Has anyone taken the SCAT early? (For CTYOnline)

[SeaConquest]

Sacha is in first grade by age. I was planning for him to take the SCAT next year in second to apply to CTY. But, I recently looked at some sample SCAT tests, and they seem like something that he could do now. The reason that I am interested is because I would like for him to take some CTYOnline classes (especially languages), and don't currently have any other way to qualify him. Has anyone ever taken the SCAT/applied to CTY earlier than second grade?

[Arcadia]

My kids took in 2nd grade. However, the cty staff has been very helpful every time I emailed them. Drop them an email. Their response time is fast. I usually email in the evening and get a reply by sunrise.

[JenneinCA]

My older kids took the test when they were about that age, but it didn't turn out to be helpful. The classes were horribly expensive and we didn't use any of them. So be sure you are aware of the costs of the classes before going to the trouble of taking the test.

[SeaConquest]

My older kids took the test when they were about that age, but it didn't turn out to be helpful. The classes were horribly expensive and we didn't use any of them. So be sure you are aware of the costs of the classes before going to the trouble of taking the test.

 

They are ridiculously expensive, but I think we will qualify for financial aid. I assume that the only way to know is to apply, but I suppose I should email CTY. I just wondered if anyone had done it early, and whether it is as doable as it looks. 

[Dmmetler]

DD did it based on 1st grade scores at age 6. It is hard to qualify based on 1st grade scores because the ceiling is so easy to hit-I called them and they authorized it once I told them which test it was. I didn't find the SCAT test at all useful, but if you qualify for financial aid, it may be worth it for class qualification (I'm hoping that the middle/high school stuff will be more viable, which is why DD tested through CTY again this year). I found the EXPLORE (2nd grade by age, 3rd grade on paper) more useful, but CTY doesn't accept it.

[SeaConquest]

DD did it based on 1st grade scores at age 6. It is hard to qualify based on 1st grade scores because the ceiling is so easy to hit-I called them and they authorized it once I told them which test it was. I didn't find the SCAT test at all useful, but if you qualify for financial aid, it may be worth it for class qualification (I'm hoping that the middle/high school stuff will be more viable, which is why DD tested through CTY again this year). I found the EXPLORE (2nd grade by age, 3rd grade on paper) more useful, but CTY doesn't accept it.

 

I'm not sure I understand. Did she use SCAT scores to qualify in 1st or something else? I thought that the test was an above-level test for 2nd and 3rd graders? Did she hit the ceiling on the test in 1st? I'm just trying to avoid paying for expensive psych/IQ testing.

[Dmmetler]

She hit the ceiling on the grade level 1st grade test at K age, and then tested with CTY at 1st grade age. Same with the EXPLORE. We bumped another grade for testing this year, since she's 5th by age, 6th by registration, and took the SAT, which is considered above level for 7th-8th graders. I've never had problems with doing so when she's hitting ceilings in one or more test areas, nor have Inhad problems registering her for online courses as long as she had the score required for the higher grade, even when she was young for the class comparatively.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Just a word of caution...

 

As with all classes, the quality of CTY classes depends largely on the teacher. We had one CTY language class that was well worth the money. We dropped a different one when the teacher did not meet our expectations. We then realized that for the same price as a CTY semester class (which actually has short semesters), my DD could take a year long class from another vendor with a better teacher AND have extensive private tutoring sessions. It's hard do imagine going back to CTY.

 

Hopefully you'll get a good teacher match!

 

ETA: Good luck with the SCAT! My DD took it when she was much older, so no advice about taking it at an early age.

[mathnerd]

CTY classes are not that great in the early elementary level in our experience (turned out that we could have used the time and money for other things with better outcomes). If you qualify for financial aid, then, it might be worth your while. (someone on this forum once said that Thinkwell is the provider for some of the cTY courses and that they were cheaper from the original vendor - i am not sure if this is still the same).

 

I am not sure about what you are asking - do you mean that you are looking for a way to qualify him for taking SCAT at age 6?

If you want him to take CTYOnline courses as a 1st grader, then you might need an IQ test results to qualify. But, if you want to enroll him as a second grader, then the enrollment requirements are easier to meet. You need a standardized test score for an end of year assessment for a 1st grader (it does not matter if he is still only 6 years old). If you can have him take a standardized test for 1st grade (like STAR, ERB, ITBS etc), and the results are above 95th percentile (for a few select subtests) then, they will automatically qualify him. You can either administer the 1st grade standardized testing yourself or ask your school district if they will administer it for you.

For enrollment in CTYOnline courses 2nd grade and above, there is another option of qualifying for SCAT by writing a parent recommendation and sending in a portfolio of advanced work sample to demonstrate ability above age-level peers - which I am not familiar with. 

[Arcadia]

I have a weird response from Duke TIP today though. I asked how to update my 6th grader's account with his recent ACT scores just in case he wants to do the summer camps. The person replied that they will take his scores when he is officially in 7th grade but not before.

CTY JHU was happy to get his score report which was how I got to see his scores before the ACT mail comes.

My kids enjoyed the CTY Young Readers course eventhough it might be a little easy for them. They want to do another young readers this academic year. They have no problems with a 6th grader taking their AP physics class if I want to sign him up. It is parent's discretion, I do not need to advocate.

When I applied for my youngest to take SCAT, I had no test scores. I tick whatever box is the equivalent of because I think he qualifies as his parent :lol: no questions asked.

[quark]

I have a weird response from Duke TIP today though. I asked how to update my 6th grader's account with his recent ACT scores just in case he wants to do the summer camps. The person replied that they will take his scores when he is officially in 7th grade but not before.

 

Duke TiP gave me a similar response when I called them up a few years ago. For a talent search, they were incredibly rigid about grades.

 

[Dmmetler]

Same here on taking the EXPLORE early. Folks were much nicer in Iowa :).

[MASHomeschooler]

Just a word of caution...

 

As with all classes, the quality of CTY classes depends largely on the teacher. We had one CTY language class that was well worth the money. We dropped a different one when the teacher did not meet our expectations. We then realized that for the same price as a CTY semester class (which actually has short semesters), my DD could take a year long class from another vendor with a better teacher AND have extensive private tutoring sessions. It's hard do imagine going back to CTY.

 

Hopefully you'll get a good teacher match!

 

ETA: Good luck with the SCAT! My DD took it when she was much older, so no advice about taking it at an early age.

 

May I ask which provider you liked for language for advanced elementary kids? My 8 and 10 year olds are doing Spanish for Children B this year, and I was thinking about CTY Spanish next year since I don't think they will be ready for the pace of a high school class (much less getting one to let them in), but I don't know of any other non-high school Spanish classes for the level they will be at.

[Element]

My older kids took the test when they were about that age, but it didn't turn out to be helpful. The classes were horribly expensive and we didn't use any of them. So be sure you are aware of the costs of the classes before going to the trouble of taking the test.

This was our experience as well. My son took it right after he turned 7.

[Arcadia]

Duke TiP gave me a similar response when I called them up a few years ago. For a talent search, they were incredibly rigid about grades.

 

 

The  irony :lol:  DS10 now has a Cogito account :)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

May I ask which provider you liked for language for advanced elementary kids? My 8 and 10 year olds are doing Spanish for Children B this year, and I was thinking about CTY Spanish next year since I don't think they will be ready for the pace of a high school class (much less getting one to let them in), but I don't know of any other non-high school Spanish classes for the level they will be at.

I applaud you for taking into consideration the pace of the class. Many high school classes not even geared toward "gifted" students move at a quick pace and expect much from students.

 

I prefer to wait until a student is nearing high school for online classes, so I don't have any providers to recommend. Sorry! At those ages, I would try to find a local tutor, class, or language club. Failing that, I might consider an online tutor that could give family lessons on Skype.

 

Someone else might have more helpful suggestions. I hope you find a good fit!

 

A quick aside of general musings...

The bolded comment in the quote is an important point. In the past, I have heard people in my local area discuss frustration with gifted children being enrolled in classes far above the child's age level. I sort of tsk tsked those comments, not fully realizing the negative effects a too young, not ready student can have on a class.

 

Then my daughter became involved in more classes, in person and online. The reality was a bit disturbing. Some of the young children in classes stood out for their weaknesses as much as for their strengths. Being able to absorb, process, and discuss advanced input is separate from being able to produce quantities of quality written output. Being able to converse and interact appropriately is as important as understanding the material.

 

To be sure, there are a few children we have met that have left us almost speechless with their overall giftedness and maturity. They needed to be in the class as much as the teens did. They were ready for the input, the output...everything. On the other hand, there are also many children whose parents have misjudged readiness. The child's asynchrony did not make a class well beyond the child's chronological age a good choice. I wonder if this is why some gifted providers are strict about grade levels. I imagine it's also because they are aiming their classes at broad levels of giftedness and not just the profoundly gifted.

 

It's unfortunate that decisions with some providers can't be made on a case-by-case basis. As I stated earlier, there are certainly some children that are absolutely ready for high school work. It does, however, seem that there are fewer of them than many parents realize. I often wonder if some gifted providers have lowered their intensity to allow these children to participate. The CTY class my daughter took was actually no more rigorous than the typical online class she's taking now. I'm more and more cynical of all things gifted.

 

It's tricky, messy, and dangerous to discuss. ;)

[Dmmetler]

Athena's Academy has a Spanish class, and the classes there are designed for asynchronous GT kids. We haven't done any classes with the Spanish teacher, but the ones we've done have been great for DD at age 7-10 (she is going to be a TA for a class this Spring, having done all their LA classes except for the teen-specific ones). I will say to pay close attention to reading levels and requirements. If it says "reading at a grade 4 level", they not only mean grade 4 reading, but the ability to read fairly quickly and accurately at that level. In general, there's a lot more input expected than output. I will also say that both Athena's and G3 were started by people coming out of the PG community, so the classes tend to be skewed towards "really young kids for the class who need higher level input, but are weak writers" because that's where the need is. I'd say that if you have a more synchronous child, they may not be the best provider for you-a 12 yr old would probably find the 6th grade literature class frustrating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Athena's Academy has a Spanish class, and the classes there are designed for asynchronous GT kids. We haven't done any classes with the Spanish teacher, but the ones we've done have been great for DD at age 7-10 (she is going to be a TA for a class this Spring, having done all their LA classes except for the teen-specific ones). I will say to pay close attention to reading levels and requirements. If it says "reading at a grade 4 level", they not only mean grade 4 reading, but the ability to read fairly quickly and accurately at that level. In general, there's a lot more input expected than output. I will also say that both Athena's and G3 were started by people coming out of the PG community, so the classes tend to be skewed towards "really young kids for the class who need higher level input, but are weak writers" because that's where the need is. I'd say that if you have a more synchronous child, they may not be the best provider for you-a 12 yr old would probably find the 6th grade literature class frustrating.

 

Perhaps this is why Athena's and G3 have never interested us.  My dd doesn't seem to have the asycnchony that many mention, so the classes didn't seem to offer much that she couldn't get elsewhere. (I'm not sure if the lack of asycnhony is nature or nurture. It's probably a combo of both.) I certainly don't think all PG children are weak writers, even at young ages. For some, writing is their strength. Hmm...I'm not sure that catering to a writing weakness is a good thing...

 

I just took a look at the high school classes at G3. In what way are these geared toward PG students? I'm just not seeing a difference between these classes and rigorous HS classes with other vendors or AP or DE. If anything, some G3 classes seem rather light. I sometimes wonder if these types of "gifted" classes give children and parents a false sense of abilities. I know some are shocked to find out that typical classes are more difficult than they had anticipated, to the point the gifted student actually fails or drops the classes. It's an interesting phenomenon. 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

OP, sorry for the derail!!  :blushing:

[MASHomeschooler]

I applaud you for taking into consideration the pace of the class. Many high school classes not even geared toward "gifted" students move at a quick pace and expect much from students.

 

I prefer to wait until a student is nearing high school for online classes, so I don't have any providers to recommend. Sorry! At those ages, I would try to find a local tutor, class, or language club. Failing that, I might consider an online tutor that could give family lessons on Skype.

 

Someone else might have more helpful suggestions. I hope you find a good fit!

 

Thanks. We have looked into those other ideas a bit. They've also been doing Homeschool Spanish Academy once a week, which is good for the live conversation with a native speaker aspect, but I don't find their curriculum strong enough to use as a main program. The local programs are age restricted so the ones they could do, they are beyond. It is tough to find something that's higher level but appropriate pace and intensity, which is why I was hoping CTY would provide that. If we don't do CTY, we will probably go with a tutor.

 

 

Athena's Academy has a Spanish class, and the classes there are designed for asynchronous GT kids. We haven't done any classes with the Spanish teacher, but the ones we've done have been great for DD at age 7-10 (she is going to be a TA for a class this Spring, having done all their LA classes except for the teen-specific ones). I will say to pay close attention to reading levels and requirements. If it says "reading at a grade 4 level", they not only mean grade 4 reading, but the ability to read fairly quickly and accurately at that level. In general, there's a lot more input expected than output. I will also say that both Athena's and G3 were started by people coming out of the PG community, so the classes tend to be skewed towards "really young kids for the class who need higher level input, but are weak writers" because that's where the need is. I'd say that if you have a more synchronous child, they may not be the best provider for you-a 12 yr old would probably find the 6th grade literature class frustrating.

 

My 10 year old has done Athena's classes (and now does some at G3), and my 8 year old is doing one this year, and they have been a really good fit for the classes they've done. I saw both site offer Spanish, but just introductory, so it would be review for them.

 

Perhaps this is why Athena's and G3 have never interested us.  My dd doesn't seem to have the asycnchony that many mention, so the classes didn't seem to offer much that she couldn't get elsewhere. (I'm not sure if the lack of asycnhony is nature or nurture. It's probably a combo of both.) I certainly don't think all PG children are weak writers, even at young ages. For some, writing is their strength. Hmm...I'm not sure that catering to a writing weakness is a good thing...

 

I just took a look at the high school classes at G3. In what way are these geared toward PG students? I'm just not seeing a difference between these classes and rigorous HS classes with other vendors or AP or DE. If anything, some G3 classes seem rather light. I sometimes wonder if these types of "gifted" classes give children and parents a false sense of abilities. I know some are shocked to find out that typical classes are more difficult than they had anticipated, to the point the student actually fails or drops the classes. It's an interesting phenomenon. 

 

They have been a good fit for my PG kids, in that very sense. My 8 year old is taking Athena's "6th grade" level lit and my 10 year old is taking G3's LLtLoTR and will take her first "high school" level (American Lit) next semester. They are ready for these books and topics, but not for the intensity of that level of course. I don't say my 10 year old is taking a high school class, because she's definitely not. They are not classes for PG high school kids; they are classes for younger PG kids reading with comprehension at a high school level. I can see that some parents might take it that way and get that false idea, though.

 

OP, sorry for the derail!!  :blushing:

 

Yes, sorry!

[Woodland Mist Academy]

They are not classes for PG high school kids; they are classes for younger PG kids reading with comprehension at a high school level. I can see that some parents might take it that way and get that false idea, though.

 

 

Perhaps from reading the class descriptions? Doesn't seem like a false idea to me. 

 

Teen Focus classes are designed for highly and profoundly gifted students ages 12 and up.* 

Taken directly from the site: http://www.onlineg3.com/OnlineG3/Teen_Focus_Course_Descriptions.html

[SeaConquest]

The derailing is fine. I'm definitely not looking at high school level language classes. CTY has several language classes for elementary age kids. Sacha is starting Athena's this spring. He's taking Geology. He will be 7, and science is his passion, so I'm hoping it will be a good fit. If all goes well, we plan to start their literature classes in the fall.

[Arcadia]

If all goes well, we plan to start their literature classes in the fall.

The literature class if you are talking about young readers is dependent on teacher feedback. So which teacher you get comes into play as to how detailed and how constructive the feedback to your child's written assignment is.

[MASHomeschooler]

Perhaps from reading the class descriptions? Doesn't seem like a false idea to me. 

 

Teen Focus classes are designed for highly and profoundly gifted students ages 12 and up.* 

Taken directly from the site: http://www.onlineg3.com/OnlineG3/Teen_Focus_Course_Descriptions.html

 

Ha, true. Yeah, that's a subset, and a more recent addition to their lineup. Since my oldest is 10, I haven't looked into them. I assumed they added them because some of the kids who'd been through their original lineup were asking for more, and a little more meaty, and I also assumed it was geared for something like ages 12-14, not a lot of high school age kids, but I don't really know. There are more of those than I realized, so I could definitely be wrong.

 

They do also state "All classes are designed to appeal to advanced readers who wish to study material above grade level.  Above-level writing skills are not required unless specifically noted in the course description."

http://www.onlineg3.com/OnlineG3/Placement_and_Progression.html

To me that means they are not the equivalent (nor attempting to be the equivalent) of regular or gifted classes at the stated level, but are appropriate for younger students ready for certain aspects of that level. And, again, I have found that to be true so far, for mine.

[MASHomeschooler]

The derailing is fine. I'm definitely not looking at high school level language classes. CTY has several language classes for elementary age kids. Sacha is starting Athena's this spring. He's taking Geology. He will be 7, and science is his passion, so I'm hoping it will be a good fit. If all goes well, we plan to start their literature classes in the fall.

 

Yes, CTY has 9 levels for Spanish for elementary kids, and they'll pre-assess, so it sounded like just what we needed. While I've heard mixed reviews of other CTY classes, until this thread I'd only heard positive about their language classes, so we may still give it a try.

 

I don't post super often, but I read a fair amount, especially on this board, and from what I've seen you write about him, I would guess Athena's would be a good fit for Sacha. We haven't done the Geology, so I don't know about that class in particular, but my kids have enjoyed the classes they have done.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Ha, true. Yeah, that's a subset, and a more recent addition to their lineup. Since my oldest is 10, I haven't looked into them. I assumed they added them because some of the kids who'd been through their original lineup were asking for more, and a little more meaty, and I also assumed it was geared for something like ages 12-14, not a lot of high school age kids, but I don't really know. There are more of those than I realized, so I could definitely be wrong.

 

They do also state "All classes are designed to appeal to advanced readers who wish to study material above grade level. Above-level writing skills are not required unless specifically noted in the course description."

http://www.onlineg3.com/OnlineG3/Placement_and_Progression.html

To me that means they are not the equivalent (nor attempting to be the equivalent) of regular or gifted classes at the stated level, but are appropriate for younger students ready for certain aspects of that level. And, again, I have found that to be true so far, for mine.

If the classes were geared toward PG Tweens that have writing weaknesses, I wouldn't have been so taken back. But stating the classes are for PG TEENS is a different ballgame entirely.

 

The second bolded sentence reminds me we are NOT in the target audience. We found many, many ways to study above grade level material, no class necessary. For us, one compelling reason for taking classes is for outside feedback on meaningful assignments that require the student to synthesize information and provide high quality output. It seems to me that should be one of the goals of high school no matter what the student level. For PG teens it should be even more so. (In my mind, that actually trickles down to lower grades as well.)

 

Obviously there is a market for the classes and they work well for many students. :)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Actually, the materials themselves seem just on level or perhaps light for a rigorous high school, not advanced. I'm more bewildered than ever. I'm clearly missing something. ;)

[SeaConquest]

The literature class if you are talking about young readers is dependent on teacher feedback. So which teacher you get comes into play as to how detailed and how constructive the feedback to your child's written assignment is.

 

Sorry. I meant Athena's lit classes. Sacha isn't big on writing, so I wasn't planning on any online writing classes for quite awhile. The requirements for Athena's lit classes seem much more manageable for him.

[SeaConquest]

If the classes were geared toward PG Tweens that have writing weaknesses, I wouldn't have been so taken back. But stating the classes are for PG TEENS is a different ballgame entirely.

 

The second bolded sentence reminds me we are NOT in the target audience. We found many, many ways to study above grade level material, no class necessary. For us, one compelling reason for taking classes is for outside feedback on meaningful assignments that require the student to synthesize information and provide high quality output. It seems to me that should be one of the goals of high school no matter what the student level. For PG teens it should be even more so. (In my mind, that actually trickles down to lower grades as well.)

 

Obviously there is a market for the classes and they work well for many students. :)

 

You can certainly study above grade level material without a class, but Sacha is extremely social, and I personally need a break from the constant blah, blah, blah about xyz passion of the day. I hope to find him additional peers with whom he can converse about the subjects that he enjoys. He doesn't have a hard time making friends; it's just that there aren't that many kids his age who enjoy talking about Adamantite ore for extended periods of time, ykwim?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

You can certainly study above grade level material without a class, but Sacha is extremely social, and I personally need a break from the constant blah, blah, blah about xyz passion of the day. I hope to find him additional peers with whom he can converse about the subjects that he enjoys. He doesn't have a hard time making friends; it's just that there aren't that many kids his age who enjoy talking about Adamantite ore for extended periods of time, ykwim?

 

I understand! I have an extremely verbal only child. There were days I thought I would lose.my.mind, especially when we lived in a rural area.  We found other solutions until she was older, but I'm all for whatever works! Each family is different. 

 

I hope you didn't think my musings were directed at you!  :sad:   I was just thinking aloud in the wrong thread. I should have started a new one about whether or not gifted classes are really any different or advanced or something like that. 

 

Anyway, good luck with the classes!  :cheers2: