dorothy Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I cannot read music and yet I was in piano for 12 years! I could sound out everything and would memorize it. My teacher never figured it out. UGH. Now I see that my dd has the same "talent." I know how important it is to actually be able to read the music and want to help her. What can I do? What can I use? She has her piano books and is doing fine, but I think it is like math facts, she just has to KNOW her notes. Suggestions? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisychics Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Ds has the same "talent", like his Dad. His piano teacher told me to sit with him for 5 minutes everyday, using whatever music they are learning, and point at the note and have him say it out loud. Then the next step is to have him say the note and play it at the same time. We just started this week... ds told me he wants to master F A C E first, so that's what we are working on. I purchased a book called Note Speller at the music store near our house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magistramom Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Rod & Staff (3) has a music program that teaches that basics of note reading, and how to draw treble/bass clefs and notes. If you do not have a piano (harp, violin, trumpet, etc.), you can invest in a $20 recorder, and a basic recorder music book and begin playing. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Anna Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 . . . which is why, after many years and two music degrees, I still can't play piano well! :glare: My best strategy has been to just practice sight-reading. It would depend on what level your dd is at, but I would suggest buying an extra book at or one step below her level (I know that the Alfred series has many different books for each level, e.g. Hymn 1A, Recital 1A, etc. and I suspect other publishers out there probably do too) and having her read a measure or two of a song with which she has no other contact each practice session. If you use her lesson material, she may have heard it or played it (even once) at her lesson. But if you use a different book she won't have heard it and can't sound it out. You won't want to do too much at a time or she's likely to get frustrated. But think of it as phonics - a little each day improves reading ability over time. On the other hand, don't totally decry her ability to play by ear. That can be really valuable, especially if she decides to go beyond the basics in piano. But using the memory crutch to avoid developing sight-reading skills is a mistake that can hurt her for a long time. At least, it has really messed me up! HTH! Mama Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 We are using Alfred's Essentials of Music Theory this year. Dh has played, sang and composed guitar for years and is on worship team and HE didn't know how either so he is learning right along with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinRTX Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 a free fun sight to practice with is emusictheory.com. I have my dd work on it about 5 minutes at a time (I try for every day but I'm not that consistent.) She is improving knowing her notes. I hope this helps. Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I have the same problem with my children. Months and years of note name flashcards (in addition to piano lessons) and they STILL cannot name the notes. They play by ear or if absolutely pushed, count. It definately is slowing them down. Grrrr.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yslek Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I remember having this "problem" in early grade school. All 3rd & 4th graders played the recorder, and I remember looking at the music only because that was expected. After moving between 4th & 5th grades, I was in music class at my new school, and the teacher was explaining something about reading music (rhythms, I think) and all of a sudden everything I hadn't learned over the past several years clicked into place and I thought "I already know all this!" Really weird. So it may not be a total loss. Maybe a different approach to reading music at just the right time will help your dd. :) I do hope it "clicks" soon. :) Kelsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifra Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The only way that I can now identify notes is by reading The Book for Young Musicians (published by Shooting Star Press). This book gives the basic of playing piano and reading music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuovonne Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I'm teaching my daughter to read notes using homemade flashcards. We work on them for a couple of minutes every day. In addition to just showing her the cards and having her name and play them, we play a few games with them that are based on the numerations games in the RightStart Math games book. I should add that even though I am teaching my daughter piano, I can't play any musical instrument myself. I am also teaching her the way I taught her to read English, not the way the music books suggest. For example, I waited until DD had the alphabet memorized before teaching her to read English. I won't give DD a song to play until she can read all the notes in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanM Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 One of my ds learned to read music very easily, almost effortlessly. The other ds still struggles with note names. The ds that learned to read music easily struggled with reading words and the other ds found words easy. Strange. Some resources I've used: Flashcards (not exciting, but they do seem to help) We have a geo-safari and I wrote some cards for that to practice notes. Websites: http://www.happynote.com/treble-clef-bass-clef.html http://www.gmajormusictheory.org/Fundamentals/workbooks.html http://makingmusicfun.net/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julieofsardis Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 As knowing where the corresponding key on the instrument is. Or knowing the pitch. It's like learning to read by knowing sounds, but not knowing the names of the alphabet. Of course, knowing the alphabet comes in handy when trying to file things, or look up something in the dictionary, but you could totally read anything without knowing the names of the letters. The same is true with knowing the names of the music notes. You could totally play any instrument well -- sight reading even, without knowing the names of the notes. Although, it does come in handy when discussing music with others, or teaching situations. I also agree with the other poster who said not to overlook the value of playing by ear. These two skills combined yield the best musicians in my opinion. I guess what I'm saying is that the flashcard thing makes no sense to me. I learned the notes by playing them. It just seems like a step that isn't necessary to me. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I would actually advise learning sight-singing with solfa and/or numbers. I agree with the pp that learning the actual names is less important. Music is an art of patterns. To read well, she needs to learn how to translate the pattern she sees to the pattern she hears, and the pattern she hears to the pattern she sees. All patterns do not start at middle C. Honestly, with bright students who play naturally by ear, I would capitolize on that and find her a teacher that will teach her solid ear training. Listening to intervals and naming them, listening to measures and dictating them. If she can learn to play the piece by ear, she can learn to dictate it. If she can learn to dictate it, she will be reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inashoe Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) As knowing where the corresponding key on the instrument is. Or knowing the pitch. It's like learning to read by knowing sounds, but not knowing the names of the alphabet. Of course, knowing the alphabet comes in handy when trying to file things, or look up something in the dictionary, but you could totally read anything without knowing the names of the letters. The same is true with knowing the names of the music notes. You could totally play any instrument well -- sight reading even, without knowing the names of the notes. Although, it does come in handy when discussing music with others, or teaching situations. I also agree with the other poster who said not to overlook the value of playing by ear. These two skills combined yield the best musicians in my opinion. I guess what I'm saying is that the flashcard thing makes no sense to me. I learned the notes by playing them. It just seems like a step that isn't necessary to me. Julie :iagree: Drop the Flashcards. How boring, and totally not the musical way to go. Alfred's Basic Piano teaches the child to spot the patterns. It teaches them to first recognize intervals, 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, etc. Then it teaches that the treble clef is the G - clef, with the treble sign circling around the G-note. From there a lot of the beginners notes can be found by looking for the interval, up a 2nd, or down a 3rd, etc. If you work slowly through the Alfred's books then this is all taught slowly and methodically. Teach your child to see these patterns. Math- strong students see patterns quickly which is why Math kids do well in music. Alfred's also has an Ear Training book for each level. This teaches a child to "hear" music, hear the patterns, hear the rhythm, hear the intervals, etc. Edited January 23, 2009 by inashoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellycbr Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I would actually advise learning sight-singing with solfa and/or numbers. I agree with the pp that learning the actual names is less important. Music is an art of patterns. To read well, she needs to learn how to translate the pattern she sees to the pattern she hears, and the pattern she hears to the pattern she sees. All patterns do not start at middle C. Honestly, with bright students who play naturally by ear, I would capitolize on that and find her a teacher that will teach her solid ear training. Listening to intervals and naming them, listening to measures and dictating them. If she can learn to play the piece by ear, she can learn to dictate it. If she can learn to dictate it, she will be reading it. I took piano for 8 years as a child. I could read the music and play easily. Today, I can't play a thing. If I had learned to play by ear, I would still be playing. It's a joy to watch my kids learn piano with the Suzuki method which starts out by teaching everything by ear, and instilling in them a joy and love of the music. Don't underestimate the gift your child has. Try finding a Suzuki teacher to capitalize on your childs learning style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuovonne Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) Listening to intervals and naming them, listening to measures and dictating them. If she can learn to play the piece by ear, she can learn to dictate it. If she can learn to dictate it, she will be reading it. Just curious, how does a student name and dictate musical intervals and measures without knowing the names of the notes? Does he sing the note? Does he play the note? Does he just name the type of interval (second, third, octave, etc.)? you could totally read anything without knowing the names of the letters I agree. However, everyone who can read and spell fluently learns the names of the letters eventually. Similarly, I bet that most musicians who can play from sheet music fluently know the names of the notes. (Playing without sheet music is a different issue.) I just choose to teach the names of notes up front along with the corresponding key on the keyboard. Drop the Flashcards. How boring, and totally not the musical way to go. I agree that being able to play by ear is a wonderful talent that should be taken advantage of. However, I don't see how that precludes using flashcards to memorize notes and other musical notation? Why can't you have both? Flashcards can be a very efficient tool for memorizing stuff, and there are many creative ways to use flashcards that allow for seeing patterns in the notes. For example, one activity I do with my daughter is shuffle the cards (all 8 of them!) and have her arrange all the notes from low to high. Then she names them, while pointing to them with the hand normally used to play that note. I have another flashcard game where she arranges notes into measures of four beats. I'm using flashcards with my daughter, because I have no musical ability and I'm tone deaf. Music is important enough to me to try to help her learn piano and she is proud of herself when she can play a new song. However, she's 5 and has a short attention span, and at this stage I'm not willing to spend the money and time on lessons. If and when she outgrows what I can do with flashcards for free, I'll consider real lessons. I know that I'm training in some bad habits, but I figure that the benefits outweigh the bad habits. Edited January 23, 2009 by Kuovonne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Just curious, how does a student name and dictate musical intervals and measures without knowing the names of the notes? Does he sing the note? Does he play the note? Does he just name the type of interval (second, third, octave, etc.)? Yes yes and yes! I start by naming the interval - and the same intervals should be learned all over the keyboard, which is why naming the actual NOTE is not the best way to start. Then give the student some staff paper with one note written and play an interval beginning with that note, and have the student write the second note. At the same time, give the student a single interval and play the first pitch, and then have the student sing the interval she sees. Learning the note names is important - it's just limitting to learn (first) in the way of sight-reading/ear training. Once you learn a M3 for example, you can sing "do me" or "1 3" anywhere on the keyboard. If we are to compare music reading to English, I would say solfegge is the "phonics", not the note names....that's more akin to grammar...if that makes any sense. I applaud you for taking the initiative to teach your dd. I actually think the flashcards can serve a good purpose, esp lining them up highest to lowest...that's a good idea. I don't think you are harming her in anyway - unless she hates it kwim. Honestly, make sure your piano is ALWAYS in tune - that trains her ear. Have her learn simple tunes on the piano, and then teach her to sing those in solfegge. If she can sing "Marie Had a Little Lamb" "Twinkle Twinkle," and such *in tune* with solfegge she will be getting better ear training than most kids. At your dd's age, I wouldn't do too much formally with ear training anyway. My ds is 5 and I am still just singing with him - no writing of intervals. A fun game for that age is playing two pitches (and work up to a short tune) and have her sing back (not peeking). SHe doesn't need to know anything about the notes yet, just make her voice sing them. Start with m3 and work within common intervals you find in her other playing. Play these everywhere within her vocal range. Ask her if the sounds were high or low, went up or down - describe in vague terms. When she gets really good with that, have her sing the intervals on solfegge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuovonne Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hi Paula-- Thanks for the encouraging words. Your method sounds really neat. Unfortunately, I'm tone deaf, so I can't really try it. When DD plays, I have to watch her fingers to see if she's playing the right note - I can't tell just by listening :-( We have an electronic keyboard, so thankfully, it is always in tune. Dorothy- Sorry for the thread hijack. I guess some of us like flashcards and others prefer other methods. I hope that you find something that works for you and your daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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