FLL & WWE: Strengths & Weaknesses?

[lilyandsparrow]

Note: I tried searching for a thread that discussed this but wasn't very successful, so feel free to point me in the right direction if you know of one :)

I *think* that FLL & WWE will be good fits for my girls next year (1st & 4th grade) but I'm terribly indecisive and am just not sure. I would love to hear what others like about it, what you haven't liked (or why it didn't work for your student).  My oldest is a bit behind in her language arts/writing so we'd probably do her a level behind her grade.

Thanks!!

Anna

[AmandaVT]

We've used FLL for the past 2 years and WWE this year. I like them a lot and plan on continuing next year. 

 

FLL is good, but repetitive. Especially FLL 1. By the time you're halfway thought the book you're going to want to stick a fork in your eye rather than go over the definition of a noun one more time. :-) I will often deviate from the script and use some of the lessons as quick reviews. Also, this year, we skip the copy work because there is copy work in WWE as well and DS wasn't too keen on writing when the year started. DS loves the poem memorization!

 

WWE is great. I noticed that DS remembers the stories much better and gets the questions correct more frequently when chocolate chips are offered as rewards. :-) If he gets the comprehension question correct on the first try, he gets two. If I have to reread the sentences that will answer it to jog his memory, we each get one and if I have to help supply him with the answer, I get two. Very quickly, I started getting very few chocolate chips. :-) We are using WWE a year behind. Last year, he wasn't ready to do the writing. Starting it in 2nd grade was perfect for us. 

[Miss Tick]

Don't start a child in WWE 4 regardless of the level of your student. It is optional and difficult, even if you have done the program all along. In fact, you may want to put her in level 2 to ease into the system.

 

FLL has a lot of repetition, but if your kids know it, skip it. We usually start FLL 1 in kindergarten, so you could probably start that dd with level 2 if you wanted.

 

Of course, if you take both those suggestions you may have confidence issues in your school.

 

We have used both those series all the way through and they get the job done.

Edited May 18, 2016 by SusanC

[Milknhoney]

FLL is repetitive and easy. Perfect for first and second. By third and fourth it got a bit tedious. Ds has an intuitive understanding of grammar and it felt like overkill some of the time. I would have liked to have had a program that he could have done independently. Since he grasped it so quickly, it seemed a bit of a waste of my time to HAVE to be there to do the lesson. If I had it to do over, I might have switched over to R & S for 3rd. But, it was a good strong program. I ended up starting him on the R&S 6th grade book in 5th based on what I read here, and that turned out to work fine. Can't complain about a program that prepared him that well.

 

WWE was often quite challenging once we got into dictation. I found I had to lower my expectations from what the book said as far as how quickly he ought to be able to commit the sentences to memory. Also I would like to have seen a little more instruction on how a paragraph should be structured. There was a little bit of that, but not a whole lot. Now he's in WWS and all of that is there. WWS is a challenging program and it covers a lot of material that I either didn't learn until high school or didn't learn at all. But ds is doing fine with it. It isn't easy by any stretch, he has to work at it, but it isn't beyond his abilities. And I attribute a lot of that to the preparation that he received in WWE. WWE does a whole lot more than it feels like. You just have to be patient to see the outcomes. I think it is very important to read the intro to the instructor guide to understand what you are doing and what you hope to accomplish long term.

[lilyandsparrow]

We've used FLL for the past 2 years and WWE this year. I like them a lot and plan on continuing next year. 

 

FLL is good, but repetitive. Especially FLL 1. By the time you're halfway thought the book you're going to want to stick a fork in your eye rather than go over the definition of a noun one more time. :-) I will often deviate from the script and use some of the lessons as quick reviews. Also, this year, we skip the copy work because there is copy work in WWE as well and DS wasn't too keen on writing when the year started. DS loves the poem memorization!

 

WWE is great. I noticed that DS remembers the stories much better and gets the questions correct more frequently when chocolate chips are offered as rewards. :-) If he gets the comprehension question correct on the first try, he gets two. If I have to reread the sentences that will answer it to jog his memory, we each get one and if I have to help supply him with the answer, I get two. Very quickly, I started getting very few chocolate chips. :-) We are using WWE a year behind. Last year, he wasn't ready to do the writing. Starting it in 2nd grade was perfect for us. 

Awesome!  My girls will move mountains for chocolate chips, so that's brilliant :)

 

Thanks everyone, this is really helpful.  I need to go back and look to see if there is a placement guide.  My youngest does pretty well knowing her nouns, verbs, adjectives and is starting to understand adverbs.  My oldest thrives on repetition, so it's good that we'll have it as she needs it and can skip it when it becomes unnecessary.

 

 

[RKWAcademy]

My first graders used FLL 1 and WWE 1 this year.  I started with FLL and didn't add WWE until mid-way through the year.  We all loved WWE.  FLL was a bore to all of us.  And, like others have said, it's very simple and easy (we didn't do the copywork in FLL).  But, even with the simplicity, my kids didn't retain much and moaned when it had to be done.  I'll continue with WWE next year for 2nd.  I'm on the hunt for an alternative to FLL for 2nd. 

[Peaceful Isle]

I love FLL 3 and 4 and have used them, but I'm not fond of 1 and 2.

 

I also love WWE 1 and 2 but not too fond of 3 and 4.

 

Just my personal experience :)

[EKT]

Am using both programs for both my daughters, and we have used these materials from the start. (That is, FLL and WWE are the only language arts curricula I have ever used with my girls.) Context: I am a former high school English teacher, and saw tons of incoming 9th graders who could barely cobble together a paragraph, so strong language arts instruction is basically my number one priority as a homeschooler.

 

WWE: I absolutely LOVE WWE, and my girls do, too. (The kindergartener is doing WWE 1 very slowly this year, but she was super ready for it and is enjoying it.) I love that the writing instruction is so explicit and straightforward. It just makes so much sense! I also love that the reading passages introduce us to books we might not otherwise encounter. (We routinely read lots of classics, but I always discover new ones from WWE.) I also love that the passages serve as great "pegs" for future learning. (So, you might read a passage about Paul Revere, and then later, when you formally study Paul Revere in history, your child will say, "I remember this!") So, I think it's great and I highly recommend it. 

 

FLL: FLL overlaps a little bit with WWE, but the instruction is, again, top-notch. So, we just cherry pick the actual grammar stuff out of FLL and leave out the copywork and sometimes the picture studies, etc. (It's all good stuff, but my girls are definitely getting enough writing practice through WWE and their other studies, etc., so I just pull out the actual nuts-and-bolts grammar lessons that they need from FLL. It's very easy to do this, since the lessons can easily stand alone.)

 

Other stengths of both programs: 

-Both WWE and FLL open-and-go. No planning necessary!

-With WWE, there is an option to just buy the workbook pages via downloadable PDF for your younger child (instead of having to buy an entire second book).

-Very solid instruction!

-All the reading passages are from high-quality classic literature.

-I think the difficulty level is challenging. The child has to actually think and work their brain. (This is a great thing!)

-If you don't like her selected reading passages, you can just use her approach and apply it to any other novel. But I like the open-and-go nature of the workbooks, so we use them happily.

 

Weaknesses:

-The illustrations are uninspiring (but this is so, so minor!)

-Occasionally a passage is seriously boring, but I think it's okay for kids to have to suck it up once in a while. Not everything has to be their super favorite. (The vast majority of the passages are high-interest and engaging.)

 

So, we love it! I feel so lucky to have found it early and used it right from the start. I just really respect SWB's common-sense approach to writing instruction. (And it's worth mentioning that we tried and, unfortunately, seriously disliked Story of the World. But we LOVE this.) We add in tons of our own read-alouds and my kids do creative writing on their own, so we do other lots of other things for language arts, too, but I have total confidence this program will help my kids grow into extremely capable writers who can bang out a college paper, no problem. (We plan to follow all the way through WWS, if things keep humming right along as they are now....) 

 

Hope this helps!

[lilyandsparrow]

Am using both programs for both my daughters, and we have used these materials from the start. (That is, FLL and WWE are the only language arts curricula I have ever used with my girls.) Context: I am a former high school English teacher, and saw tons of incoming 9th graders who could barely cobble together a paragraph, so strong language arts instruction is basically my number one priority as a homeschooler.

 

WWE: I absolutely LOVE WWE, and my girls do, too. (The kindergartener is doing WWE 1 very slowly this year, but she was super ready for it and is enjoying it.) I love that the writing instruction is so explicit and straightforward. It just makes so much sense! I also love that the reading passages introduce us to books we might not otherwise encounter. (We routinely read lots of classics, but I always discover new ones from WWE.) I also love that the passages serve as great "pegs" for future learning. (So, you might read a passage about Paul Revere, and then later, when you formally study Paul Revere in history, your child will say, "I remember this!") So, I think it's great and I highly recommend it. 

 

FLL: FLL overlaps a little bit with WWE, but the instruction is, again, top-notch. So, we just cherry pick the actual grammar stuff out of FLL and leave out the copywork and sometimes the picture studies, etc. (It's all good stuff, but my girls are definitely getting enough writing practice through WWE and their other studies, etc., so I just pull out the actual nuts-and-bolts grammar lessons that they need from FLL. It's very easy to do this, since the lessons can easily stand alone.)

 

Other stengths of both programs: 

-Both WWE and FLL open-and-go. No planning necessary!

-With WWE, there is an option to just buy the workbook pages via downloadable PDF for your younger child (instead of having to buy an entire second book).

-Very solid instruction!

-All the reading passages are from high-quality classic literature.

-I think the difficulty level is challenging. The child has to actually think and work their brain. (This is a great thing!)

-If you don't like her selected reading passages, you can just use her approach and apply it to any other novel. But I like the open-and-go nature of the workbooks, so we use them happily.

 

Weaknesses:

-The illustrations are uninspiring (but this is so, so minor!)

-Occasionally a passage is seriously boring, but I think it's okay for kids to have to suck it up once in a while. Not everything has to be their super favorite. (The vast majority of the passages are high-interest and engaging.)

 

So, we love it! I feel so lucky to have found it early and used it right from the start. I just really respect SWB's common-sense approach to writing instruction. (And it's worth mentioning that we tried and, unfortunately, seriously disliked Story of the World. But we LOVE this.) We add in tons of our own read-alouds and my kids do creative writing on their own, so we do other lots of other things for language arts, too, but I have total confidence this program will help my kids grow into extremely capable writers who can bang out a college paper, no problem. (We plan to follow all the way through WWS, if things keep humming right along as they are now....) 

 

Hope this helps!

Thank you!  This helps immensely.  I started looking into both of these because my husband and I both value a strong foundation for english grammar and writing.  We want our daughters to learn how parts of speech work together, how to diagram, and how to write well.  Reading the description and some reviews on blogs helped some, but this is wonderful!

[EKT]

Thank you!  This helps immensely.  I started looking into both of these because my husband and I both value a strong foundation for english grammar and writing.  We want our daughters to learn how parts of speech work together, how to diagram, and how to write well.  Reading the description and some reviews on blogs helped some, but this is wonderful!

 

My pleasure! I forgot to mention this earlier, so I wanted to add that we do use one other curriculum for spelling (from a different publisher), because WWE and FLL do not cover spelling. We use All About Spelling (and we LOVE that, as well). But as I said in my original response, I've been super impressed with WWE and FLL for writing and grammar. Good luck finding stuff that works for you! :-)

[mamamoose]

FLL 1 was wayyyyyy boring for my 2nd grader and I moved him up to FLL 2, and he loves it. My K student is half way through FLL 1 and it is perfect for that age! My 4th grader is doing FLL 3 but could probably have jumped right in to FLL 4. WWE is an entirely different story. Both my 2nd and Ker are doing WWE 1, and it's right for both (2nd grader is dyslexic). WWE 3 has challenging dictation, so I'm glad we didn't go with the fourth level! Overall, I think if we had done levels 1 and 2 with my oldest, 3 might have gotten boring. As it is, it's been okay. I know my youngest will be bored to tears by level 3, so we will need to figure out what our next venture will be.

[lilyandsparrow]

My pleasure! I forgot to mention this earlier, so I wanted to add that we do use one other curriculum for spelling (from a different publisher), because WWE and FLL do not cover spelling. We use All About Spelling (and we LOVE that, as well). But as I said in my original response, I've been super impressed with WWE and FLL for writing and grammar. Good luck finding stuff that works for you! :-)

We've been doing spelling u see, and for this year it's been good (not a single fit about spelling, so that's nice!).  I need to re-look into All About Spelling.  My oldest still is a terrible speller, so I think we're going to need to focus a bit more on it next year.  

 

FLL 1 was wayyyyyy boring for my 2nd grader and I moved him up to FLL 2, and he loves it. My K student is half way through FLL 1 and it is perfect for that age! My 4th grader is doing FLL 3 but could probably have jumped right in to FLL 4. WWE is an entirely different story. Both my 2nd and Ker are doing WWE 1, and it's right for both (2nd grader is dyslexic). WWE 3 has challenging dictation, so I'm glad we didn't go with the fourth level! Overall, I think if we had done levels 1 and 2 with my oldest, 3 might have gotten boring. As it is, it's been okay. I know my youngest will be bored to tears by level 3, so we will need to figure out what our next venture will be.

 

This is helpful, thank you.  I'm wondering then if FLL won't be challenging enough for my daughter who will be in 1st grade next year.  

Maybe I'll just order FLL 2 and see and judge from there if my 1st grader will do well with it or if I should get her FLL1 and see if my oldest will need FLL3. 

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

I like WWE. It's a great, gentle intro to writing for young children. The biggest con is that it doesn't do much with paragraphs and move beyond the sentence much until you get to WWS. If you have to do any sort of standardized testing, and WWE is your only writing, your writing standards will be "behind." There are some very good, intentional reasons for this. However, I think doing it for all four years is a bit too much and stars to move on to CAP writing and Rhetoric in or after third grade. It has some copywork and dictation in it so its a great transition. The other option is to supplement in third grade or so with some other writing introductions. I like them to start writing some simple compositions in fourth grade, such as a State History notebook.

 

We tried FLL this year for the first time against my better judgment. My son is in first, and there's not a lot of grammar in first grade, so we went with it. But all the lessons are oral in the first two years, and it wasn't a great fit for this son. He'd much rather have a book to read or workbook page. There's a lot of repetitiveness with WWE as it was written before that came out. There are some great lessons in there, but it was just very dry for us. It is very gentle, but meaty, and would be great for certain kids.

[lilyandsparrow]

I like WWE. It's a great, gentle intro to writing for young children. The biggest con is that it doesn't do much with paragraphs and move beyond the sentence much until you get to WWS. If you have to do any sort of standardized testing, and WWE is your only writing, your writing standards will be "behind." There are some very good, intentional reasons for this. However, I think doing it for all four years is a bit too much and stars to move on to CAP writing and Rhetoric in or after third grade. It has some copywork and dictation in it so its a great transition. The other option is to supplement in third grade or so with some other writing introductions. I like them to start writing some simple compositions in fourth grade, such as a State History notebook.

 

We tried FLL this year for the first time against my better judgment. My son is in first, and there's not a lot of grammar in first grade, so we went with it. But all the lessons are oral in the first two years, and it wasn't a great fit for this son. He'd much rather have a book to read or workbook page. There's a lot of repetitiveness with WWE as it was written before that came out. There are some great lessons in there, but it was just very dry for us. It is very gentle, but meaty, and would be great for certain kids.

Oh, I like the idea of a state history book!! Great thought, thanks for sharing it :)

[desertflower]

I love fll/wwe. For all the same reasons listed above (especially the open and go part).

 

Lilyandsparrow - I think starting your youngest with fll 2 would be a good fit. If I remember correctly, FLL 1 teaches nouns, verbs and possibly a touch of adjectives. But there is review in the second book.

 

Good luck.