Mandatory Reporting (Child Abuse)...

[creekland]

I know I've heard on here that some wonder why we (collective) require mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse or neglect.  As I do my mandatory training on it (since PA changed their laws recently), I've come across this article describing long term effects and stats:

 

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/long_term_consequences.pdf

 

A few really stand out:

 

"One study using ACE data found that roughly 54 percent of cases of depression and 58 percent of suicide attempts in women were connected to adverse childhood experiences (Felitti & Anda, 2009)."

 

"While child abuse and neglect usually occur within the family, the impact does not end there. Society as a whole pays a price for child abuse and neglect, in terms of both direct and indirect costs."

 

"The lifetime cost of child maltreatment and related fatalities in 1 year totals $124 billion, according to a study funded by the CDC. Child maltreatment is more costly on an annual basis than the two leading health concerns, stroke and type 2 diabetes (Xiangming, Brown, Florence, & Mercy, 2012). On the other hand, programs that prevent maltreatment have shown to be cost effective. The U.S. Triple P System Trial, funded by the CDC, has a benefit/cost ratio of $47 in benefits to society for every $1 in program costs (Mercy, Saul, Turner, & McCarthy, 2011)."

 

"Prevent Child Abuse America estimates that child abuse and neglect prevention strategies can save taxpayers $104 billion each year. According to the Schuyler Center for Analysis and Advocacy (2011), every $1 spent on home visiting yields a $5.70 return on investment in New York, including reduced confirmed reports of abuse, reduced family enrollment in Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, decreased visits to emergency rooms, decreased arrest rates for mothers, and increased monthly earnings. One study found that all eight categories of adverse childhood experiences were associated with an increased likelihood of employment problems, financial problems, and absenteeism (Anda et al., 2004). The authors assert that these long-term costs—to the workforce and to society—are preventable."

 

I know there are many cases where meaningful people report cases that aren't abuse.  Our stats alone (different part of my course) show that roughly 11% end up substantiated and the rest are not (for our state/area anyway).  But it sure is worth it to look out for the youngsters in our society - for them especially (more is in the article about their personal stats if in abusive or neglect situations) - but also for all of us.

[creekland]

This video about the changes in the brain (layman's version) due to trauma is also interesting, esp when some wonder why "those kids" should be treated any differently than others.

 

 

Personally, I'm glad our society is making progress in figuring some of these things out - and figuring out how to do something about them.

[marbel]

I'm a mandated reporter in PA, and do the training for volunteers at my church.  

 

If people don't want to be mandated reporters, they can opt not to participate in activities that require it.  For example, to volunteer with kids in any capacity at my church, people have to do the background checks, take the training, etc.  If people don't want the responsibility of mandated reporter status, they can just not volunteer in those areas.   

 

I don't think I've ever heard/read anyone arguing that child abuse shouldn't be reported and dealt with properly.  

[creekland]

Here's a decent video (5 minutes) about the brain/development issues with neglect - often not seen as abuse by many...

 

[creekland]

I don't think I've ever heard/read anyone arguing that child abuse shouldn't be reported and dealt with properly.  

 

You've never heard the argument that "I'm responsible for my kids.  I don't care what others do to theirs."?  I've heard that quite a bit.

 

Perhaps we'd (collective) all agree about beating a child to death being wrong, but there's far, far more involved (as you know) with child abuse (physical, mental, sexual, neglect).

[marbel]

You've never heard the argument that "I'm responsible for my kids.  I don't care what others do to theirs."?  I've heard that quite a bit.

 

Perhaps we'd (collective) all agree about beating a child to death being wrong, but there's far, far more involved (as you know) with child abuse (physical, mental, sexual, neglect).

 

I have heard people say in a general way that how someone raises their kids is no one else's business, but never to the extent that they would ignore abuse or neglect.  Of course I know people have different ideas of what is abuse and neglect, which is why training is helpful.

 

Someone I know was shocked when they heard that people don't have to take their kids to the doctor for a well-check every year.  That person thought it would be considered neglect if they did not.   Also many people think any form of spanking is abuse, but legally it is not (in PA, anyway, and not to the point that it leaves marks/kid unable to sit, etc.)

 

(Not trying to educate you here, Creekland, just giving examples. :-) ) 

[creekland]

I have heard people say in a general way that how someone raises their kids is no one else's business, but never to the extent that they would ignore abuse or neglect.  Of course I know people have different ideas of what is abuse and neglect, which is why training is helpful.

 

Someone I know was shocked when they heard that people don't have to take their kids to the doctor for a well-check every year.  That person thought it would be considered neglect if they did not.   Also many people think any form of spanking is abuse, but legally it is not (in PA, anyway, and not to the point that it leaves marks/kid unable to sit, etc.)

 

(Not trying to educate you here, Creekland, just giving examples. :-) ) 

 

Well, spanking is considered abuse before age 1... or at least "forcefully slapping" is.

 

But otherwise, yes, it is important to know what is and isn't considered abuse for sure.  One biggie that is NOT is poverty.  Parents can be great (or not) at all income levels.  It's interactions, not material goods that matter.

 

Of course... if there's not enough food, clothing, or shelter, we still report that, but it goes to a division that works to get the family assistance, not "abuse" listing.

[Harriet Vane]

You've never heard the argument that "I'm responsible for my kids.  I don't care what others do to theirs."?  I've heard that quite a bit.

 

Perhaps we'd (collective) all agree about beating a child to death being wrong, but there's far, far more involved (as you know) with child abuse (physical, mental, sexual, neglect).

 

 

Yes.

 

Also, often when people encounter real abuse, they second-guess themselves and rationalize away what they know. Another common response is to decide to "monitor" or "get to know the family" more--in other words, to try to gently investigate. In all such instances, the abuse continues while the do-gooder is second-guessing and hand-wringing about what to do.

 

Most people will never witness real abuse. All we ever get are clues that something might be wrong. Abusers and bullies are really good at hiding their ugliest moments, and amateur investigators never get to see enough evidence to shred every last doubt. 

 

We must trust our instincts. Trust those moments when we know something is wrong and not rationalize them away.

[mom@shiloh]

The downside to mandatory reporting is that it makes it harder for abusers to get help.  They cannot come forward and ask for help because when they do, it has to be reported.  They cannot even ask for or receive counseling.  

[creekland]

Yes.

 

Also, often when people encounter real abuse, they second-guess themselves and rationalize away what they know. Another common response is to decide to "monitor" or "get to know the family" more--in other words, to try to gently investigate. In all such instances, the abuse continues while the do-gooder is second-guessing and hand-wringing about what to do.

 

Most people will never witness real abuse. All we ever get are clues that something might be wrong. Abusers and bullies are really good at hiding their ugliest moments, and amateur investigators never get to see enough evidence to shred every last doubt. 

 

We must trust our instincts. Trust those moments when we know something is wrong and not rationalize them away.

 

Let's see... I can now get up to 5 years and 10K in fines if I don't report something, and that's just if it ends up being not-so-bad (abuse).  Penalties go up from there.  I'm not to even tell my school first.  I have to report it first, and then tell folks higher up at school.

 

No pressure...

 

I suspect there have been too many incidents where higher ups at school have also rationalized away reporting - to the detriment of those being abused.

 

Here's hoping some kids (overall) get helped by it all.  In my 16 years of working at school there have only been a handful of cases I've reported to date, and those were always already known about and being handled as best as they could (legally).  I don't really expect much to change in my life.

[creekland]

The downside to mandatory reporting is that it makes it harder for abusers to get help.  They cannot come forward and ask for help because when they do, it has to be reported.  They cannot even ask for or receive counseling.  

 

If it doesn't go over to criminal cases, getting help is always the first goal (officially) in our state.

[TranquilMind]

You've never heard the argument that "I'm responsible for my kids.  I don't care what others do to theirs."?  I've heard that quite a bit.

 

Perhaps we'd (collective) all agree about beating a child to death being wrong, but there's far, far more involved (as you know) with child abuse (physical, mental, sexual, neglect).

 

NO, not once have I ever heard "I don't care what others do to theirs (their kids)."  Not once in my lifetime. 

I have heard that parenting decisions are no one else's business, but this does not mean they are approving child abuse.  I'm not sure how you are equating these things. 

 

[mom@shiloh]

The downside to mandatory reporting is that it makes it harder for abusers to get help.  They cannot come forward and ask for help because when they do, it has to be reported.  They cannot even ask for or receive counseling.  

 To clarify, I'm talking more about sexual abuse.  It is even difficult for the victims to receive couseling.  If they seek help, it has to be reported.  Many victims are afraid to seek help because they aren't necessarily ready for everything to be out in the open.  

[gardenmom5]

 

Having said that, I think the definition of abuse needs to be very clearly defined among mandated reporters.  Like, clear legal definitions of abuse with the understanding that if the mandated reporter suspects THESE things are going on, that's when they call. 

 

waiting to decide a possible abused child meets the legal definition before reporting might not get a child out of a neglectful home or even help, but that doesn't mean it's not abuse, and it's not damaging to a child.

 

i'd rather people not worry if it meets the legal definition, if you suspect a child is being hurt/bullied (by family! yep. it happens)/ denigrated/neglected/etc. - report it.  considering how much goes on behind closed doors - it's usually going to be much worse that what a mandatory reporter sees.  let someone who can go into the home and do an investigation decide if it's legitimate or not. 

 

eta: a local study found kids in one of our more affluent areas were more likely to meet the definition for neglect - becasue other areas had more after-school support type programs as well as more interventions.

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by gardenmom5

[creekland]

NO, not once have I ever heard "I don't care what others do to theirs (their kids)."  Not once in my lifetime. 

I have heard that parenting decisions are no one else's business, but this does not mean they are approving child abuse.  I'm not sure how you are equating these things. 

 

 

Based upon all our differences and our overall different outlook on life, I'm pretty sure we've had vastly different experiences in our lives.

 

I have literally never heard "I am responsible for my kids.  I don't care what others do to theirs," in regards to child abuse.  I have absolutely heard it in relation to things like what people pack their kids for lunch for school (or have the kids buy lunch) or in relation to things like letting kids stay up late, play outside, etc.  But never ever in relation to abuse...of any type.

 

Having said that, I think the definition of abuse needs to be very clearly defined among mandated reporters.  Like, clear legal definitions of abuse with the understanding that if the mandated reporter suspects THESE things are going on, that's when they call.  I have been a Girl Scout leader, a teacher and a daycare provider, all in the same state, and the ONLY guideline I can ever remember receiving, even while going through first aid/cpr training, is....if you suspect abuse, you have to call.  And the thing about that sort of vague guideline is that it has the potential to ruin lives as much as save them.  I am all for mandated reporting, I just want training to be very specific and clear.  (and just ftr, all of the above things I have done were years ago, things could have change. 

 

I've heard it from some even when it comes to involving kids in the family (illegal drug dealing) business.  There truly are some people who don't care a hoot what others do in their families.

 

PA has a list of what to look for both with injuries and/or behaviors when one is thinking abuse might be happening.  We also had a section during training about cultural differences and not to automatically consider some things outside our culture to be abuse as well as not to automatically consider those "just like us" (or wealthy/famous, etc) to be above abuse possibilities.

 

When in doubt though, we're to report and let the experts decide - any suspicion we're to report whether on the job or off (that latter bit being an interesting part I wasn't aware of before the course).  Most cases that have been reported end up unsubstantiated (regardless of mandatory or "concerned citizen" reporting).  It's still better to err that way than wonder why so many failed a child thinking "it can't be."