Barton- Divorcing Reading from Spelling

[frogger]

Without getting into the whys too much (other than this isn't for my son with dyslexia but speech and motor coordination issues. I'm wondering if anyone has successfully done this before, divorced the reading lessons separate from the spelling.

 

It would mean going through the initial teaching twice but the second time it should go quick and we can take longer on the parts that are focused on spelling plus it would work like a review too.

 

I'm hoping to finish level 5 before Christmas because I would have to study a bit to figure out how to do it without messing him up but I would love to hear if someone has managed it. I'd also like to hear from those who regretted trying it.

Edited November 18, 2016 by frogger

[PeterPan]

I'm a little unclear.  You're wanting to focus on the spelling the first time through or the reading?  And what do you mean finish through level 5 before Christmas?  What level are you on now?  You're hoping to get through levels 1-5 for reading with him between now and Christmas?

 

Yes, I separate the components with my ds.  He absolutely was not ready to do them together before.  He has apraxia, ASD, and the SLDs, and he was just not there on any level.  So I agree it can be done.  I'm just confused by your timeline.  And how old is this dc?  See, there are *consequences* to what we've done separating them, and there might be some ways to work around it.  Like I would talk some more.  And even then, it's not really that simple.  You're going to need to do the "spell with tiles" step to keep moving forward with the reading.  That involves a motor component.  We hadn't used the app, but I found the app immensely helpful and really hard for him at the same time.  So what actually happened was we went through level 4 for reading, had to go back to level 2 and move forward with the app, THEN we had to go back a 3rd time and focus on hand writing the words.  I anticipate we'll have to go back through a 4th time to work on TYPING the words.  

 

I'm just saying it's that much of a pain in the butt when you have a child who's not ready to do all the skills together, because there are so many skills in there.  

 

Besides, you don't actually need to get him through B5 to get him reading.  My ds was reading at a 6th grade level by the end of B4.  Granted his vocabulary and IQ are covering; his decoding level is lower.  I'm just saying your goal might not be necessary.  I ordered the Spelling Success games through B8, and he's doing really well with the prefixes game meant for B5-8.  I still ordered B5 to do with him, but my point is your initial goal might not actually require going through B5.  If your goal is reading, you might be happy before that.  It might give you mental permission to slow down and do more components together.

 

If he is of an age where he is developmentally ready to do the skills together, I would consider keeping them together, at least through B3.  If the speech is holding him back, I would considering Rapid Prompting methods or the book someone linked recently on teaching the non-verbal child.  My ds has spelling errors for anything he mis-articulates, so I agree speech will be an issue.

Edited November 18, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[OneStepAtATime]

Frogger, I think I need a little clarification, too.  I know you have been using Barton and were at least in Level 5 with one of your children but I cannot remember, were you using Barton with more than one child?  And one is dyslexic but one isn't?  You repeated Level 4 with one child.  Was that the dyslexic child?

 

As for separating the skills out, how old is the child, and why do you need to separate the skills?  Is it because the child is struggling with sound discrimination?  Coordination issues with writing/manipulating the tiles?

 

I know from OhE's experience that she was able to just focus on reading for a while then went back and did parts of previous levels again (as she mentioned above) to get the spelling component in play when she felt her son was in a better position to handle, it so it can be done.  My concern is that, at least with my kids, the skills were very tied together, very integrated.  Working on the spelling was a drag but it significantly improved the decoding and fluency skills to work through the entire lesson, not separate out the components.  In fact, so much of the lesson is integrated, working with both the reading and the spelling, and helping my kids bring all those components together, that I would not choose to separate them for my own kids.  However, mommy gut is usually a pretty good judge.  If your child needs to separate those components, hopefully OhE can help you.  I don't know of anyone else who has done that.

 

Now, I did have to go at vastly different paces for the site words.  DD is waaaaaayyyyyy ahead of DS on the site words.  Site words are super hard for DS to internalize the spelling for.  DD?  The Barton way just clicked for her.  She couldn't spell ANYTHING to save her life before Barton.  With Barton she is zinging through those list and I have to pause when we don't have the next level available yet.  I don't think you are talking about the site words, though.

 

Have you talked to Susan Barton?  She might be able to help.

Edited November 18, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[PeterPan]

I separated them because with my ds' ASD he had no cognizance of spelling, no clue why he should.  It just wasn't on his radar.  He's super smart, but he just wasn't ready.  But he *was* ready to read.  Once he started noticing spelling and asking and caring, THEN we went back and did those lessons.  

 

I think there could be more/additional valid reasons to separate them.  I'm just saying for us it was developmental.  

 

Fwiw, for my ds hearing the sounds, holding them in your head, thinking through them, getting it on paper (SLD writing) is much harder than the actual spelling.  So you see that split when you are trying to have them write AND spell with the app.  The app goes much more swimmingly than by hand.  And again, when you're saying someone young, functioning maybe at higher level intellectually but way, way behind (2-3 years) developmentally, that's why you get that split.  We just roll with it.  I wanted to let his reading get way ahead and wasn't willing to hold that back.  I felt he needed SOMETHING working really well.  Writing just is a wicked sticky point for him.  I'd rather have my 1st grader reading at a 6th grade level and writing nothing than not writing AND not reading, kwim?  Had to separate them.

 

For us the split worked out really well.  We now have him read aloud the worksheets for his math and LA worksheets, and he can.  There's LOTS of reading on them, not watered down, and he can read them.  And I know that's an issue for kids, like whether they can read the instructions, the math word problems, etc.  For us, that was a happy bonus, that he *is* functional for reading like that.  To sit down and read a chapter book, still hard.  But to do a really nifty math page or logic problems page, he can read the instructions, comprehend, and have a lot of satisfaction in his skills there.

 

The writing is on the wall for him with the writing, sigh.  Between the ADHD and the difficulty, it's just a mess.  I'd probably have to medicate him to get him to slow down enough to get anything of quantity out.  For him to be legible at all he has to slow down a LOT.  He can only maintain that a short while.  37 reasons not to link skills and instruction, kwim?  

Edited November 18, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[frogger]

Sorry Oh Elizabeth. I should have left that part out about the timeline. That is what happens when I post at midnight. We only have a few lessons of level 5 so I was thinking I would give myself some time to sort out a plan. We have been doing the two components together for what seems like forever. :)

[frogger]

Ok, now that I read through the posts again. My child with dyslexia and A.D.D. needs all those components just to be able to do the reading and does better with all the components together and yes sometimes I struggle with wanting to hurry him up but I know he needs to have everything down pat. He is the one for whom I originally purchased Barton.

 

My other child I have chosen to do Barton with for other reasons and he has very mild-moderate speech issues and would struggle (with a few things) with a regular ed class but survive. I probably wouldn't have purchased Barton but already had it and knew how to use it. But he really his speech issues are mild to moderate (he still at 9.5 feels his throat when figuring out how to sound out a b or p for example but he can figure it out once he had the tool for doing so) and though his hand writing is atrocious I don't know that it would qualify for special needs. I'm posting over here because you are all Barton pro.s and the other forum wouldn't have the familiarity.

 

 

He does learn sight words quickly or maybe I should say at a normal pace (I had gotten used to his older brother who really really struggles) and so though I think it will help him to know the rules for spelling and we can do it slowly I do think he would pick up a lot of spelling by seeing the words and would be able to use his memory of how the word looks from reading to his advantage. I really am working on dividing the words up to help his pronunciation. When you have a word like significant he can't always say it unless he breaks it up into his parts and says it slowly and then quicker up to a normal pace.

[frogger]

Ok, so now I'm thinking about that app but I suppose it is only for Ipads of which we have none. The actual physical skill of writing is one of the major difficulties and if we could spell without writing and work on handwriting separately that might help. I need to teach him to type!

[Kanin]

A quick question - do you need to enter a customer code in order to use the Barton app, or can non-Barton owners use it too?

[Timberly]

I found this on the Barton website;

 

Will it work on an Android tablet?

Yes. It works on any 7" and 10" tablet that uses the Android Operating System, version 4.0 or higher. But it will NOT work on a cellphone or a smartphone. And the 7" or 10" tablet must have a camera.

 

Will it work on an iPhone?

No. The screen is much too small.

 

Will it work on an iPad?

Yes. It will work on any iPad as long as it runs operating system 7.0 or higher. Sadly, the first generation iPads cannot run iOS 7.0.

It even works well on an iPad Mini. The app does not take very much memory (only 24 megabytes). Even the most basic of iPads comes with way more memory than that.

 

 

Do I have to be connected to WiFi to use it?

You do have to be connected to WiFi to download the app.

But once it is downloaded, you can use the app without being connected to WiFi or the internet.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Timberly

[Timberly]

A quick question - do you need to enter a customer code in order to use the Barton app, or can non-Barton owners use it too?

I tutor using a different Orton-Gillingham system. I would love to use your tiles in my lessons. Can I use this app?

No. Only tutors who use the Barton Reading & Spelling System are allowed to use this app.

How do you know if I am a legitimate owner of a Barton level?

When you open the app for the first time, you must enter a username and password – which you must obtain from us. You can obtain it by either clicking on this Register Now link, clicking on the Register Now button from within the app, or by calling our office at (408) 559-3652.

Once we verify your ownership of the Barton levels you requested, we will send you an email with your username and password.

If you purchased your Barton level(s) from us, we can quickly and easily verify your ownership.

If you got your Barton levels from a different source, we will send you an email stating what we need in order to verify your ownership.

Once you receive our email with your username and password, start the Barton Tiles App, enter those two items. You only have to enter those two items once.

Then click on the Levels button and buy one or more levels from within the app. Your iTunes account will be charged $ 29.99 per level.

I did not buy my levels from you. Can I still use this app?

Yes. If you got your Barton levels from a different source, we will send you an email stating what we need in order to verify your ownership.

[OneStepAtATime]

Ok, so now I'm thinking about that app but I suppose it is only for Ipads of which we have none. The actual physical skill of writing is one of the major difficulties and if we could spell without writing and work on handwriting separately that might help. I need to teach him to type!

Suggestions for Barton writing lessons based on my personal experience with a dyslexic/dysgraphic son who loathes writing...

 

1.  He does better on a dry erase board.  We use a thin dry erase board (thicker than card stock but thinner than a normal board) and lines line on paper.  The lines are taller than wide rule paper but narrower than kindergarten tablet paper.  It took time but he now writes with a thin dry erase marker, not a fat one.

 

2. The tile app works in some ways and not in others.  He has trouble getting his finger lined up correctly but we do use the app for short lessons.  When he requests doing it with real tiles then we pull out the real tiles.  Sometimes he finds those easier.  

 

3.  I break up the lessons so that we only work a few minutes at a time.  

 

4.  For typing, start now but plan on it taking a long time to get to a level where typing is better than struggling through writing.  Maybe he will pick it up quickly but maybe not.  I recommend trying something like Touch Type Read Spell (cheaper through Homeschool Buyer's co-op).  The lessons pair well with Barton, it does not penalize for time, and the lessons are short.  

 

Do them daily.  Make sure his fingers are placed correctly EVERY TIME.  Make sure the keyboard is at the right height for him so that there is no hand/wrist/shoulder strain.  Be very encouraging of proper finger placement.  He will probably fight you on always hitting the same keys with the same fingers but eventually he will develop muscle and procedural memory and things will start to click.  That process will happen much faster if he is consistent.  Speed will come eventually, with time.  Accuracy is far more important when first learning to type.

[PeterPan]

Frogger, your ds sounds like he has apraxia.  You probably also need evals for SLD writing.