Tell me why we should outline science and history?

[Lux Et Veritas Academy]

I really need a good talking to on why this is really important? Has it changed your life, your career, your papers, your child? I understand if you are writing a paper, but I am confused on outlining to outline! Make sense?

[8filltheheart]

It is supposed to help in learning to locate key information vs the superfluous and help cement ideas.

 

That said......we don't (and never have done) it. We discuss. Lots. I pull writing assignments out periodically. (I alternate subjects for their assignments week to week.)

 

When they hit high school, they take notes which I guess it techincally simliar to outlining. But....I am just not a big knowledge based education person. I am much more interested in thinking, so outlining in the younger yrs is not a priority for me.

 

ETA: My kids outline their writing assignments starting in 3rd grade. Thought I should clarify that we do outline, just not chapter info from textbooks.

[dcjlkplus3]

I think that in the early stages it is simply skill-building, in preparation for writing papers in later life.

I do outline a little. I take notes at church (helps me focus) and I usually try to do it in that format (as much as I can) and knowing how to outline would have helped me more in college with notetaking as well. I even do my yearly goals planning in outline format.

It is also an excellent way to organize your thoughts.

I have to say that,as a general rule, I would much rather listen to a speaker who is speaking from an outline than one who is not. So it helps a lot with public speaking as well.

Besides, you never know what path your children will take and what skills they will need. I think it is better to prepare them as much as possible and I think that means outlining also.

[Colleen in NS]

I really need a good talking to on why this is really important? Has it changed your life, your career, your papers, your child? I understand if you are writing a paper, but I am confused on outlining to outline! Make sense?

 

We use outlining/rewriting from an outline as a means to practice breaking down a piece of writing, to see how a good writer's thoughts are laid out, and then putting them all back together (without looking at the original writing).

 

I figure if we do this enough, we will start to see writing patterns, and be able to imitate them (imitating a good writer's skills) in our own original writing later on. The process of outlining/rewriting from an outline is writing skills practice. The bonus is that, if you practice it on history or science, you learn history and science through the process. Or any other non-fiction material for that matter - you could use it on any non-fiction subject, as long as you pick a piece that is well-written, so that you can imitate good writing. :)

 

Does that make sense?

 

EDIT: Beth's post reminded me to say that we currently only do one level outlining on about 5 or 6 paragraphs. I wouldn't do entire chapters or books, either. As we move to 2, 3, and 4 level outlines over the years, I will shorten the amount of paragraphs, to where the amount of rewriting from an outline (and we won't start rewrites until 6th or 7th grade) will only equal a half to one page. It's the short, consistent practice in logically laying out ideas that I'm after, not outlining reams of information to try to remember.

[Beth in Central TX]

I have gone back and forth this past year over the value of outlining in our homeschool. I always have my boys outline their thoughts for their own compositions, but outlining someone else's thoughts can be difficult at times. Last year my boys were getting frustrated with the outlining process in history, so we started taking notes instead (getting down the main ideas and supporting points without all of the outlining structure).

 

After listening to SWB talk in July, I remember thinking I needed to get back to outlining, but honestly, I can't remember her exact words that inspired me to do this. I do remember her saying that the students didn't need to outline the entire book or chapter. Therefore, I now select a short section from their history books to outline and that is working out better for all of us.

 

I wouldn't say outlining has made any dramatic life changes in our homeschool, but it does help my oldest organize his thoughts before he attempts to write his paragraphs or essays in Omnibus I. Without an outline he tends to restate his thesis many times, but with no supporting details. When he works without an outline, I can use his final work as an example of circular reasoning for our logic discussions.

 

HTH!

[Mama Lynx]

I really need a good talking to on why this is really important? Has it changed your life, your career, your papers, your child? I understand if you are writing a paper, but I am confused on outlining to outline! Make sense?

 

It doesn't matter *what* you outline. Anything. Pick anything.

 

Outlining teaches kids how to identify the main point of a paragraph, and how a paragraph/piece of writing/argument is structured. It helps to teach that ideas and arguments must flow logically.

 

I don't think you have to do a great deal of it to get the point across.

[Beth in SW WA]

We haven't done much outlining and I don't think we will. Outlining & lit analysis is at the bottom of our priority list. :)

 

Maybe after reading this thread, I will change my tune.

[Rhondabee]

When we outline history (we don't outline science), it is part history, part "applied English" time. Yes, we are getting exposed to a basic historical happening that we may investigate further; but we are also noticing ways that whatever we are studying in writing is being worked out and applied within the piece we're outlining.

 

It is rather difficult to put into words how the process goes, especially at the 8th grade level. But, I *do* find it helpful for reinforcing the lessons 8th-ds has been learning in unity and coherence and transitioning between sentences and paragraphs. Hopefully soon he will be ready to start truly re-writing the entire essay in his own words, using his outlines (usually only 4 or 5 paragraphs). This (I think - or at least hope!), will be an excellent introduction to expositive essays.

 

I wouldn't characterize our outlining sessions as brilliant kid sits and does his work flawlessly without mom intervention, however. =) And, we have moved slowly through each step of the process - we've been working on this since 5th grade! I guess what I'm trying to say (I've deleted an awful lot!), is that there is more than one way to learn history and writing. So, if you wind up not outlining, the world certainly won't end!

 

But, if you decide that you really do want to follow WTM's recs for history and writing, then also please know that it is OK to continue the outlining and such into the high school years.

 

(This is from the Frequently Asked Questions section of the website, under How to Start in the Middle.):

 

4) Combine the logic stage and rhetoric stage study of history by using the Kingfisher History Encyclopedia and the outlining/compositions we suggest for the logic stage. But make these compositions more complex (rather than simply summarizing the information in the Kingfisher History, use outside sources as well). As you progress through the Kingfisher History, read through a shortened Great Books list at the appropriate time; when you're reading about Greece, stop and do Plato; when you're reading about Elizabethan England, do Shakespeare; etc.

 

The entire article is here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/starting.php

 

I have seen great benefit to having a wholistic approach to our school day, and I think the outlining helps facilitate that ideal because (in addition to boosting composition awareness) it frees us from feeling bound to a textbook or someone else's compilation of a curriculum. I *wish* I felt comfortable enough with science to cut our curriculum chord there as well! Utter chaos has erupted both times I tried.

 

hth,

Rhonda

 

ETA: in the CD I have of one of SWB's middle school sessions, her preference is to take notes of KHE, then outline from another source *if* it is a subject the dc wants to investigate further. (She also really pushed using primary sources when dc wants to know more - we'll be saving that for high school for my oldest. Maybe the younger can join along.)

[mcconnellboys]

It helps to develop the ability to take notes in high school.

[Leila]

Well, I am just going to share my own experience. We were taught how to outline when I was in highschool and it helped me a lot with my college days. First, it really organized your thoughts and help you a lot when you have to do book reports and research papers. And when you get better doing outlines, it is really a big help to extract important information. And now that I am homeschooling, even though my son is only 8, I try to teach him how to do it. It really helps to retain information and understand what you are reading.

[Colleen in NS]

Has it changed your life, your career, your papers, your child?

 

I just reread your post and realized I didn't answer these questions.

 

Changing papers: several have described how outlining does this

 

changing child: outlining is causing my child to think and extract important info. out of not-so-important info. - good not just for writing papers, but for filtering life

 

changing career and life: Oh yes! We are just getting started with one level outlining, and I can see how the further we go along into more levels and eventually rewrites, that my thinking will get more clear! This will be a huge advantage to me as I write or interact with people, my thoughts about many things are becoming more and more clear! I'd say learning these skills are an important aid (along with other skills I'm learning, like grammar, logic, Latin, math, etc.) to helping me think clearly and filter the important details of something I'm reading or hearing, from the not-so-important details. I WISH so much that I had been taught these skills as a kid.

[Cindy in WA]

I remember vividly as a 5th grader being required to outline our history chapters. It was awful. Took all the joy out of history. To this day I cringe at the thought. That may be the single most painful educational activity from my schooling. I couldn't bring myself to torture our children that way.

 

I've always thought there have to be many ways that are better to learn the information needed, whether it be for history/science or for english skills.

 

I understand the reasoning, but just can't go there.

 

Cindy