Homeschool/Public School Integration

[sweetpea3829]

Last week, I posted a topic asking for information/experiences with integrating homeschoolers into the public school in the state of NY, in anticipation of a meeting I had scheduled with our District's Superintendent.  I received some good information and wanted to update, plus I figured I'd open this up to folks from other states.

 

 

My husband and I met with our Superintendent yesterday morning.  Our primary purposes for this meeting were to find out exactly what our district allows homeschoolers to participate in at the public school, to understand why the Board of Education in our district decided on these restrictions/rules, and to get an idea of how much support we might have in making some changes.

 

Ultimately, my goal is that homeschooled children within our community will be able to access the public school for art and music at all levels, AP classes, band, chorus, and elective courses in high school.  The bottom line is that this is about providing as much opportunity to our homeschooled kids that public schooled kids have.  Not all of us can afford to provide paid for lessons, and those of us schooling in rural areas have very limited access to free/affordable programs, or even other homeschool groups where these programs may be part of a co-op.  

 

There are some major roadblocks, the biggest being our state's Homeschool Regulations with explicitly prohibit part-time enrollment (thus, making AP classes and elective courses a bit more tricky).  However there are some districts within our state that DO allow some level of integration, utilizing some of the Regulation's gray areas that give Districts flexibility in determining just how much homeschoolers are allowed to participate.  

 

 

Our meeting with the Superintendent went well!  He was courteous, open to our ideas and suggestions and interested in seeing how other districts have successfully integrated homeschoolers into their programs.  He indicated that our Disctrict's policies have been what they are for years and that nobody has really challenged them.  Without a challenge to them, there was never any reason to alter them.  

 

We concluded our meeting with him promising that he would speak with a neighboring district that supposedly allows a higher level of integration, and that he would also speak to the Board of Education to try and get an idea how they might feel towards opening up the restrictions we have in place.  We left feeling positive about our meeting and hopeful that perhaps this might be the start of some changes.

 

However we still have a lot to consider, some issues to address and people to convince.  

 

Several folks commented on my last thread and I appreciate your information!  I would love more information from others, both within NY and outside of NY.  Ideas for how this works!  Examples, etc.  If you are in NY, it would be great if you can tell me which school district so that we can contact them and see exactly what they are doing and how.  

 

I feel as though, if we can provide a lot of examples to our Superintendent, and our Board, we'll have a better chance of convincing them that this can be done.  

 

Please, chime in!  Thanks so much for any help, advice, connections, etc. you can give!  

 

 

[maize]

Not personal experience but from observation, of the states I have been in Utah has the most flexible homeschool/public school interface. Kids can take as many or as few classes at the public school as they want, and can dual enroll between a private school or a charter school and a district school. 

 

A large percentage, I suspect a majority, of homeschooled high schoolers take advantage of this policy at some point. I don't know a lot of families who do partial school enrollment in elementary as the schedules do not so easily lend themselves to taking just a class or two, but there are families who send a child just for music or p.e. etc. 

 

All extracurriculars are also open to homeschoolers.

 

In my opinion, this is a major plus for the state as they are invested in providing the best educational opportunities possible to all students.

[EKS]

Washington also allows homeschoolers to participate as much or as little in public school programs (including extracurriculars) as they wish.

 

Honestly, I think the key is going to be how the funding works in your state.  If there is a mechanism for schools to be funded for part time students that isn't too hard on administration, it is far more likely to work.

[8filltheheart]

Just playing devil's advocate here bc this is something from your side of the process you might not have contemplated, but how does taking classes at the ps incorporate into the reasons you homeschool and why not just enroll in school?

 

One question that many homeschooled college applicants have to answer is why did you choose to homeschool. Make sure that your children are able to articulate why some classes are through the ps and some aren't and why that was the best academic choice for them.

[AmandaVT]

Here's Vermont's statue:

 

http://education.vermont.gov/documents/EDU-Integration_of_Home_Study_Students_Into_Public_Schools.pdf

[maize]

Just playing devil's advocate here bc this is something from your side of the process you might not have contemplated, but how does taking classes at the ps incorporate into the reasons you homeschool and why not just enroll in school?

 

One question that many homeschooled college applicants have to answer is why did you choose to homeschool. Make sure that your children are able to articulate why some classes are through the ps and some aren't and why that was the best academic choice for them.

 

That's a good thing to keep in mind.

 

I homeschool primarily for the flexibility to choose the most appropriate educational path for each child, so partial or even full time public school absolutely fits into my philosophy of education. Next year I may have one child in school full time to take advantage of a language immersion program I cannot provide at home, and I may have another child taking just one or two classes at a public school. Or not, we haven't quite decided yet. If the immersion experience goes well I may do mixed days in the future--with the child enrolled just for the foreign language immersion part of the day and homeschooling for the rest--I know a family who were able to make that work. Or we may find that the program is not a good fit after all and go back to full time homeschooling.

[athomeontheprairie]

In my district, a homeschool student can join in fairly easy. However, unless they are enrolled in core classes they can't compete. So if a student is enrolled in band and only in band, they perform for the community show but not at the state competition.

They can't compete on sports teams either.

Classe like band, forensics, drama, orchestra, are open-but they can't go on the trips that are a part of the class.

[sweetpea3829]

Not personal experience but from observation, of the states I have been in Utah has the most flexible homeschool/public school interface. Kids can take as many or as few classes at the public school as they want, and can dual enroll between a private school or a charter school and a district school. 

 

A large percentage, I suspect a majority, of homeschooled high schoolers take advantage of this policy at some point. I don't know a lot of families who do partial school enrollment in elementary as the schedules do not so easily lend themselves to taking just a class or two, but there are families who send a child just for music or p.e. etc. 

 

All extracurriculars are also open to homeschoolers.

 

In my opinion, this is a major plus for the state as they are invested in providing the best educational opportunities possible to all students.

 

I totally agree.  In an ideal world, the community would care about providing the best opportunities to all children, regardless of their choice of academic path.  It's a point I hope to stress.

 

Man though...when I hear about other states where homeschoolers have as much or as little access as they want, I can't help but be jealous.  I would be curious how Utah works it out, how they overcome some of the roadblocks, how they deal with potential legal issues, registration issues, funding issues, class size issues, etc.  

[sweetpea3829]

Washington also allows homeschoolers to participate as much or as little in public school programs (including extracurriculars) as they wish.

 

Honestly, I think the key is going to be how the funding works in your state.  If there is a mechanism for schools to be funded for part time students that isn't too hard on administration, it is far more likely to work.

 

Yeah, I have a feeling it's going to boil down to money as well.  The superintendent quickly pointed out that opening the public school to homeschoolers would necessitate they also do the same for the two private schools in our community.  Honestly, I'm not so sure that's really an issue...one of the schools only goes to 5th grade and they cover art, music, PE, etc.  There aren't any electives in elementary school so that only leaves us with the one christian private school.  At the end of the day, there aren't that many kids that attend there.  They already cover art, music, PE, etc.  The only thing I could see as being appealing to their students would be AP courses in high school.

 

Still though...if a large number of homeschoolers suddenly decide they all want to take art classes at the PS, there could potentially be an issue with class size, etc.  I think it's a minimal concern, however.  Then again, if the school is not receiving funding for homeschooled kids, there again could be an issue.  

 

But I don't think it HAS to be.  

 

 

Here's Vermont's statue:

 

http://education.vermont.gov/documents/EDU-Integration_of_Home_Study_Students_Into_Public_Schools.pdf

Thank you for linking this!  

[sweetpea3829]

Just playing devil's advocate here bc this is something from your side of the process you might not have contemplated, but how does taking classes at the ps incorporate into the reasons you homeschool and why not just enroll in school?

 

One question that many homeschooled college applicants have to answer is why did you choose to homeschool. Make sure that your children are able to articulate why some classes are through the ps and some aren't and why that was the best academic choice for them.

 

This is a great point.  Actually, it was something that the Super brought up, though not in so many words.  He hinted around the idea that, "If you have made the choice to homeschool, why would you want to utilize the PS anyways?"

 

I think that kind of stems from perhaps not understanding all of the reasons people homeschool.  One thing he did point out was that homeschooled kids would be coming into an environment that is drastically different from the morals, values, behavior expectations at home.  

 

I think that's a bit of a misnomer.  Certainly, there are many families for which this is true...but not all families that homeschool have strict expectations for their children's behavior, etc.  Especially with the rise of non-religious folks that are choosing to homeschool...no longer is homeschooling primarily the long-skirt crowd, kwim?  (FWIW, we are actually part of the long-skirt crowd...lol.  Though I wear pants whenever I feel like it).  That isn't to say that only the religious folks have behavior standards, but just that there is a wider variety of families that are choosing to homeschool.  So it isn't necessarily true that a homeschooled kid will be facing different values, etc., for the first time when they enter a classroom.  

 

 

Anyways, I explained to him much of what I've explained here.  And I pointed out to him that part of the reason we WANT to integrate is because we don't want our kids so sheltered that, when they are young adults leaving the home, they are only then experiencing the rest of the world.  And for that matter, our kids integrate with PS kids in a variety of other ways.  Whether it's on the baseball field, or at the park, or at karate, camp, etc.  

 

 

I also pointed out to him that we have chosen to homeschool not because we are anti-homeschool...but as maize pointed out, we wanted the flexibility to modify our children's educational approach to fit THEIR needs, especially in the younger years.  But that as they grow older, and get closer to college age, we recognize that they must learn to take classes, etc.  

 

At the end of the day, I want what's BEST for my kids.  The best that I can get for them.  That may mean acknowledging that I cannot "do" art with them, because I'm awful at it.  It means acknowledging that my student will be better off learning Calculus in a classroom.  I don't think the best educational approach has to be "either or".  A combination of approaches, ultimately, will be best to meet the variety of needs each student has.  

 

 

Thanks for bringing this up, though.  I need to consider all of these aspects...potential roadblocks that may arise, etc.  

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Sweetpea3829

[8filltheheart]

Sweet pea, both you and Maize responded to my post in terms of why you have chosen homeschooling and why you would want to incorporate ps options, but that really misses the point in what I posted. My point was that your children will need to be able to articulate why they, not you, chose homeschooling. My post wasn't meant for you to post a justification as to why you would opt to use a ps, but to make you aware that your children may be put in the position where they may need to be able to articulate why they opted for the educational path they took in high school.

 

Fwiw, the reasons you stated in term so behaviors and beliefs would never have even entered my mind. ;) Our reasons for homeschooling are more complex and have more to do with academics and methodology. It is a philosophical distinction that would make me opt not to take the path you are describing, but that is neither here nor there bc it is irrelevant to your thread and not why I posted.

 

Your children may very well be in a situation where they will have to explain to an admissions officer why calculus and history at the ps were chosen, but literature and science were not. It really isn't as easily articulated as wanting to individualize their courses, bc most ps are going to be very inflexible about what is taken when. So if they don't let 9th graders take AP history, they are not going to let a homeschooled 9th grader take AP history. So the courses will be pretty much lock step with all of the ps students. If the reason is to be able to keep some classes flexible, than your students need to know how to explain why.

 

One of the main questions asked by colleges is what did you do to make the most of the opportunities that homeschooling gave you. If being able to go back and forth between ps and homeschool courses is the what, they will need to be able to flesh out the whys behind that.

 

No judgment one way or the other. Just encouraging you to help your children be able to explain the choices (bc the response you got from the administrator will be echoed by adcoms.)

Edited July 15, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[sweetpea3829]

Sweet pea, both you and Maize responded to my post in terms of why you have chosen homeschooling and why you would want to incorporate ps options, but that really misses the point in what I posted. My point was that your children will need to be able to articulate why they, not you, chose homeschooling. My post wasn't meant for you to post a justification as to why you would opt to use a ps, but to make you aware that your children may be put in the position where they may need to be able to articulate why they opted for the educational path they took in high school.

 

Fwiw, the reasons you stated in term so behaviors and beliefs would never have even entered my mind. ;) Our reasons for homeschooling are more complex and have more to do with academics and methodology. It is a philosophical distinction that would make me opt not to take the path you are describing, but that is neither here nor there bc it is irrelevant to your thread and not why I posted.

 

Your children may very well be in a situation where they will have to explain to an admissions officer why calculus and history at the ps were chosen, but literature and science were not. It really isn't as easily articulated as wanting to individualize their courses, bc most ps are going to be very inflexible about what is taken when. So if they don't let 9th graders take AP history, they are not going to let a homeschooled 9th grader take AP history. So the courses will be pretty much lock step with all of the ps students. If the reason is to be able to keep some classes flexible, than your students need to know how to explain why.

 

One of the main questions asked by colleges is what did you do to make the most of the opportunities that homeschooling gave you. If being able to go back and forth between ps and homeschool courses is the what, they will need to be able to flesh out the whys behind that.

 

No judgment one way or the other. Just encouraging you to help your children be able to explain the choices (bc the response you got from the administrator will be echoed by adcoms.)

 

 

It's a point well taken, and while I did catch the distinction in your original post about the student him/herself needing to be able to explain to an admissions advisor their reasons for homeschooling, I hadn't given much thought to that aspect of it.  

 

Honestly, it hadn't occurred to me, prior to your original post, that an admissions counselor would even ask that question.  I guess I assumed they would presume that the decision was primarily the parents.  That said, I think it's a good question and one that kind of spins me on my ear a bit...

 

My students need to be a huge part of the decisions.  With how young they are, I haven't given much thought to that.  I'm over here planning out their futures, without really stopping and considering that THEY may have different ideas as they begin to hit middle/high school age.  

 

So thanks, for that...for putting that bug in my ear.  It's something I needed to hear.  ;-)  

[sweetpea3829]

Also, fwiw, I totally agree with you on the reasons for homeschooling.  YES, the behavioral environment/socialization is a part of why we homeschool.  YES, part of why he homeschool is because of the flexibility in meeting our student's specific needs.  But...like you, we have a difference of opinion on methodology.  But that's a whole other can of worms....lol.