Third Presidential Debate Poll

[Christy B]

 

For what it's worth, I still contend that Presidential Smackdown would be a heck of a lot more interesting than these last three debates. And I've modified my view on that: I think that Pit Bull Palin might be able to take all THREE of the rest of 'em. :D

 

A fistfight would indeed be interesting. No way would Palin take 'em. She'd break a nail. Unless she had her rifle hidden in her bodice. :tongue_smilie: My money would be on McCain.

 

Honestly? I'd like to see McCain in charge of the armed forces, Clinton in charge of health care, and Obama could try his hand at everything else.

 

And am I the only person who thinks maybe four years is too long of a term? And that maybe, just maybe, we should limit presidents to one term? I know, I'm arguing with the Constitution here. I'm just thinking aloud. Clearly, what we're doing now isn't working so very well.

[Alaska Mom]

If socialism is what it takes to give everyone access to education, health care, and gainful employment, I'm not opposed.

 

There are very few people in this country being "denied access" to education, health care or gainful employment, the physically or mentally ill are the only ones that honestly come to my mind. Anyone who wants it badly enough will easily find access to all of the above. And if you can't find access on your own, there's a plethora of governmental organizations to help you. Is it perfect, no, definitely not, but the alternative is a much worse scenario.

 

When the "incentive to work" is broken, or not there at all, that is when the serious problems arise, and that is the underlying problem with socialism. Bigger government, less self sufficiency of the masses and massive income redistribution. Sure it sounds great on the surface - "free health care", "no taxes for the little people", just as Obama does, on the surface, but look at the underlying issues of what he's proposing. When people don't have an incentive to work increasing numbers won't. In small business when owners aren't entitled to their earned "reward" for their hard work and risk taking, they won't take those risks, they won't open those businesses that create jobs that pay taxes and fuel the capital economy.

 

No incentive = No workers = No jobs = Bigger government to take care of the employed = Higher taxes on the few businesses that can survive the burden and government "control" = increase in monopolies from lack of competition = fewer consumer choices = inferior products and services = government run everything = Socialism. Sorry, but I don't like the "change" that would come with this scenario.

[Andie]

A fistfight would indeed be interesting. No way would Palin take 'em. She'd break a nail. Unless she had her rifle hidden in her bodice. :tongue_smilie: My money would be on McCain.

 

Honestly? I'd like to see McCain in charge of the armed forces, Clinton in charge of health care, and Obama could try his hand at everything else.

 

And am I the only person who thinks maybe four years is too long of a term? And that maybe, just maybe, we should limit presidents to one term? I know, I'm arguing with the Constitution here. I'm just thinking aloud. Clearly, what we're doing now isn't working so very well.

 

 

But that would mean...more frequent elections. :001_huh: I don't think I could bear it!

[threeturn]

There are very few people in this country being "denied access" to education, health care or gainful employment, the physically or mentally ill are the only ones that honestly come to my mind. Anyone who wants it badly enough will easily find access to all of the above. And if you can't find access on your own, there's a plethora of governmental organizations to help you. Is it perfect, no, definitely not, but the alternative is a much worse scenario.

 

When the "incentive to work" is broken, or not there at all, that is when the serious problems arise, and that is the underlying problem with socialism. Bigger government, less self sufficiency of the masses and massive income redistribution. Sure it sounds great on the surface - "free health care", "no taxes for the little people", just as Obama does, on the surface, but look at the underlying issues of what he's proposing. When people don't have an incentive to work increasing numbers won't. In small business when owners aren't entitled to their earned "reward" for their hard work and risk taking, they won't take those risks, they won't open those businesses that create jobs that pay taxes and fuel the capital economy.

 

No incentive = No workers = No jobs = Bigger government to take care of the employed = Higher taxes on the few businesses that can survive the burden and government "control" = increase in monopolies from lack of competition = fewer consumer choices = inferior products and services = government run everything = Socialism. Sorry, but I don't like the "change" that would come with this scenario.

:iagree: Wonderfully said.

[Spy Car]

All right. If you all want to argue the merits (or demerits) of socialism, please start your own thread. OK?

 

This thread is about the Third Debate. And, who can beat up whom :D

[Vanna]

There are very few people in this country being "denied access" to education, health care or gainful employment, the physically or mentally ill are the only ones that honestly come to my mind. Anyone who wants it badly enough will easily find access to all of the above. And if you can't find access on your own, there's a plethora of governmental organizations to help you. Is it perfect, no, definitely not, but the alternative is a much worse scenario.

 

When the "incentive to work" is broken, or not there at all, that is when the serious problems arise, and that is the underlying problem with socialism. Bigger government, less self sufficiency of the masses and massive income redistribution. Sure it sounds great on the surface - "free health care", "no taxes for the little people", just as Obama does, on the surface, but look at the underlying issues of what he's proposing. When people don't have an incentive to work increasing numbers won't. In small business when owners aren't entitled to their earned "reward" for their hard work and risk taking, they won't take those risks, they won't open those businesses that create jobs that pay taxes and fuel the capital economy.

 

No incentive = No workers = No jobs = Bigger government to take care of the employed = Higher taxes on the few businesses that can survive the burden and government "control" = increase in monopolies from lack of competition = fewer consumer choices = inferior products and services = government run everything = Socialism. Sorry, but I don't like the "change" that would come with this scenario.

 

:iagree:I come from a low-income neighborhood and sadly the sense of "entitlement" (ie., the "government" owes me) was very real there. Why buy the cow, or work for the farmer for that matter, if you get the milk for free?

[RebeccaC]

I haven't been able to vote yet, as I want to cast an "honest" vote and my mind isn't settled.............

 

 

Bill (who is doing his best to judge this outside his "bias")

 

Bill,

 

I enjoy reading your posts! Especially this one and I enjoyed your humorous pic post too. It is a pleasure to discuss stuff with you. I sometimes wish I had your tac :001_huh:

 

Drudge tho had McCain winning no big surprise there tho :D I didn't check Fox on line and maybe someone else did.

 

I did see that Obama is planning his victory party in downtown Chicago parks tho. Where is the cold smilie... I hope it won't be a Dewey Truman type thing for him, Ok a part of me is hoping ;)

 

I really don't like to see folks lose what they have put so much of their hearts and lives into and that goes for both Obama and McCain. Only 3 more weeks and then they can all start on the next election campaign season :rolleyes:

[Spy Car]

Bill,

 

I enjoy reading your posts! Especially this one and I enjoyed your humorous pic post too. It is a pleasure to discuss stuff with you. I sometimes wish I had your tac :001_huh:

 

Drudge tho had McCain winning no big surprise there tho :D I didn't check Fox on line and maybe someone else did.

 

I did see that Obama is planning his victory party in downtown Chicago parks tho. Where is the cold smilie... I hope it won't be a Dewey Truman type thing for him, Ok a part of me is hoping ;)

 

I really don't like to see folks lose what they have put so much of their hearts and lives into and that goes for both Obama and McCain. Only 3 more weeks and then they can all start on the next election campaign season :rolleyes:

 

Hey, thanks Rebecca.

 

You know, I don't think this race is over, not by a long shot.

 

Hey, have you seen the candidates at the Alfred E Smith dinner tonight on You Tube?

 

So funny!!! Really, just what we all needed after so much tension.

 

McCain is hilarious!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAjAtYqczkk McCain (first)

 

 

Obama (second)

[Alaska Mom]

All right. If you all want to argue the merits (or demerits) of socialism, please start your own thread. OK?

 

This thread is about the Third Debate. And, who can beat up whom :D

 

My apology Bill. I thought if it was fair on your thread to call McCain "angry" that it would be fair to call Obama a "socialist". I was just sticking to the facts while deflecting incoming bombs. No hijacking or ill-will intended. ;)

[JudyJudyJudy]

There are very few people in this country being "denied access" to education, health care or gainful employment, the physically or mentally ill are the only ones that honestly come to my mind.

:001_huh: The physically and mentally ill are the ones who need healthcare the most.

 

Anyone who wants it badly enough will easily find access to all of the above.

Wow, I'm glad it's so easy in your neck of the woods. That's not reality for many.

[hsmamainva]

Hey, thanks Rebecca.

 

You know, I don't think this race is over, not by a long shot.

 

Hey, have you seen the candidates at the Alfred E Smith dinner tonight on You Tube?

 

So funny!!! Really, just what we all needed after so much tension.

 

McCain is hilarious!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAjAtYqczkk McCain (first)

 

 

Obama (second)

 

:lol:

 

Thanks, Spy Car!! That's the most hilarious thing I've seen in weeks!!!

[Christy B]

But that would mean...more frequent elections. :001_huh: I don't think I could bear it!

 

I hadn't thought of that. :svengo:

[Alaska Mom]

:001_huh: The physically and mentally ill are the ones who need healthcare the most.

I personally know of no physically or mentally ill person not being taken care of, and if you know of any I would ask you to evaluate why they are not, it's most certainly not the fault of the government or due to lack of programs available to them.

 

 

 

Wow, I'm glad it's so easy in your neck of the woods. That's not reality for many.

 

 

 

Work is there for anyone who wants it and seeks it out. You may not "like" the job, it may not pay what you "think" it should pay, it may bruise your ego a bit and mean being a custodian, or working in a fast food restaurant, or collecting trash, or even picking vegetables in a field, but jobs are there for those who seek them. Are there people who genuinely cannot work, absolutely, and the government does it's job to support them. But somehow in this country we've come to the notion that it's all about us "being happy" all the time, rather than working hard and doing what is "necessary" to survive and support oneself. And the irony is that usually working and being productive and responsible is what will give most people a sense of real happiness. Again, take away the incentive and it all falls away.

 

 

Sorry Bill, I'm just answering a question :D.

[motherofjoy]

I personally know of no physically or mentally ill person not being taken care of, and if you know of any I would ask you to evaluate why they are not, it's most certainly not the fault of the government or due to lack of programs available to them .

 

Check out the homeless population in any large city. Do a simple google search of all the people who have to fight for federal disability - people lost in the health care system. Check out veterans groups, and all the men who proudly served our nation and aren't getting help for their war related illnesses and injuries. We're talking about millions of people who fall through the cracks every single day. To believe otherwise is pure ignorance.

[nukeswife]

 

Work is there for anyone who wants it and seeks it out. You may not "like" the job, it may not pay what you "think" it should pay, it may bruise your ego a bit and mean being a custodian, or working in a fast food restaurant, or collecting trash, or even picking vegetables in a field, but jobs are there for those who seek them. Are there people who genuinely cannot work, absolutely, and the government does it's job to support them. But somehow in this country we've come to the notion that it's all about us "being happy" all the time, rather than working hard and doing what is "necessary" to survive and support oneself. And the irony is that usually working and being productive and responsible is what will give most people a sense of real happiness. Again, take away the incentive and it all falls away.

 

 

Sorry Bill, I'm just answering a question :D.

 

:iagree:, I've think the sense of "Entitlement" is rampant in this country and we need to start knocking it back. I have a few relative that are like that they think that they should just be taken care of, that they shouldn't have to put in an honest days work and should be able to have whatever they want.

[Spy Car]

:lol:

 

Thanks, Spy Car!! That's the most hilarious thing I've seen in weeks!!!

 

Isn't that great? :001_smile:

 

I want to give thanks to Zelda for the thread that brought this to my attention and to Pam who first posted the links.

 

Folks, if you haven't seen the videos I'd urge you to. Both candidates come off as very impressive (and funny) gentlemen. After all the rancor, these moments are good for the soul.

 

Bill

[LisaKinVA]

I can't watch a debate, without my debate years rearing its ugly head.

 

Things I like about how Obama debates. He's organized and methodical (well usually), he numbers his points 1... 2... 3... So, it gives the impression that he's doing a lot -- even if his plan isn't any more detailed than McCain's, it's much easier to make sense of. He's smooth. Although, during an early point of the debate, where Obama seemed really on the defense, I counted 15 umms :D

 

Things I liked about McCain, he brought up some really good issues. His follow-up, though, was usually weak.

 

I called it basically a tie, mainly because I really believe McCain won several key points at the beginning, blew the health care portion entirely, and I thought had an edge on education.

 

When it comes down to it, though, I'm voting for the policies of the man that most closely align with mine -- not a smooth talker.

 

I've debated those smooth talkers, and MAN, could they sell dirty underwear :D

 

Also, that dinner last night was a RIOT. Best television I've seen in a looong time. I LIKED that McCain. Wish we could see more of him!

[Jennifer3141]

I personally know of no physically or mentally ill person not being taken care of, and if you know of any I would ask you to evaluate why they are not, it's most certainly not the fault of the government or due to lack of programs available to them.

 

Then you must live in utopia. Or you pay absolutely no attention to any news from any source. Wow.

 

Jen

[Jenny in Atl]

:iagree:, I've think the sense of "Entitlement" is rampant in this country and we need to start knocking it back. I have a few relative that are like that they think that they should just be taken care of, that they shouldn't have to put in an honest days work and should be able to have whatever they want.

 

Don't forget big business also receives lots of "entitlements". And who do we knock back first? Medicare? I'd like to see you ask your parents or grandparents to give that up. No easy answers.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I personally know of no physically or mentally ill person not being taken care of, and if you know of any I would ask you to evaluate why they are not, it's most certainly not the fault of the government or due to lack of programs available to them.

 

Work is there for anyone who wants it and seeks it out. You may not "like" the job, it may not pay what you "think" it should pay, it may bruise your ego a bit and mean being a custodian, or working in a fast food restaurant, or collecting trash, or even picking vegetables in a field, but jobs are there for those who seek them. Are there people who genuinely cannot work, absolutely, and the government does it's job to support them. But somehow in this country we've come to the notion that it's all about us "being happy" all the time, rather than working hard and doing what is "necessary" to survive and support oneself. And the irony is that usually working and being productive and responsible is what will give most people a sense of real happiness. Again, take away the incentive and it all falls away.

 

 

Sorry Bill, I'm just answering a question :D.

 

Holy cow- come down here to the lower 48. You will find mentally and physically ill people lacking care right here in my town. The stigma some put on mental illness alone has kept even those who can afford it from getting care.

 

As for jobs being available for everyone - that is so just not true. Maybe if you are white, heterosexual, have an address, transportation, etc. etc. etc. The attitude about being happy all the time comes mostly from the HAVES not the HAVE NOTS. I know children for whom happiness means they get to go to school where there is good food to eat. I know children for whom happiness means getting to visit their mom who is dying of AIDS.

 

It is very easy to sit in a comfortable chair and judge.

[Soph the vet]

Isn't that great? :001_smile:

 

I want to give thanks to Zelda for the thread that brought this to my attention and to Pam who first posted the links.

 

Folks, if you haven't seen the videos I'd urge you to. Both candidates come off as very impressive (and funny) gentlemen. After all the rancor, these moments are good for the soul.

 

Bill

 

:lol::lol: Excellent video, especially McCain (Soph, who is biased)

Hey, Bill, I wanted to vote other because I really think had your chicken been at the debate she may have done really well.

[Spy Car]

:lol::lol: Excellent video, especially McCain (Soph, who is biased)

.

 

McCain was funny, he was very very funny.

 

Watching that could help him more than the debate.

 

Should I pull down the link? :tongue_smilie:

[Lisa4917]

Hey, Alaska Mom-I don't know what kind of dream world you're living in, but I sure wish I could live there.

Forgive me; these are paraphrased from your very offensive post:

"Very few people are being denied access to education, health care, or gainful employment" and "Work is there for anyone who wants it" and there are "government organizations to help you gain access".

 

Are you KIDDING me? Let me tell you a story. My husband was laid off a year ago. He is still job hunting. Not because he is above doing ANY job, but because when one is overqualified (as in, former well paid project manager), places like fast food or retail won't hire you. Won't. Hire. You. And no "government organization" can make them.

 

Health care? Well, we can no longer afford the COBRA payment, so we dropped it. Of course, private insurance companies won't TOUCH my husband, because he has epilepsy. So he's basically uninsurable privately. "Luckily" my state has All Kids/Family Share, which is medical insurance through the state. It has a nice, friendly name for the program, but it's Medicaid. MEDICAID. Thank heavens it covers his seizure meds...but of course his neurologist doesn't accept medicaid. Neither does my son's ENT, whom he sees for allergy shots. His allergies are a trigger for migraines, but we can't afford the allergy shots right now. Of course, we also can't find a pediatric neurologist who takes Medicaid to treat the migraines, so I guess my SEVEN YEAR OLD is screwed for at least the next few months. Easy access to health care, my ass. I can't even find a primary care physician who is accepting medicaid patients, let alone a specialist. And nothing makes you feel more like a second class citizen than going to Walgreens to switch over insurance to Medicaid and standing there crying because your blood pressure and migraine meds (mine) aren't covered and I have to play the "let's try this med" game.

 

My husband has spent a YEAR trying to find a job, any job, to provide for his family. He's just found a free-lance job, for at least a few months, but no benefits, of course. My daughter, who was home-schooled last year, went back to school this year so I could go to work. No benefits, of course, but it buys groceries. The mortgage is another story. What government organization is going to help us if we lose our house, hmmm?

 

So get off your high horse and don't throw around statements about how health care and jobs are available for ANYONE. They're not. We were a solid middle-class family and now I'm watching the mail for my medicaid card each month, and hoping like hell nobody gets sick. It's happening to people all over the place; you just don't realize it because on the outside everyone puts a good front. But it's happening, and it's bad.

 

Lisa

[Anna]

My husband was laid off a year ago. He is still job hunting. Not because he is above doing ANY job, but because when one is overqualified (as in, former well paid project manager), places like fast food or retail won't hire you. Won't. Hire. You. And no "government organization" can make them.

 

Has your dh put in applications at all the temp agencies in your area? Many times a person gets hired for a temp job and if they do well, they get hired permanently. Some folks don't realize how easy it is to slide into a job starting from a temp agency.

 

Just wanted to mention that to you.

[laylamcb]

Lisa: No words. Just :grouphug:.

[RebeccaC]

Hey, thanks Rebecca.

 

You know, I don't think this race is over, not by a long shot.

 

Hey, have you seen the candidates at the Alfred E Smith dinner tonight on You Tube?

 

So funny!!! Really, just what we all needed after so much tension.

 

McCain is hilarious!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAjAtYqczkk McCain (first)

 

 

Obama (second)

 

Hey Bill,

 

Thanks for the links I have been gone most of the day but I did see short clips from it and am looking forward to viewing these links. The clips I saw I thought he was very funny! Heaven knows we all need a good laugh :lol:

[JudyJudyJudy]

.

Edited October 18, 2008 by JudyJudyJudy
I was asked to edit.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Hey, Alaska Mom-I don't know what kind of dream world you're living in, but I sure wish I could live there.

Forgive me; these are paraphrased from your very offensive post:

"Very few people are being denied access to education, health care, or gainful employment" and "Work is there for anyone who wants it" and there are "government organizations to help you gain access".

 

Are you KIDDING me? Let me tell you a story. My husband was laid off a year ago. He is still job hunting. Not because he is above doing ANY job, but because when one is overqualified (as in, former well paid project manager), places like fast food or retail won't hire you. Won't. Hire. You. And no "government organization" can make them.

 

Health care? Well, we can no longer afford the COBRA payment, so we dropped it. Of course, private insurance companies won't TOUCH my husband, because he has epilepsy. So he's basically uninsurable privately. "Luckily" my state has All Kids/Family Share, which is medical insurance through the state. It has a nice, friendly name for the program, but it's Medicaid. MEDICAID. Thank heavens it covers his seizure meds...but of course his neurologist doesn't accept medicaid. Neither does my son's ENT, whom he sees for allergy shots. His allergies are a trigger for migraines, but we can't afford the allergy shots right now. Of course, we also can't find a pediatric neurologist who takes Medicaid to treat the migraines, so I guess my SEVEN YEAR OLD is screwed for at least the next few months. Easy access to health care, my ass. I can't even find a primary care physician who is accepting medicaid patients, let alone a specialist. And nothing makes you feel more like a second class citizen than going to Walgreens to switch over insurance to Medicaid and standing there crying because your blood pressure and migraine meds (mine) aren't covered and I have to play the "let's try this med" game.

 

My husband has spent a YEAR trying to find a job, any job, to provide for his family. He's just found a free-lance job, for at least a few months, but no benefits, of course. My daughter, who was home-schooled last year, went back to school this year so I could go to work. No benefits, of course, but it buys groceries. The mortgage is another story. What government organization is going to help us if we lose our house, hmmm?

 

So get off your high horse and don't throw around statements about how health care and jobs are available for ANYONE. They're not. We were a solid middle-class family and now I'm watching the mail for my medicaid card each month, and hoping like hell nobody gets sick. It's happening to people all over the place; you just don't realize it because on the outside everyone puts a good front. But it's happening, and it's bad.

 

Lisa

I'm so very sorry that you and your family are going through this. :grouphug:

[Alaska Mom]

My sincere apology for offending you Lisa and anyone else with my post. It was a very unthoughtful post. My heart goes to you. I hope you will accept my full apology.

 

I've tried though out the afternoon to put into words where I was coming from, but I'm too fearful to express any attempt that I might further offend you or someone else. My intentions are solely to confront the willingness (and eagerness) to embrace an outright socialist government as a "better" option than the one we have. I love this country deeply and I have been in your shoes. I am not wealthy and my family like yours in medically uninsured, I know that fear you have. Our system is flawed that is for sure. I don't have the answer.

 

I apologize fully for my post.

[laylamcb]

Sincere post, Alaska Mom, and very eloquent. Kudos to you! :001_smile:

[Lisa4917]

I'm sorry, Alaska Mom. I went off on a tangent and a rant and you were the unfortunate target. I just get so frustrated. I've had friends IRL tell me, "He should just go work at Home Depot" not understanding that he would LOVE to do that, except they won't hire him. People do not understand that people on medicaid, people who are "the working poor"; it's not who you (not YOU; people in general) think. It's your neighbors, it's the mom in the preschool line, it's the kid on your daughter's basketball team. (Sports paid for by a generous aunt and uncle; so the kids don't miss out). But you'd never know it, because we all put on our "we're a normal family" face and just try to get through the day.

Our system is greatly flawed. I don't know how to fix it, but I know that this isn't how things should be.

I appreciate your apology, and again, I'm sorry you became my target for all the people out there who just. don't. get. it. Best wishes to you, too, and crossing our fingers for a healthy winter!

[Jenny in Atl]

My sincere apology for offending you Lisa and anyone else with my post. It was a very unthoughtful post. My heart goes to you. I hope you will accept my full apology.

 

I've tried though out the afternoon to put into words where I was coming from, but I'm too fearful to express any attempt that I might further offend you or someone else. My intentions are solely to confront the willingness (and eagerness) to embrace an outright socialist government as a "better" option than the one we have. I love this country deeply and I have been in your shoes. I am not wealthy and my family like yours in medically uninsured, I know that fear you have. Our system is flawed that is for sure. I don't have the answer.

 

I apologize fully for my post.

 

As a third party supporter, I don't think you need to fear that the US will ever become a totally socialist country. None of the European countries who are doing well are totally socialist (Ireland, Norway, Denmark). They are a combination, as is Japan, New Zealand, England, Germany, Australia, Canada, etc. Even if you look at Obama's Economic team, it's full of free market enthusiasts.

 

My dh and I are also small business owners and have paid a ton in taxes over the last 12 years. We have also been virtually bankrupted by medical costs. Yes, our system is completely out of wack and families who work hard, who love this country, love homeschooling, and distrust big government are not scared to death of Obama. I don't fear either Mccain or Obama.. I do fear how uneducated and uninvolved most Americans are in the whole process. But then again, maybe thats a good thing. :confused:

[Alaska Mom]

Sincere post, Alaska Mom, and very eloquent. Kudos to you! :001_smile:

 

Thank you Leila for what you posted publicly. It means more than I can say to know my apology was acknowledged as sincere and accepted by those I offended. I was really hurting knowing I hurt others. I sent pm's to a few of those I offended and they've all accepted my apology. My post was simply wrong. I typed it out too fast and in anger from people attacking our country. I just grabbed at the first issues that someone threw out to me and thoughtlessly started typing away. I am sincere in saying what I wrote in that post was completely wrong. Thank you again for your kind words.