Dog anxiety: The flies! So many flies!

[Barb_]

I have a terrier mix. She is sweet and very attached to me and follows me around the house. She's travels well and walks in the city (we are currently in Chicago) without startling, bolting, growling pulling or yapping. She is generally calm and well mannered. But she's always had a problem with mild anxiety. She had always licked herself raw in places, and if I manage to move her off one place to let it heal she moves to another one. Once the first place heals, she just moves back.

 

Now she catches imaginary flies. Not only does she snap at them, she chews them up and swallows them. It's really hard to train a dog *not* to do something because I'm afraid I'll inadvertently condition her to continue the behavior with extra attention. I think part of the problem is boredom. It's been a very long winter for all of us and if it's much below freezing she digs in and refuses to walk, even with her two coats, even with her favorite treats.

 

Any ideas or advice, Dog Gurus?

[Pawz4me]

Look up "fly snapping syndrome."

 

It used to be considered a type of OCD, but I believe recently there's been a lot of discussion that the behavior may be seizure related (a type of complex partial seizure IIRC). And there's another theory that the behavior may be caused by GI issues. If she were mine I'd at least want to discuss it with my regular vet, and maybe a vet neurologist. I wouldn't assume it's something that can be dealt with through training.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Pawz4me

[Barb_]

I did and I only grew more confused. I'm inclined to come down on the side of OCD. If it were seizures I wouldn't think I could distract her. I've been paying close attention to when she does it and it seems to occur when she is stressed about something. When she wants to eat but the cat or kids are nearby, she eats flies. We went to a hotel for a few days and she was fine until the last day once she began to be bored and had explore everything. When we were waiting outside for my husband to return with the car, she had to stand by the street without walking and she started up.

 

The GI thing is an interesting point I hadn't heard before. We won't be back in AZ to see our regular vet until April, so I wondered if anyone else has any experience. Judging by the slow responses I'm guessing not, lol

[The Girls' Mom]

Have you tried giving her grain free food?  My JRT will lick her feet raw when she has wheat or corn in her diet.  She becomes an anxious mess.

[Barb_]

When you catch her doing it and distract her can you work with teaching her a new trick? Terriers are usually so smart- maybe she needs an outlet to keep her brain busy?

That's a good idea. It's hard because she'll do it in the middle of the day when we're all busy with school, but maybe if I set aside time to entertain her once an hour or so....hmmm.

 

We split our time between Arizona and Chicago. Long story as to why but we've been doing it for five years. Once it's over 105 in AZ she refused to walk just like she's doing here when it hits the teens. I can't imagine why, lol. But in AZ during a long hot stretch she developed an annoying obsessive habit of scratching to be let in and then back out again every 15 minutes or so. The more she went in and out the more agitated she got. We live in a third floor walk up here in the city so letting her out wasn't an option and the behavior disappeared.

 

Do you guys think anxiety meds could help? I'll eventually take her to the vet, I just want to a explore all the angles before I do. I usually prefer to go with the most conservative methods first and work my way up when it comes to healthcare.

[Barb_]

Have you tried giving her grain free food? My JRT will lick her feet raw when she has wheat or corn in her diet. She becomes an anxious mess.

We do feed her grain free limited ingredient food but I'm not great at keeping people food plates away from her to lick when we're done. It could very well be a food sensitivity/allergy thing. I'll try keeping her just on her food for a couple of weeks to see what happens.

[Barb_]

Totally gratuitous picture of the little nutjob. Isn't she a cutie pie??

[Barb_]

I had a pit bull once that had a bunch of quirks (neurosis). And although she was huge compared to your dog- they're still terriers at heart. The vet offered her Prozac but I couldn't do it. I felt like it would just mask the symptoms. She always did better with a lot of exercise- the saying a tired dog is a good dog rang very true. Do you by chance own a treadmill? Since you're weather limited that could help too if you happen to have one. We used to love watching Cesar Milan and that's what he did with dogs that couldn't be walked for whatever reason.

No, currently (and since last May) we are six people in an 825sqft 2-1 apt. No room for anything outside of necessities. We've all developed a few quirks 😋 But now that the weather looks like it's about to break I will make sure she gets her walks. And we head back to our house in a few weeks. She's only 2.5 years old so she's still young. I'm hoping I can figure her out before her quirks become part of her personality.

[Barb_]

Holy crap I'd be snapping flies too!!! :D

I mostly snap at my children 😂😂😂

[Spy Car]

Do you have dog boots? I'd suspect the reluctance to walk in cold (and hot) weather is more about pads that being cold (or hot). Just be careful with heat prostration, it can kill a dog.

 

The dog sounds like it needs much more mental stimulation.

 

Bill

[Barb_]

Do you have dog boots? I'd suspect the reluctance to walk in cold (and hot) weather is more about pads that being cold (or hot). Just be careful with heat prostration, it can kill a dog.

 

The dog sounds like it needs much more mental stimulation.

 

Bill

You're right, she does. She is barely weird at all when the weather isn't extreme. In the summer I'm usually up at 5 to run because the weather is unbearable much past 8am. She gets a walk when I get back and that's it. Evenings are still over 100. That was when I first noticed the random weird behaviors. The kids and I do play fetch and chase and tug of war with her in the apartment. She has a cat to annoy and vice versa. It could be worse. Any ideas given the limitations of our environment? Never thought about the boots. That's a good idea.

[Pawz4me]

She sure is a cutie!

 

I do think anxiety medication could help, if that's the root cause.  I'm a huge proponent of medication for anxiety for both dog and people.  As someone who has suffered a couple of bouts of intense anxiety, I firmly believe that it's extremely difficult to impossible to learn coping strategies while the brain is in hyper drive.  When I was dealing with anxiety hours and hours of exercise did nothing for my racing brain.  It tired my body out but did nothing for my mind.  Medication did help.  I so firmly believe in medicating for anxiety related behavioral issues that I think it's abusive not to.

 

If I wanted to try some form of exercise for her it would absolutely be what Bill and Kand suggest -- the mental variety.  I'd teach every obedience command and trick I could think of. If she's food motivated I'd get a bunch of treat dispensing toys and she'd work for all of her food that way.  Or I'd hide her food around the apartment so she had to hunt for it.  Physical exercise is great, but IME nothing tires a dog out like lots and lots of mental exercise.

 

Another thing that occurred to me -- Have you ever used a laser toy around her or had her "chase" the light from one?  Supposedly that can trigger fly snapping in some dogs.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Pawz4me

[gingersmom]

I had a Norwegian elkhound mix that would get jealous of the other dog or if he wasn't getting enough attention would lick the couch obsessively (it was leather).

 

Is there doggie daycare you can take her to?

[ktgrok]

That's a good idea. It's hard because she'll do it in the middle of the day when we're all busy with school, but maybe if I set aside time to entertain her once an hour or so....hmmm.

 

We split our time between Arizona and Chicago. Long story as to why but we've been doing it for five years. Once it's over 105 in AZ she refused to walk just like she's doing here when it hits the teens. I can't imagine why, lol. But in AZ during a long hot stretch she developed an annoying obsessive habit of scratching to be let in and then back out again every 15 minutes or so. The more she went in and out the more agitated she got. We live in a third floor walk up here in the city so letting her out wasn't an option and the behavior disappeared.

 

Do you guys think anxiety meds could help? I'll eventually take her to the vet, I just want to a explore all the angles before I do. I usually prefer to go with the most conservative methods first and work my way up when it comes to healthcare.

 

These do sound like stereotypies and I do think meds would probably help. Not sure which ones they would use but keep in mind some take 6 weeks to kick in, so give it a decent run before deciding if they work. others, like valium, would be short acting, but not what you want to use on a daily basis I would imagine. 

[Spy Car]

You're right, she does. She is barely weird at all when the weather isn't extreme. In the summer I'm usually up at 5 to run because the weather is unbearable much past 8am. She gets a walk when I get back and that's it. Evenings are still over 100. That was when I first noticed the random weird behaviors. The kids and I do play fetch and chase and tug of war with her in the apartment. She has a cat to annoy and vice versa. It could be worse. Any ideas given the limitations of our environment? Never thought about the boots. That's a good idea.

 

Be aware that many dogs have much bigger front feet than back ones, so measure and order ones where you can get the appropriate sizes (front/rear). i know there are places that sell Ruff-wear that allow this when getting a boot set.

 

I'd Google "dogs mental stimulation" and similar searches to get a range of ideas for training and games. Tiring (mentally exercising) a dog has a huge impact. It can not be underestimated. If weather and schedule permits, a class (obedience, agility, other) can be a positive.

 

I have no experience medicating a dog, but would act compassionately if a dog was experiencing anxiety. That said, a dog that is bored, lacks a job, and has no mentally challenging work to do (combined with lack of outdoor exercise time—especially off-leash time) is very likely to suffer ill effects. It may take a multi-pronged approach, but I would certainly make active and conscious daily training/mental stimulation a part of the routine, combined with as much physical exercise as practical. If it also required medications, I'd do it.

 

But don't underestimate the powerfully negative effects of boredom in dogs. Licking spots raw is a classic (and dangerous) warning sign. If you actively change the situation I'd bet you'll see a difference. 

 

Bill

[Barb_]

 

Could you get her a treat puzzle to put her food or treats in? Something she could spend a good long while working on? Do you have a kid who might be interested to teach her some nose work or some other skill that would put her brain to work?[/quote

 

This is the first time I've heard of this! She's our first dog, so big learning curve. I'll try it :)

[Barb_]

She sure is a cutie!

 

I do think anxiety medication could help, if that's the root cause. I'm a huge proponent of medication for anxiety for both dog and people. As someone who has suffered a couple of bouts of intense anxiety, I firmly believe that it's extremely difficult to impossible to learn coping strategies while the brain is in hyper drive. When I was dealing with anxiety hours and hours of exercise did nothing for my racing brain. It tired my body out but did nothing for my mind. Medication did help. I so firmly believe in medicating for anxiety related behavioral issues that I think it's abusive not to.

 

If I wanted to try some form of exercise for her it would absolutely be what Bill and Kand suggest -- the mental variety. I'd teach every obedience command and trick I could think of. If she's food motivated I'd get a bunch of treat dispensing toys and she'd work for all of her food that way. Or I'd hide her food around the apartment so she had to hunt for it. Physical exercise is great, but IME nothing tires a dog out like lots and lots of mental exercise.

 

Another thing that occurred to me -- Have you ever used a laser toy around her or had her "chase" the light from one? Supposedly that can trigger fly snapping in some dogs.

No, no laser. Actually that isn't true, my son used to sneak my laser thermometer and play with the dog and the cat but that was a year ago. Read him the riot act and he doesn't do it anymore. I did see where it can be related so I'll let him know why it's a bad idea in case he decides to try it again.

 

Oh, also we used to have my oldest daughter's cat. He was a wiry, active former stray that Loved to play chase. He'd chase the dog, the dog would chase back...kept her busy during the day. Then Meg took the cat back when we left to come out here and we just have the lazy cranky cat that sits in the window and hisses at her. Maybe we should borrow the cat back lol

 

Thanks for the advice.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Barb_

[Barb_]

These do sound like stereotypies and I do think meds would probably help. Not sure which ones they would use but keep in mind some take 6 weeks to kick in, so give it a decent run before deciding if they work. others, like valium, would be short acting, but not what you want to use on a daily basis I would imagine.

The behavior seems to be diminishing on its own. When we went out of town for the weekend she didn't do it until the last day. Yesterday she did it once at dinner time and so far today she isn't doing it at all.

 

I realized the snapping started when I sprayed her groin with some bitter Apple out old vet recommended. It used to work well to keep her from licking herself, but it had been a while since we'd needed to use it. The spot started to look bad again--I think she's hiding in her kennel or behind the couch because I rarely see her lick herself--so I sprayed her and immediately gave her a treat. Boy did that backfire. That's when she started snapping *and* she was suddenly terrified of the smell of the treats. I was able to condition her to accept the treats from me again, but the spray was traumatizing.

 

So I'm happy the snapping seems to be going away on its own but the underlying anxiety is still a problem.

[Barb_]

I had a Norwegian elkhound mix that would get jealous of the other dog or if he wasn't getting enough attention would lick the couch obsessively (it was leather).

 

Is there doggie daycare you can take her to?

How come? Oh you mean for attention? She actually gets a ton of attention. Just not a lot of mental stimulation. She might be happier having other dogs to play with though. I can't really justify the cost though. We've got a mortgage and a rent payment every month.

[Barb_]

You guys are great! Better than google. I know because I tried that first! Thanks for all the terrific ideas :)