horizons 3 and she placed into Saxon 65 not Saxon 54.  It was a fairly easy transition for dd but it does take an adjustment because it is a different format.  Dd is now doing Advanced Math and loves the Saxon program

My daughter probably could have placed into 6/5 too(honestly, I didn't do the placement test- I did preview it extensively) but she had gotten very wore out with Math by the end of Horizons 3 and I wanted to build her confidence. She gets nervous about change anyway, so having a lot of it be review helped. From reading other threads and looking at reviews there is a substantial difference between the 1st and 3rd, the 1st edition being a lot easier, so that is something to keep in mind too. I do like the simplicity of the 1st edition but dd1 has adjusted to the 3rd just fine. I might roll dd2 into the first edition earlir.

[mschickie]

The 1st, 2nd 3rd editions are not easier but instead John Saxon's original program.  The 4th editions have been modified and are moving away from the Saxon philosophy.

 

The using Saxon.com newsletter (http://usingsaxon.com/newsletterpage-2016.php ) suggests these editions:

 

Math 54 (2nd or 3rd Ed): You can use either the hard cover 2nd edition textbook or the newer soft cover 3rd edition as they have identical math content. In fact, they are almost word for word and problem for problem the same textbooks. The page numbers differ because of different graphics and changed page margins, and the newer soft cover 3rd edition homeschool packet has an added solutions manual. However, my experience with that level of mathematics is that most home school educators will not need a solutions manual until they encounter Math 76. If you can acquire a less expensive homeschool kit without the solutions manual, I would recommend acquiring that less expensive set. Calculators should not be used at this level.

 

Math 65 (2nd or 3rd Ed): This book is used following successful completion of the Math 54 textbook. Successful completion is defined as completing the entire Math 54 textbook, doing every problem and every lesson on a daily basis, and taking all of the required tests. To be successful in this textbook, students must have scored eighty or better on the last four or five tests in the Math 54 textbook. As with the Math 54 textbooks, the 2nd edition hard cover book and the newer soft cover 3rd edition have identical math content. The newer 3rd edition series also has a solutions manual, but if you‘re on a tight budget, I do not believe that it is necessary at this level of mathematics either. Calculators should not be used at this level.

 

Math 76 (3rd or 4th Ed): The kingpin book in the Saxon series. This book follows successful completion of the Math 65 textbook. Again, successful completion of Math 65 means completing the entire book as well as all of the tests. To be successful in Math 76, students should have received scores no lower than an eighty on the last four or five tests in the Math 65 course. Either the hard cover 3rd edition or the newer soft cover 4th edition can be used. As with the previous two math courses, there is no difference between the math content of the hard cover 3rd edition and the softcover 4th edition textbooks. I recommend acquiring a copy of the solutions manual as this is a challenging textbook. Students who score eighty-five or better on the last five tests in this level book indicate they are ready to move to Algebra ½, 3rd edition. Student‘s who encounter difficulty in the last part of Math 76, reflected by lower test scores, can easily make up their shortcomings by proceeding to Math 87 rather than Algebra ½. Calculators should not be used at this level.

 

Math 87 (2nd or 3rd Ed): Again, there is little if any difference between the hardcover 2nd edition and the softcover 3rd edition textbooks. Even though the older second edition does not have “with pre-algebra†printed on its cover as the 3rd edition softcover book does, the two editions are identical in math content. Students who successfully complete the entire textbook and score eighty or better on their last five or six tests can skip the Algebra ½ textbook and proceed directly to the Algebra 1, 3rd edition textbook. Both the Math 87 and the Algebra ½ textbooks get the student ready for Algebra 1; however, the Math 87 textbooks start off a bit slower with a bit more review of earlier concepts than does the Algebra ½ book. This enables students who encountered difficulty in Math 76 to review earlier concepts they had difficulty with and to be successful later in the textbook. Students who encounter difficulty in the last part of this book will find that going into Algebra ½ before they move to the Algebra 1 course will strengthen their knowledge and ability of the basics necessary to be successful in the Algebra 1 course. Their frustrations will disappear and they will return to liking mathematics when they do encounter the Algebra 1 course. Calculators should not be used at this level.

 

Algebra ½ (3rd Ed): This is John‘s version of what other publishers title a “Pre-algebra†book. Depending upon the students earlier endeavors, this book follows successful completion of either Math 76 or Math 87 as discussed above. Use the 3rd edition textbook rather than the older 2nd edition as the 3rd edition contains the lesson concept reference numbers which refer the student back to the lesson that introduced the concept of the numbered problem they‘re having trouble with. These concept lesson reference numbers save students hours of time searching through the book for a concept they need to review - but they do not know the name of what they are looking for. From this course through calculus, all of the textbooks have hard covers, and tests occur every week, preferably on a Friday. To be successful in John Saxon‘s Algebra 1 course, the student must complete the entire Algebra ½ textbook, scoring eighty or better on the last five tests of the course. Students who encounter difficulty by time they reach lesson 30 indicate problems related to something that occurred earlier in either Math 76 or Math 87. Parents should seek advice and assistance before proceeding as continuing through the book will generally result in frustration and lower test scores since the material in the book becomes more and more challenging very quickly. Calculators should not be used at this level.

 

Algebra 1 (3rd Ed): I strongly recommend you use the academically stronger 3rd edition textbook. The new owners of the Saxon Publishers (HMHCO) have produced a new fourth edition that does not meet the Saxon methodology. The new fourth edition of Algebra 1 has had all references to geometry removed from it and using it will require also buying a separate geometry book. While the associated solutions manual is an additional expense, I strongly recommend parents acquire it at this level to assist the student when necessary. Depending upon the students earlier successes, this book follows completion of either Math 87 or Algebra ½ as discussed above. Calculators are recommended for use at this level after lesson 30. While lesson 114 of the book contains information about using a graphing calculator, one is not necessary at this level. That lesson was inserted because some state textbook adoption committees wanted math books to reflect the most advanced technology. The only calculator students need from algebra through calculus is an inexpensive scientific calculator that costs about ten dollars at one of the local discount stores. I use a Casio fx260 solar which costs about $9.95 at any Target, K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Radio Shack, etc. If the 3rd edition of Saxon Algebra 1 is used, a separate geometry textbook should not be used between Saxon Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 because the required two semesters of high school geometry concepts will be covered in Saxon Algebra 2 (1st semester) and in the first sixty lessons of the Advanced Mathematics book (2nd semester).

 

Algebra 2 (2nd or 3rd Ed): Either the 2nd or 3rd editions of the Saxon Algebra 2 textbooks are okay to use. Except for the addition of the lesson concept reference numbers in the newer 3rd edition, the two editions are identical. These lesson concept reference numbers save students hours of time searching through the book for a concept they need to review - but they do not know the name of what they are looking for. If you already have the older 2nd edition textbook, and need a solutions manual, you can use a copy of the 3rd edition solution manual which also has solutions to the daily practice problems not in the older 2nd edition solutions manual. Also, the 3rd edition test booklet has the lesson concept reference numbers as well as solutions to each test question – something the 2nd edition test booklet does not have. An inexpensive scientific calculator is all that is needed for this course. Upon successful completion of the entire book, students have also completed the equivalent of the first semester of a regular high school geometry course in addition to the credit for Algebra 2. I strongly recommend you not use the new fourth edition of Algebra 2 for several reasons.

 

FIRST: The fourth edition has had all references to geometry removed from it also requiring the purchase of an additional geometry book.

 

SECOND: The Advanced Mathematics textbook assumes the student has just successfully completed the 2nd or 3rd edition of the Saxon Algebra 2 textbook with their inclusive geometry. If the student took a separate geometry course between the fourth editions of Algebra 1 and Algebra 2, they have not had any exposure to geometry for as much as fifteen months (nine months of school plus two summer breaks). This gap will result in the student encountering extreme difficulty in the Advanced Math textbook.

 

Advanced Mathematics (2nd Ed): Do not use the older first edition, use the 2nd Edition. The lesson concept reference numbers are found in the solutions manual – not in the textbook! Students who attempt this book must have successfully completed all of Saxon Algebra 2 using either the 2nd or 3rd edition textbooks. Upon successful completion of just the first sixty lessons of this textbook, the student will have completed the equivalent of the second semester of a regular high school geometry course. An inexpensive scientific calculator is all that is needed for this course. For more information on how to transcript the course to receive credit for a full year of geometry as well as a semester of trigonometry and a second semester of pre-calculus

 

Calculus: The original 1st edition is still an excellent textbook to master the basics of calculus, but the newer 2nd edition affords students the option to select whether they want to prepare for the AB or BC version of the College Boards Advanced Placement (AP) Program. To prepare for the AB version, students go through lesson 100. To prepare for the BC version, they must complete all 148 lessons of the book. While the 2nd edition reflects use of a graphing calculator, students can easily complete the course using an inexpensive scientific calculator. I recommend that students who use a graphing calculator first attend a course on how to use one before attempting upper level math as they need to concentrate on the math and not on how their fancy calculator works. It is not by accident that the book accompanying the graphing calculator is over a half inch thick.