Catch-up math for a 4th grader: Abeka 3 or Saxon 54?

[partyvan6]

Hi, long time lurker, first time poster. ;)

 

My DS (9) is joining a homeschool co-op this fall that uses Abeka for 3rd grade and Saxon for 4th. He is a rising fourth grader. In the 2014-15 school year (2nd grade), we used Singapore 2B/3A at home. In the 2015-16 school year (3rd grade), he was at a private school. His entrance exam for the co-op suggested a placement in Abeka 3 for his upcoming 4th grade year (he got about a 50% on their 3rd grade end of year test -- thanks for nothing, private school!) 

 

So... I'm concerned. I don't mind some review if he's struggling. He's not a mathy kid, but he's not bad at it either. BUT. This is a kid who knows all his math facts and was halfway through a challenging 3rd grade curriculum last summer. He went to a school with a weak math program this year, but I'm not sure he needs to repeat an entire year of math to make up for it. There *are* some topics in Abeka 3 he hasn't covered.

 

A friend pointed out that Saxon 5/4 requires a lot of writing (to write out the solutions), which is another potential block -- he HATES writing, so a workbook format might suit him better.

 

So, options:

1. Abeka 3, and just deal with him being a year behind in math, no need to rush
2. Abeka 3, with the aim of jumping him to Saxon 6/5 next school year to get back on grade level
3. Saxon 5/4, with some catch up work this summer (maybe finishing Singapore 3B or just using lots of Khan Academy)

 

Thoughts, particularly from folks who have used these books before with squirrely boys who hate to write?

[Ellie]

I don't think there's that much more writing with Saxon than in a workbook, really.

 

Have you given him the Saxon placement test?

 

I don't wouldn't think that finishing a third grade math would prepare him for a 5th/6th grade math. o_0

[LinRTX]

I would give him the Saxon placement test. I think Saxon 54 reviews the earlier concepts so much that if you understand the basics of adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing it is fine. I would not hesitate to start here with just a basic feel of numbers, but since it is a co-op it may move too fast after that.

 

[Julie of KY]

I'd ask yourself if the coop is the best solution for his math. It doesn't sound like a good fit from what you describe.

 

[Tiramisu]

I'm not a big fan of ABeka third grade math. We hit a wall with it and I've heard of others who have, too.

 

I get the writing problem because we have it. But I still think ABeka 3 will be harder to get through because it makes much bigger leaps than Saxon.

 

FWIW, If we use Saxon as planned next year. I will probably make my own workbook. I think EKS suggested that I write out the problems. It will still be a challenge for my DD to keep worked lined up correctly and legible.

[wapiti]

It doesn't sound like the co op is a good fit for math if he's off-sequence from what they offer.

 

I don't think the placement question is easily answered if we treat the placement test as a "black box."  If you have the test, I would recommend looking closely at what he missed.  If they are simply random topics, it wouldn't bother me to put him ahead, but I'd look to see when they will get covered again, to see whether you may want to cover them during the summer.  If, on the other hand, he had trouble with the main 3rd grade topics (generally multiplication and division and learning multi/div facts - note that I don't know abeka), then I might consider the question differently.

 

If it were me, I'd probably return to Singapore, backing up to where he left off and then skipping (testing through) whatever he already knows along the way.

 

As far as writing goes, that was an issue in our house.  I highly recommend using a white board and of course workbooks as you've already discovered.  Sometimes the resistance to writing can be an asset (LOL!) if it motivates the student to practice mental math extensively.  In this way, Singapore's emphasis on mental math may tilt in its favor.

Edited June 11, 2016 by wapiti

[Tenaj]

 

FWIW, If we use Saxon as planned next year. I will probably make my own workbook. I think EKS suggested that I write out the problems. It will still be a challenge for my DD to keep worked lined up correctly and legible.

 

This is what I do with any of my kids that struggle with Saxon and the transition into the 5/4 book.  I just make a simple worksheet that has the problems already written on it except where the set-up of the problem is part of the problem.  I gradually "forget" to make the worksheet a few times a week and then eventually transition them into writing the lesson themselves.

[RootAnn]

I've been through Abeka 3 three times so far, with another one to start it within the next 6 months.

 

You absolutely could jump from the end of that book into Saxon 6/5. (My oldest placed that or higher when she took the placement test after finishing 3.) It is a challenging level book because it hardly reviews (although every other Abeka book seems to) abd jumps right into new stuff. My oldest didn't have any trouble with it. My #2 had to repeat the first half of the book with supplements (taking almost 2 years to get through), but she is my least mathy so far.

 

#3 did fine with it, although she didn't like math for a time during and after that level because math wasn't easy anymore.

 

So, YMMV. Sounds like you might want to skip the coop math this year. If not, you probably could do either option. I second taking th Saxon placement test to help you decide on that part, anyway.

 

(For what it is worth, Abeka slows way down after the 3 book and takes 3 years to cover 2 years worth of material, IMO. Also, it is weak on metrics and geometry in the early years.)

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

My son had the same issue with writing out problems and he hated Saxon, so we switched to A Beka in 4th grade. I placed him in AB 3 even though he had finished Saxon 3 and was ready for 5/4. If you look at the scope and sequence of 5/4 vs ABeka 3, it is very similar. Most people complain about Abeka 3 because it ramps up fast. It does cover a lot at the end. Don't get hung up on grade levels. The scope and sequence is what matters. You could do Saxon 6/5 after AB 3 if they understood and mastered all the material in A Beka 3. If you want to go through it quickly over the summer though, you could skip the first part, which is mostly review. Also, you could do every other test and skip the lesson right before the test, which is review. You could cherry pick lessons for the most important topics, too. If they are going into 5/4 afterwards, they should be fine because it covers a lot of the same material. But, I would be careful about going too fast because you do want to make sure they understand all of these concepts well because they start to build on each other quickly, such as fractions and mixed numbers along with division. I wouldn't recommend 6/5 afterwards if you accelerated through ABeka 3 at a rapid pace, but 5/4 reviews a lot of the same topics for mastery and could follow an accelerated summer with A Beka 3.

[partyvan6]

Wow, thanks so much for all the thoughtful advice! Lots to chew on here. 

 

I'd ask yourself if the coop is the best solution for his math. It doesn't sound like a good fit from what you describe.

 

To clarify, I used the word "co-op" as shorthand for hybrid school. Our whole family (4 school age kids) will be enrolled in this part-time school. We have to use their curriculum. Though we still have the role of primary educators and a lot of our work is done at home, we can't go off-grid and pick our own curriculum. I really think it's going to work beautifully for our family in every other respect, if we can just figure out which math is the best fit for DS of the available options.

 

I would give him the Saxon placement test. I think Saxon 54 reviews the earlier concepts so much that if you understand the basics of adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing it is fine. I would not hesitate to start here with just a basic feel of numbers, but since it is a co-op it may move too fast after that.

 

This is a great idea. The co-op gave him their own placement tests, but I just got the scores and their recommendation, not the tests. I'm not sure what he missed or why, so I'll give him a few different placement exercises this summer and see where it shakes out.

 

This is what I do with any of my kids that struggle with Saxon and the transition into the 5/4 book.  I just make a simple worksheet that has the problems already written on it except where the set-up of the problem is part of the problem.  I gradually "forget" to make the worksheet a few times a week and then eventually transition them into writing the lesson themselves.

 

LOVE this. I modify writing for him in other areas as well, so this might work. I don't want handwriting to be the thing that holds him back if he's grasping the concepts, which he usually does.

 

Thanks again! I especially appreciated hearing from people who had used all the books in question. We have always used Singapore with all our kids so I am flying blind here.

[edited to delete duplicate quote]

Edited June 13, 2016 by partyvan6

[RootAnn]

Ok, I went back to double check the placement tests my dd#1 took after finishing Abeka 3. She solidly placed into Saxon 6/5. I had her take the 7/6 test, too, but missed a couple problems more than they recommended  mostly stupid mistakes, but also a few things she'd never seen before) in order to place into that level. (Which, by the way others have explained it, means she definitely would have needed to start in 6/5.) She also placed into TT6 & CLE 400 (with weaknesses in decimals, geometry, and metric units). Each program is so different!

 

I'd definitely take the Saxon placement test, but I don't think you could go wrong in either Abeka 3 or Saxon 5/4.