sometimes I HATE aspergers

[flyingiguana]

 

 

I do think some of it ended up being the kind f thing that ends up being directed only at mom, which was very heartening. I think if he'd done it to someone else he MIGHT have apologized, and I think now that I explained it, even though he kept insisting I was wrong (probably to save face) he will remember it when it is someone other than me. 

 

For years, most of my daughter's bad behavior was directed mainly at my husband.  It was incredibly damaging.  No matter how much I tried not to accept it, she still tried to get me in cahoots with her against him.  He knew it.  He knew she wanted him out of the family.  And he started to believe the rest of us wanted him gone too.

 

I believe what finally caused her to walk away was that she at long last became aware that I was NOT in cahoots with her against my husband and never had been.  At that point she was trying to get me ally with her against her siblings too.  That must have made made it more obvious to her that she was not my one and only and that I was going to stand up for people I cared about.

 

She is now in therapy where she is apparently getting her therapist to agree with her that her family caused all her issues. (Yes, unfortunately, this is another thing we know).  Her spouse is attending the therapy sessions with her so she can push her own version of things.  The spouse is even more manipulative than our daughter.  And she's been in therapy a very long time and has learned how to manipulate therapists.  Or at least shop around until she finds one who isn't strong enough to resist.

 

So I am a little leery of therapy as a group family thing.  The therapist can also take sides.  The therapist needs to be VERY careful with these sorts of personalities.  They can get sucked in the same as helpful family members can.

 

Sometimes the best thing is just distance, if you're the healthy one.  It is not, apparently, as good for the not-healthy one who was using you as a scapegoat for every little problem in their life. What are they supposed to do if there's no longer a reaction?

[Anne in CA]

For years, most of my daughter's bad behavior was directed mainly at my husband.  It was incredibly damaging.  No matter how much I tried not to accept it, she still tried to get me in cahoots with her against him.  He knew it.  He knew she wanted him out of the family.  And he started to believe the rest of us wanted him gone too.

 

I believe what finally caused her to walk away was that she at long last became aware that I was NOT in cahoots with her against my husband and never had been.  At that point she was trying to get me ally with her against her siblings too.  That must have made made it more obvious to her that she was not my one and only and that I was going to stand up for people I cared about.

 

She is now in therapy where she is apparently getting her therapist to agree with her that her family caused all her issues. (Yes, unfortunately, this is another thing we know).  Her spouse is attending the therapy sessions with her so she can push her own version of things.  The spouse is even more manipulative than our daughter.  And she's been in therapy a very long time and has learned how to manipulate therapists.  Or at least shop around until she finds one who isn't strong enough to resist.

 

So I am a little leery of therapy as a group family thing.  The therapist can also take sides.  The therapist needs to be VERY careful with these sorts of personalities.  They can get sucked in the same as helpful family members can.

 

Sometimes the best thing is just distance, if you're the healthy one.  It is not, apparently, as good for the not-healthy one who was using you as a scapegoat for every little problem in their life. What are they supposed to do if there's no longer a reaction?

Uggghhh. I am so sorry for you. Our oldest (my step dd, but I raised her) caused a lot of division in our family, but as she got older she mostly focused on getting her siblings against each other because she couldn't divide and conquer with her father and I. Once she was an adult he felt free to choose me, so that deflated a lot of her energy. She did cause my youngest child a lot of grief and my youngest is in therapy now (unfortunately not with a great therapist). My ds can see through her now that he's older and if my youngest can see through her she is really going to be alone in the world.

 

My dd's mother was like this. She needed to be the only person in everyone's life, so I know where dd got it. What dd doesn't realize is that her birth mother is 400lb, on SSI, completely unloved and alone now. Her other children besides dd are in and out of jail and unemployable. Manipulating people leaves you very marginalized later in life. People do see through you as you get older. When you are younger people give you the benefit of the doubt and try to help you. When you hit about 25 and you're still whining about childhood issues, people lose patience. As the manipulator gets older people know that they are not defenseless children, that they are making their own decisions, and won't listen anymore. 

[ktgrok]

 

So you may be left with getting through the day to day stuff as best you can until they're out of your life.  Which is a terribly sad thing.

 

However, I will say that family life here is a LOT calmer.  We have discovered that we are not the horrible people our daughter made us -- or the horrible people she told us we were even when we WEREN'T arguing.  I have my husband back and it turns out he actually likes me.  Who knew?

 

This is supposed to be supportive, but I suspect it won't come across that way.  Perhaps it's words of wisdom for when you aren't having to deal with this day in and day out.  Maybe I'm just talking to myself from 5 years ago and assuring me it will eventually be ok.  For me.  And the rest of my family.  Even if the daughter who caused all this trouble is still suffering and there is nothing I can do for her.

 

I hate to admit it, but I honestly am very excited for when he moves out. I think our relationship will be much better then. I really do. Not because I don't love him, but because for whatever reason he just will be better when he and I don't live together. 

 

Sometimes I even wonder if there is some RAD there, from the year he spent as a preschooler at home all day with his Dad, who was in bed all day complaining of migraines,and would send him to the other room to watch TV. All day. I'd come home and my 4 yr old had eaten nothing but potato chips all day, and basically fended for himself. (and yet my ex was surprised when I had enough of that and asked for a divorce!)

[PeterPan]

Flyingiguana, your interpretation of her thoughts is pretty complex.  It might be that she means exactly what she says, that she just wants her stuff back.  You might just do it and let it drop.  Is there some *harm* to doing this?  Or is it more that it doesn't give you a chance to meet your own emotional needs?  

 

I think unconditional love is something that is very hard to give, and wanting respect is still a condition.  I'm not saying how you should feel, just pointing out what you're saying.  We not only have spectrum in my family but some other significantly challenging diagnoses, and I can tell you that it works out best to accept people exactly as they are and ask for nothing more.  When you ask for more, you're disappointed.  And maybe that's a really b&w way of seeing it, but you might try.  That is, of course, probably the only frame of mind she knows.  

 

To me it says something that she didn't think you'd have thrown her stuff away.  That reflects some trust on her part that you still care about her.  That should be comforting.  You can find peace that she has a relationship right now that seems to work for her.  No matter WHAT she has told her friends, she's surrounded by new people who care about her and who are able to tolerate her behaviors.  Those are lots of good things, and as a mother that can make you feel better.  And meeting her friends might be more informative than meeting her right now.  They might have something they want to say or they might let things slip out.  It might actually be really interesting.  I would encourage you to roll with it.

 

:grouphug:

[PeterPan]

As for what the OP is going through now, my take on all this is that you can't fix them.  You can't even fix your relationship with them.  They have to be willing too.  And for some of these people, no matter how much we want to love them because they're our children, it just may not happen. 

 

I wouldn't think of consequences as punishment to make him better.  Because it isn't going to work. He's decided you are his punching bag.  It won't matter if you don't let him do that.  He'll then be angry that you didn't allow it.  He will win no matter what.  The only thing he will allow you to feel about him is anger.  But that's not your fault.

 

So you may be left with getting through the day to day stuff as best you can until they're out of your life.  Which is a terribly sad thing.

 

However, I will say that family life here is a LOT calmer.  We have discovered that we are not the horrible people our daughter made us -- or the horrible people she told us we were even when we WEREN'T arguing.  I have my husband back and it turns out he actually likes me.  Who knew?

 

This is supposed to be supportive, but I suspect it won't come across that way.  Perhaps it's words of wisdom for when you aren't having to deal with this day in and day out.  Maybe I'm just talking to myself from 5 years ago and assuring me it will eventually be ok.  For me.  And the rest of my family.  Even if the daughter who caused all this trouble is still suffering and there is nothing I can do for her.

 

The bolded is SO real.

 

Edited July 5, 2016 by OhElizabeth