impulsive 7 yo...Superflex, Zones of Regulation, or ??

[caedmyn]

Would one of these programs likely be helpful for my very impulsive 7 yo? Or any other suggestions? I've come to the comclusion that he rarely thinks before he does anything, he just acts or reacts...makes it difficult to come up with any consequences or incentives that will help him change his behavior. Currently the biggest issue is hitting his siblings any time any of them does anything he doesn't like (ie all day long it seems). He's had a few instances of hitting kids at church too, although usually there has been a certain amount of provocation.

[PeterPan]

The problem is, do you think the behavior is lack of understanding and perspective taking, lack of ability to communicate, or impulsivity?  Or something else?  

 

In general, the actual solution is probably meds.  Sure you could work on social thinking with Incredible Flexible You.  Superflex is too old.  But that's sort of the slow way of getting there.  In general, I'd figure out what is leading up to it so you can solve the problem.  If he's having a problem with his impulsivity, then you're going to need something to get in the middle of that, either meds or some natural consequences to get his brain to kick in.

 

Has he had a speech eval?  He has speech issues?  

 

Honestly, with my ds we've done a combo of things.  He's impulsive, yes, but he was having communication issues AND was sensory-seeking (meaning it felt good to hit things and that he wasn't getting the feedback that it HURT).  It was just a complex thing for him, kwim?  So we had to have immediate consequences (you hit, you lose, you go to your room) AND work on communication AND get OT for the sensory AND explain the feelings and perspective taking of it...  

[caedmyn]

I think it's a combination of the impulsivity and being easily frustrated. We've been working for a long time on what to do if someone does something you don't like (ask them to stop, or ask mom for help), and he remember to do this some of the time...maybe 25%. But even when he remembers, if they don't respond instantly, then he hits. He's shown signs of sometimes controlling impulsivity the past few months, usually with things where, if I remember to remind him what to do/what not to do beforehand, and it's a controlled setting (like, if you stay on the couch and watch your movie the whole 30 mins while I nap, you get a punch on your card toward earning $1, and if you don't, there's a negative consequence...we've been doing the movie at naptime thing for 3 years and he's finally, mostly, staying there IF I remind him beforehand). If it's not a controlled setting, he probably won't remember. He doesn't bolt across parking lots/streets anymore...well at least he stops at the edge...once we're in the parking lot he often needs reminders not to race ahead to the vehicle. He doesn't take off across any store we happen to be in (this was a BIG problem for a few years). And when he smacked a kid at church in the face for no good reason and I wouldn't let him go out and play after church for a month afterwards, he hasn't (to my knowledge anyway) hit anymore at church, even when the kid he hit on several occasions did something mean to him as revenge...so there's some self-control in there somewhere. I just have to figure out how to access it more reliably.

 

No speech issues other than pronouncing r properly sometimes. He doesn't have any trouble communicating.

 

I am not sure on sensory issues. He doesn't fit the profile in stuff I read on sensory issues like The Out of Sync Child. He does climb/hang on things constantly, but his brothers are pretty NT as far as I can tell and they do a lot of that too. He chews on everything, and the only time he's still is when he's sucking on a finger, so I guess that'd be a sensory thing. But I don't think the hitting is sensory related. He knows it hurts and he knows he shouldn't, and he doesn't hit DH or I anymore so clearly he knows there are lines he better not cross.

[geodob]

Though in our brain, just behind the middle of our eyes?

Their is a mental 'Pause' button, that typically takes around 6 years to develop control of.

Which is just in front of the part of the brain that processes emotions, the Amygdala.

 

So that what develops, is the ability to instantly press the mental pause button.

So that the consequences of reacting to an impulse, can then be considered.

 

But if we can't push the Pause button quick enough?  Then the action will happen.

Where we only have about a tenth of second to Pause.

What is more helpful, is to have him practice using his Pause button?

With speed being the critical thing to develop.

So that when he has an impulse to 'hit a sibling'?

That he can Pause before his body reacts.

 

So that he can come to be able to notice the Impulse as he recieves it, and then be able to pause and choose how to react to it?

To become an observer of his impulses.

[kirstenhill]

My DS7 is similar - we have had a lot of problems with impulsively hitting siblings and other kids when things don't go the way he likes. We started medication and it has been super helpful for him. We are doing a non-stimulant, and he has next to no side effects. He is still working on developing/practicing better skills to help when he is frustrated, but my impression is that the medication is giving him that "delay" time to engage in using those skills. Like we can actually use the pause button Geodob was talking about. Just the medication would not have been enough, as he still has to take the steps he has learned about in therapy and in a class he is doing right now that focuses on mindfulness and self-calming techniques.

 

The therapist who runs the class uses SuperFlex as a big part of the class even though she has first and second graders in the class and my DS7 seems to be getting a lot out of it - I'm sure she is bringing her experiences to bear in making the material work with that age group, but if you have an opportunity to borrow SuperFlex or buy it cheap or something like that, I wouldn't rule it out.

[PeterPan]

You have plenty of indication there to decide to do an OT eval, psych eval, meds, and social skills instruction.  It's just what you're wanting/able/ready to make happen.  

 

It would be up to the behaviorist what she used for the Social Thinking materials.  Both Incredible Flexible You and Superflex are quite good.  IFY is being renamed "We Thinkers" and it has a sequel program coming out this summer that is going to be STELLAR.  I've seen it, and it's good stuff.  

 

While you *can* do social thinking materials yourself, it's just better done by someone else.  The dc gets the wording, the calmness, the consistency.  

Edited May 13, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Mrs. Tharp]

7-9 is a tough age for that sort of thing. Kids with that issue understand that their actions are wrong, but often have difficulties changing their behavior to reflect their knowledge. For this reason Social Thinking did not work for my son at that age. It made him dramatically more aware of what he was doing wrong, but he did not possess the EF skills to actually change his behavior. As a result, his anxiety increased and his confidence plummeted. Use with caution; knowledge is not always power for kids with EF problems.

 

 Time is on your side here. With maturity will come an increasing ability to slow down and reflect.

 

 I agree that medication is the first thing to try and would suggest looking into it as soon as possible. It can make a huge difference.

 

It's sounds like you've been keeping his environment very structured, which is good. I would not let him into an unstructured situation without reminding him of expectations and consequences first. 

 

I recommend the book, Parenting Children With ADHD. http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Children-ADHD-Medicine-Lifetools/dp/1433815710?ie=UTF8&keywords=parenting%20children%20with%20adhd%2010%20lessons%20that%20medicine%20cannot%20teach&qid=1463184339&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1

 

The author discusses two techniques in it, positive punishment and positive practice, that might be very helpful. I wish I'd known about them when my son was 7.

[Mrs. Tharp]

Website is taking forever to let me edit, so I'll just post again. 

 

I am not against Social Thinking at all. There's lots of great stuff in that curriculum. I just think it's important to make sure that kids are ready for it. Kids like my son, who have trouble with impulsivity and emotional regulation, need to be in a spot where they can accept and proactively use the information. Otherwise they can feel like they are being berated for issues they already feel bad about, such as anger, lashing out, etc, which is obviously doesn't help. 

[caedmyn]

What would I look for in an evaluator if I pursued an OT evaluation?

 

He is not really in a very structured environment. There's some, but not nearly enough.  I try, but I am so much better at planning than actually implementing/being consistent with things.  All my boys would do better with more structure, but they are so wild and I have a lot of trouble with focusing and sensory issues due to some health problems that I don't even know where/how to begin trying to make things more structured.

[PeterPan]

See what your insurance covers.  OT is very expensive, so that's your first thing to sort out.  Then, in general you're going to look for who has a good reputation in your area or who is trained in a thing you want.  Like if you really want neurofeedback or Interactive Metronome or...  then you'll want to look at those websites to see who is trained in them in your area. You can also google.  

 

In general, people working in the autism community are the ones seeing the most with sensory, etc., so that's a way to look.  

[caedmyn]

We don't have insurance.  Apparently there's only two OTs in the area that even test for sensory issues, and they want a doctor's referral first.

 

 

[caedmyn]

Anyone know if the "You Are a Social Detective" book is really necessary before Superflex?  The website says it is, but it looks like from Amazon reviews people are having good success with Superflex alone.

[PeterPan]

The products stand on their own, yes. 

[73349]

You might also want to look at the MindUp k-2 book.

[mb4]

 IFY is being renamed "We Thinkers" and it has a sequel program coming out this summer that is going to be STELLAR.  I've seen it, and it's good stuff.  

 

 

 

Sorry to hijack, but will the renamed Incredible Flexible You have different content?  Should I wait to buy it until it has been renamed "We Thinkers?"  I was considering purchasing it soon.  Thanks!

[PeterPan]

Sorry to hijack, but will the renamed Incredible Flexible You have different content?  Should I wait to buy it until it has been renamed "We Thinkers?"  I was considering purchasing it soon.  Thanks!

 

Only a title change, because they're releasing a sequel program.  I saw the new We Thinkers 2 beta at the workshop, and it's REALLY GOOD stuff!!  It comes out in June.  But yes, Winner confirmed that the ONLY thing that is changing in IFY is the title, no content change.

 

Now what *is* changing significantly is the art in the Whole Body Listening series.  I think that has already changed, so when you buy something that says 2nd edition you're getting the updated materials.  The content didn't change, but there was SO much controversy over the way the art depicted the behaviors that they redid it.  Their goal in the new edition is to be more natural, more age-typical for socially typical kids.  So less robot, more slouching and just lots of natural variation.

 

So are you pre-ordering We Thinkers 2?  You can call and pre-order for another week probably.  Oh duh, you're thinking We Thinkers 1.  I think they were doing 10% off for pre-orders of We Thinkers 2.  

Edited May 23, 2016 by OhElizabeth