Pet meds

[StephanieZ]

Our dog was just diagnosed with arthritis last week.  Our vet prescribed Dermaxx for 12 days ($40 bucks)  to get the inflammation down in her joints.  Then told us to start her on glucosamine with chondroitin from Costco or buy it online.   I got a 2 month supply from amazon for 30.00 bucks..here' the link if it helps.  http://www.amazon.com/Glucosamine-Advanced-Supplement-Chondroitin-Hyaluronic/dp/B013MML2BI?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

 

I buy Frontline at Costco in 6 month supplies and we don't do heart worm.....she's healthy with no parasites.

 

 

I'd be shopping for a new vet.  

 

I just have to say that if you are really in VA, and your dog isn't on HWP, I bet dollars to donuts s/he has parasites. Fecal screens are not 100%, so negative fecal exams do NOT mean she doesn't have parasites. Intestinal parasites are in the soil (everywhere) and dogs lick their feet, etc. They get parasites over and over. They also are mostly chronically infested, with new infestations arising from hidden deep infections throughout their life. A monthly HWP will dramatically reduce their parasite load. HWP is cheap and easy to administer. 

[ktgrok]

This is a hot topic with my husband who majored in Chemistry (so super science oriented). He thinks -- and I finally agreed with him -- that the vet field ALL sell this idea that only meds from them are safe. Vets, vet techs -- everyone sells this story. If one person says "the king has no clothes" their plan for raising price on meds falls apart.

 

Dh has pointed out that it would be fraud for the middlemen who also sell these products to not sell a safe product. (In a nutshell.) He compares it to the diamond cartel (ton of diamonds, but they're trying to act like they're rare and so far it's working).

 

Bottom line: we buy pet meds on Amazon prime and save a fortune.

 

We have a wonderful, wonderful vet -- LOVE the man. But, geez, they can make it too expensive to have animals.

 

I do feel for the vets. They come out of vet school owning a fortune so I understand why they raise prices.

 

Still.

 

Alley

 

Often the places selling it at a discount are buying it overseas, at a discount. They are not buying direct from the manufacturer in many cases (at least with the prescription products). So the manufacturer won't stand behind the product. 

 

They also are selling at a huge volume, so they can afford to have less mark up than your local vet. It isn't that the vet is scamming anyone, but they often can't even buy it themselves for the prices of some of the catalogs. 

 

Finally, part of the mark up at the vet's office goes to training their staff on the use of the products, which product to use when, and having a live human there to spend 20 minutes discussing your pet's individual needs and what would be best for them. They have to cover that cost, so yeah, more mark up. 

 

That said, I have no moral imperative that says I have to buy from the vet. I just think we need to be very clear that they are not trying to get rich. They have HUGE overhead, and are not scamming anyone.

[StephanieZ]

What are you switching to?

 

My guess is Meloxicam. It's human, available generic, and it's great, so it's a great option for *big dogs* but only for big dogs, unfortunately. The pill size (for humans) is such that 1/2 tab is about right for a 75# dog. There are not any smaller tabs available, and the liquid form (for human kids) would be great EXCEPT it has XYLITOL (artificial sweetener) which is very toxic to dogs. There aren't any good cheap NSAID options for smaller pets. Generic Rimadyl is the "cheap" option, and it's not cheap at all compared to human drugs. 

 

Unfortunately, the drug companies that manufacture dog/cat meds have everyone over a barrel. 

[hornblower]

My guess is Meloxicam. It's human, available generic, and it's great, so it's a great option for *big dogs* but only for big dogs, unfortunately. The pill size (for humans) is such that 1/2 tab is about right for a 75# dog. There are not any smaller tabs available, and the liquid form (for human kids) would be great EXCEPT it has XYLITOL (artificial sweetener) which is very toxic to dogs. There aren't any good cheap NSAID options for smaller pets. Generic Rimadyl is the "cheap" option, and it's not cheap at all compared to human drugs. 

 

Unfortunately, the drug companies that manufacture dog/cat meds have everyone over a barrel. 

 

Do you guys not have a generic vet formulation in liquid in the US? We have one here. Still not as cheap as the pills but it's not terribly expensive ...

 

(now I'm paranoid that mine has xylitol in it) 

[StephanieZ]

Do you guys not have a generic vet formulation in liquid in the US? We have one here. Still not as cheap as the pills but it's not terribly expensive ...

 

(now I'm paranoid that mine has xylitol in it) 

 

Nope, not that dh or I are aware of. (And I'm pretty sure we'd know.)

[hornblower]

Nope, not that dh or I are aware of. (And I'm pretty sure we'd know.)

 

 

yeah, looks like it's only avail in Canada. Apotex makes it but they don't list on their US site. www.apotex.com

 

http://www.drugs.com/vet/apo-meloxicam-can.html

[TammyinTN]

I just have to say that if you are really in VA, and your dog isn't on HWP, I bet dollars to donuts s/he has parasites. Fecal screens are not 100%, so negative fecal exams do NOT mean she doesn't have parasites. Intestinal parasites are in the soil (everywhere) and dogs lick their feet, etc. They get parasites over and over. They also are mostly chronically infested, with new infestations arising from hidden deep infections throughout their life. A monthly HWP will dramatically reduce their parasite load. HWP is cheap and easy to administer. 

 

I'm wrong....Stephanie...my husband gives her Sentinel once a month for it...it wasn't on my list of things to do, so I didn't remember him doing it.   He gets it in 12 months supply and for about $110 for the year. 

[Alicia64]

 

That said, I have no moral imperative that says I have to buy from the vet. I just think we need to be very clear that they are not trying to get rich. They have HUGE overhead, and are not scamming anyone.

 

I didn't say they were scamming anyone. In fact, I wrote:

 

"We have a wonderful, wonderful vet -- LOVE the man. But, geez, they can make it too expensive to have animals.

 

I do feel for the vets. They come out of vet school owning a fortune so I understand why they raise prices."

 

Why did you think I suggested that they were scamming? I was saying? I understand why the prices are higher. They need to make a profit. Period.

 

Alley

[ktgrok]

I didn't say they were scamming anyone. In fact, I wrote:

 

"We have a wonderful, wonderful vet -- LOVE the man. But, geez, they can make it too expensive to have animals.

 

I do feel for the vets. They come out of vet school owning a fortune so I understand why they raise prices."

 

Why did you think I suggested that they were scamming? I was saying? I understand why the prices are higher. They need to make a profit. Period.

 

Alley

 

I totally didn't mean to say that YOU were saying they were scamming anyone. It's just a common common refrain I've heard, over and over. And figured if no one was saying it, that didn't mean no one was thinking it. Sorry, didn't mean to accuse you of anything. 

[Alicia64]

I totally didn't mean to say that YOU were saying they were scamming anyone. It's just a common common refrain I've heard, over and over. And figured if no one was saying it, that didn't mean no one was thinking it. Sorry, didn't mean to accuse you of anything. 

 

Ktgrok: As I was taking a shower this a.m, I thought, ohhhhh, I know what she was trying to say. Then I spent the day trying to get to this computer and apologize.

 

I'd said that "the king is wearing no clothes" re: pet meds having to come from vets. You're right. That does sound like I'm saying that the vets are being shifty and maybe scammy.

 

What I really meant was that the info. of meds having to come from the vet office has been passed around so much through the years within the field that everyone's believing it now. I think that the vets and vet techs legitimately believe it.

 

And maybe they're right. Dh adamantly believes that that's not the case. That buying meds through middlemen is fine.

 

Apologizing for getting snappy. I had a really horrible day yesterday. And it showed!!

 

Alley

[ktgrok]

Ktgrok: As I was taking a shower this a.m, I thought, ohhhhh, I know what she was trying to say. Then I spent the day trying to get to this computer and apologize.

 

I'd said that "the king is wearing no clothes" re: pet meds having to come from vets. You're right. That does sound like I'm saying that the vets are being shifty and maybe scammy.

 

What I really meant was that the info. of meds having to come from the vet office has been passed around so much through the years within the field that everyone's believing it now. I think that the vets and vet techs legitimately believe it.

 

And maybe they're right. Dh adamantly believes that that's not the case. That buying meds through middlemen is fine.

 

Apologizing for getting snappy. I had a really horrible day yesterday. And it showed!!

 

Alley

 

The vets are just quoting the manufacturers....who will not back up the product if not purchased through a vet. Or at least, they wouldn't when I was still working in the field. So if a dog got heart worms while on say, Interceptor, the manufacturer would pay for heart worm treatment if the client was using Interceptor that they bought from vet directly, but would not pay for treatment if the product was purchased online. 

[ktgrok]

Oh, and no hard feelings, really!

[StephanieZ]

FWIW, two dogs have recently gotten parvo . . . They were each clients of our vet hospital and had been fully immunized with high quality vaccines, from the vet. Each was about 5 months old, and had completed all boosters as recommended through 14 weeks of age. Vet care for each was around $1000 or so. Dh's vet hospital contacted the manufacturer, and because they had all their vaccines from the vet per recommendations, the manufacturer reimbursed the clients 100% of the vet care . . . They do similar if a properly cared for pet received preventatives (heart worm meds) and breaks with heart worm or any of the covered intestinal parasites. That sort of guarantee is available through your vet, because the manufacturers provide it . . . If those pets had received care via a parking lot vaccine clinic or bought their products via the internet, no such guarantees are available. 

 

ps. dh is contemplating taking parvo vaccines through 18-20 weeks of age due to this new issue . . . 

[ktgrok]

 

ps. dh is contemplating taking parvo vaccines through 18-20 weeks of age due to this new issue . . . 

 

I'm out of the business now, is this something being seen more often? In a particular area or nationwide? What vaccine interval are you all doing now? One clinic I worked at it was once a month, at 8 weeks, 12 weeks, and 16 weeks. Another it was every 3 weeks, starting at 8 weeks. 

 

Curious what is happening now. (no new puppies for me for a while, but like to stay up to date in case, and my neighbor just got a new puppy)

[kitten18]

I'm out of the business now, is this something being seen more often? In a particular area or nationwide? What vaccine interval are you all doing now? One clinic I worked at it was once a month, at 8 weeks, 12 weeks, and 16 weeks. Another it was every 3 weeks, starting at 8 weeks.

 

Curious what is happening now. (no new puppies for me for a while, but like to stay up to date in case, and my neighbor just got a new puppy)

This isn't recent (our dog is 7) but in Southern California we did Parvo boosters through 20 weeks.

[StephanieZ]

I'm out of the business now, is this something being seen more often? In a particular area or nationwide? What vaccine interval are you all doing now? One clinic I worked at it was once a month, at 8 weeks, 12 weeks, and 16 weeks. Another it was every 3 weeks, starting at 8 weeks. 

 

Curious what is happening now. (no new puppies for me for a while, but like to stay up to date in case, and my neighbor just got a new puppy)

 

My dh follows AAHA's (gold standard) Vaccine guidelines. We don't historically have *terrible* parvo in our area, but it's around, for sure. Guidelines call for parvo boosters q2-4 weeks from birth to >= 14 weeks with at least 2 boosters in total, IIRC. (Then another at 1 year of age and q3 years after that.) Our practice schedules boosters q3 weeks from the time we see them until after 14 weeks (so typically 14-16 weeks of age, depending on their age at presentation.) (AAHA says the final dose should be administered between 14 & 16 weeks.)

 

Dh is looking at extending to 18-20 weeks because of these "breaks" in protection he's observed (and his research is showing is happening in other places as well). His research has found that, yes, this is an issue in other areas, too. Researchers have come up with a couple theories on why these pups are getting parvo despite being "fully" immunized (with the best available vaccines). Current theories include that current vaccines are so good that maternal antibodies are stronger than they used to be and therefor those maternal antibodies are lasting longer in the pups, thereby blocking effectiveness of the puppy boosters for longer than they used to. So, if, say maternal antibodies used to "wear out" by 10 weeks and so then the final boosters as 11-14 weeks effectively triggered immunity, but now those maternal antibodies might be "lasting" until 14-16 weeks, so they continue to block the effectiveness of the vaccines until the puppy is "done" with their boosters. If this is the problem, then extending the puppy boosters longer should provide protection. (Although this also means that puppies should be kept isolated from sources of parvo for much longer -- until the longer booster duration is completed, at, say 18-20 weeks.) 

 

Other theories would be a new/more virulent strain of parvo, but I don't think there's evidence of that just yet. 

 

So, anyway, that's what I know about it. :) If I were getting a puppy now, I'd go ahead and extend parvo boosters (and puppy isolation measures, avoiding dog parks, PetCo, public soil, etc.) through age 18-20 weeks. No guarantees, but that seems safer to me given how deadly parvo is and how safe parvo vaccines are.