Need guidance for Math - Please help!!!

[Abeilles]

My two children, dd age 10 and ds age 11 are both in 5th grade and have been thriving in all areas but math. Much of it due to my changing programs as they came home at different times, yet are same grade level. DD started hsing in 1st grade and she used RS Math B and Miquon. She was thriving and enjoying math. DS came home the next year in 2nd grade and also did Miquon (caught up to his sister) and also did RS Math B as I wanted to get them both at the same place (most likely my first error). I had wanted to do RS Math C but felt they were getting to old in 3rd grade. Tried MEP for a couple of years and just couldn't wrap my brain around it and DD disliked MEP immensely. Looking back, I should have split them up in 3rd grade for math, but selfishly kept them together to make my life easier. We also bought BA 3A - they really enjoyed it - DD gives up easily but she enjoyed it, but I was concerned it wasn't enough for a core program, so we set it aside to do the "real math program". So 2nd semester of 4th grade (last year) we started MM 4A - they were doing it and getting it, I thought, but as I tested them this new year with the chapter tests from 4A, there has been little retention! So here I am with 5th graders, who have completed MM 4A but with little retention. I don't love the program - I think it is effective and covers the basis but it is very time consuming with so many problems and I believe is just reinforcing my daughter's dislike of math (very busy pages, feels like drudgery and very little artistic beauty). She loved RS math, Miquon, and she is very artistic and creative. I am looking at putting them in a charter MS next year and they state all 6th graders enroll in 7th grade math for 6th grade (Carnegie program). They will also use the Outstanding Math Guide. I have never heard of this math nor seen reviews on the Hive, it is a common core aligned math (we live in SC).

 

So, first and foremost I need direction and wisdom on how to get my kids back on track for 5th grade math?!?!?! Do I do MM 4A again or skim over the main points and reteach those? Do I get the Key to series to hit decimals/fractions as they have very little in that arena?  I feel we are really getting behind and my children are seeing math as drudgery (probably picking up on my anxiety) when math is so much fun and amazing!!! How do I get them back on track and maybe even ready for this 7th grade math for 6 graders in a year???? I'm willing to try a new program and double up our load. Any great wisdom and insight is much appreciated as I'm feeling worried and stressed in this subject. Thank you!

[Abeilles]

This is what is listed on the middle school  website of what the 6th graders will need to know:

 

Essential Concepts for Entering 6^th Graders

 

Your student should have mastered the following concepts prior to entering 6^th grade . They will not be addressed except as building blocks for Math 7 concepts. Please complete this table with your student. This will inform you of your student’s strengths and weaknesses. The mastery of these concepts is essential for success in Math 7 for 6^th graders. 

 

Add ,subtract, multiply and divide 2,3 and 4 digit numbers

Multiplication facts thru 12

Add and subtract fractions with common denominators

Add and subtract fractions with uncommon denominators

Place value(left and right of the decimal)

Add and subtract decimals

 

[EKS]

I feel we are really getting behind and my children are seeing math as drudgery (probably picking up on my anxiety) when math is so much fun and amazing!!! 

 

Math, particularly arithmetic, is not always fun or amazing.  Don't beat yourself up over your children feeling that it can be tedious because it can.  

 

That said, sometimes what looks like little or no retention is actually just needing to be reminded.  I don't know if MM does this, but Singapore does a wide spiral where they come back to concepts each year and then build upon them.  It's ok if your kids need a refresher--really!  When you remind them, does it come back quickly?  If so, then you're on the right track.

 

This year, you might want to build more review into your lessons, but I wouldn't worry about what you perceive as a lack of retention.  True mastery can take most kids (even very bright ones) several passes through the material and it's really ok. 

[sbgrace]

You want a one year course to bring them up to that point? CLE is one idea. If they test into 4th, you could accelerate/speed up and get through 4th and 5th in a year. It spirals, so the retention will be there. You accelerate CLE by skipping tests and quizzes, and/or combing lessons (particularly if they are already know x or y). I also did math on Saturdays whenever possible and during the summer. We're going to be through 2 grade levels in less than one calendar year.

[Abeilles]

Thank you for your thoughtful response with some very valid points I need to remember.

Math, particularly arithmetic, is not always fun or amazing.  Don't beat yourself up over your children feeling that it can be tedious because it can.  

 

I agree but when their is a real dislike/hatred of math when it used to be enjoyable I have to believe it is either 1) the program isn't a good fit and/or 2) the child really lacks confidence in their abilities.

 

As far as the retention issue,  you made some excellent points. However, when they took their quizzes and we went over them, none of the previous knowledge was remembered. I am starting to think MM is not the best fit for them. 

[Abeilles]

You want a one year course to bring them up to that point? CLE is one idea. If they test into 4th, you could accelerate/speed up and get through 4th and 5th in a year. It spirals, so the retention will be there. You accelerate CLE by skipping tests and quizzes, and/or combing lessons (particularly if they are already know x or y). I also did math on Saturdays whenever possible and during the summer. We're going to be through 2 grade levels in less than one calendar year.

 

Thank you for your comment. CLE is nothing I had ever looked at or considered, yet after reading several posts and your comment, I am beginning to think it would be a viable option for a child who is really hating MM. It's just not getting done, enjoyed, or understood. What is also impressive is how quickly you can get a kid caught up with CLE - that makes it a very big selling point! I want them to be ready for Algebra in 8th grade!!! Thank you again!

[kiana]

I don't have a specific program recommendation, but when you do pick one, I want to add:

 

The first thing I'd recommend is working every day -- this increases retention as well -- and don't take holidays unless they're really important. Make math part of your daily routine, like brushing your teeth. I'd consider this superior to trying to double up on lessons.

[rochenan]

I think you might want to start by figuring out each child's strengths and weaknesses. Take the list you provided above and make a checklist for each child. This way you can figure out where to start and what the math program you choose should cover. Than look at The Outstanding Math Guide for 7th grade and see what will be expected of them. That way you can focus on the gap between what your children know and what they are supposed to be ready for next year. I did look at The Outstanding Math Guide website, but it wasn't overly helpful. The description on teacherspayteachers was much more helpful. It listed topics to be studied. It does look like it's just a series of interactive folders designed to be used as a reference, but not really a textbook or curriculum which leaves me to wonder if your charter school is also using another math book?

 

Maybe you could purchase the 6th grade Outstanding Math Guide as a reference for this school year?

 

I'm adding the links for the Outstanding Math Guide grades 5,6 and 7. Teacherspayteachers descriptions might give you a better idea of what will be covered prior to 7th grade math.

 

https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Outstanding-Math-Guide-OMG-7th-Grade-733900

 

https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Outstanding-Math-Guide-OMG-6th-Grade-733855

 

https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Outstanding-Math-Guide-OMG-5th-Grade-544691

 

[SporkUK]

For a 1-year programme to get them there for non-MM kids, I'd recommend Math Essentials [link in my signature]. Doing Book 1 [marked for 4th and 5th grade] alongside daily Math Trainer if they still need help with their math facts should get them to those goals - all of the things listed are covered. It's short, neat pages and videos are a real hit with my older 2 who did not get on with Mammoth Math and were getting bored of MEP so we moved Math Essentials to move them forward. It's specific teaching of doing operations on large numbers really helped one of mine. It's daily small review section and speed drills help with retention I find. 

[Spy Car]

If it were me, I'd take a 3 pronged approach:

 

1) Choose a good "conceptual" math program (like Primary Mathematics (Singapore), Math in Focus (Singapore), or Math Mammoth and move at a brisk pace at least 6 days a week with the goal of catching up to grade level. 

 

2) Add interesting suppliments that make math interesting an challenging (so it is not all "boring"). Beast Academy, Ed Zachary books, Singapore Intensive Practice, and the like. Split the day. 1 in the morning, 2 in the afternoon (or vice versa)

 

3) Do Khan Academy at night for "homework."

 

If decimals or fractions need remediation beyond this, the Key to... book are helpful. 

 

Go year-round.

 

Bill

[ScoutTN]

I don't have a specific program recommendation, but when you do pick one, I want to add:

 

The first thing I'd recommend is working every day -- this increases retention as well -- and don't take holidays unless they're really important. Make math part of your daily routine, like brushing your teeth. I'd consider this superior to trying to double up on lessons.

We don't do lessons on weekends, but we do often play games or do things like cooking or home repair that involve math. Board and card games have been super helpful for my kids in reviewing math facts and practicing basic skills.

[ErinE]

If you have all of math mammoth, I'd stick with the program but change the way it's used. Your child doesn't need to do all the problems.

 

You can skip problems and even whole lessons. Some concepts are broken into a series of lessons that build on themselves, but I found as DS progressed through 4 and 5, he quickly picked up the general idea and could demonstrate to me he understood.

 

When I used math mammoth, I would teach the lesson using a couple problems from the beginning of the lesson, then, using a highlighter, focus on the harder problems towards the end, especially word problems. If my child needed more review, I still had the unhighlighted problems to assign.

[LisaKinVA]

If it were me, I'd take a 3 pronged approach:

 

1) Choose a good "conceptual" math program (like Primary Mathematics (Singapore), Math in Focus (Singapore), or Math Mammoth and move at a brisk pace at least 6 days a week with the goal of catching up to grade level. 

 

2) Add interesting suppliments that make math interesting an challenging (so it is not all "boring"). Beast Academy, Ed Zachary books, Singapore Intensive Practice, and the like. Split the day. 1 in the morning, 2 in the afternoon (or vice versa)

 

3) Do Khan Academy at night for "homework."

 

If decimals or fractions need remediation beyond this, the Key to... book are helpful. 

 

Go year-round.

 

Bill

 

By moving at a Brisk pace, let me suggest you simply add in about 4 pages on weekends... this will speed it up, without being overwhelming.  I'm on #4 with MM, and 5 and 6 can be really tough levels (tedious).  The lower levels aren't as difficult, but you still need to practice facts outside of the lessons.  Games are great (there are lots of inexpensive card games, there is the Equate game, and other math games that will make this more fun).  

 

My kids have also enjoyed Life of Fred as a supplement.  None of them thought the Sing. Intensive Practice books were "fun."  ;)  The younger ones do like Beast Academy, and I wish I had those available for my older three -- they would have LOVED them.

 

Let me also just say, that some of what they are experiencing is probably age-related.  All of my children have given me some sort of trouble over something (too hard, boring, whatever) at this age.  If they were 5, or even 8, I might focus on changing the program, but at 10/11, it could just as easily be "growing pains."  By "growing pains" I mean that they are starting to struggle with wanting more autonomy (deciding what they want to do) vs. being a child (being told what to do).  Even my math-loving girl went through this (thankfully, it was short-lived).  We've had lots of conversations about what they like and don't like -- but in the end, sometimes there are things we *need* to do, even though we don't want to do them.  Retention can also play into this age (especially boys).  I don't think I will ever forget my 5th/6th grade son suddenly forgetting huge chunks of information, and not being able to identify a single part of speech (SWB has a funny story about this, too).  He did remember, but it took some coaching. Initially, though, he was dumbfounded.

[KSinNS]

MUS is also a good choice for catching a kid up. It's a much more expensive option than the others, but easy to use and customize. It is manipulative heavy, which it sounds like your kids will like. Do a placement test. They will likely start further back than you think because each book covers all of addition/subtraction, or multiplication, or whatever. Run through the easy stuff in each book quickly for review, then work through the harder materials more slowly. You do need to teach the lessons, but watching the videos will help you and the kids. Anyway, there are lots of good options. Good luck. 

[AEC]

If it were me, I'd take a 3 pronged approach:

 

1) Choose a good "conceptual" math program (like Primary Mathematics (Singapore), Math in Focus (Singapore), or Math Mammoth and move at a brisk pace at least 6 days a week with the goal of catching up to grade level. 

 

2) Add interesting suppliments that make math interesting an challenging (so it is not all "boring"). Beast Academy, Ed Zachary books, Singapore Intensive Practice, and the like. Split the day. 1 in the morning, 2 in the afternoon (or vice versa)

 

3) Do Khan Academy at night for "homework."

 

If decimals or fractions need remediation beyond this, the Key to... book are helpful. 

 

Go year-round.

 

Bill

I'll second this, with the possibility of substituting something in instead of Khan Academy, which I've not had good success with.  You will almost certainly, however, need something to help with learning arithmetic facts.  There's not a lot of getting around it - if you have to think to figure out 6+8 it's really difficult to think about the higher-level concepts.

 

 

We found the MathSprint books helpful for that (and it's easy to make them fun - who doesn't like racing?!?).  I also made simple practice sheets on excel, did flash-cards, etc.  Mix it up, but there's no real avoiding the need for math-facts practicing, in addition to a good conceptual math background.

 

It's totally possible to catch up, but it will be work.

[Tiramisu]

Evan Moor Daily Math Practice has five problems a day and over the course of a week hits most areas: addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, fractions, decimals, and geometry. It's really easy to add in without creating additional stress. It's also good for picking up weak spots in retention that you can then remediate. We're adding this to Singapore this year because of a problem with retention last year, and it's been really painless, even for my kid who hates school work.

[Abeilles]

If it were me, I'd take a 3 pronged approach:

 

1) Choose a good "conceptual" math program (like Primary Mathematics (Singapore), Math in Focus (Singapore), or Math Mammoth and move at a brisk pace at least 6 days a week with the goal of catching up to grade level. 

 

2) Add interesting suppliments that make math interesting an challenging (so it is not all "boring"). Beast Academy, Ed Zachary books, Singapore Intensive Practice, and the like. Split the day. 1 in the morning, 2 in the afternoon (or vice versa)

 

3) Do Khan Academy at night for "homework."

 

If decimals or fractions need remediation beyond this, the Key to... book are helpful. 

 

Go year-round.

 

Bill

Thank you so much Bill for responding to my post. I was hoping to hear from you as I have learned much from your math recommendations over the years. Question - is Beast Academy considered conceptual? And why or why not? Thanks in advance.

[Abeilles]

Thank you all for taking the time to help me in my hour of need. I appreciate all the insights and recommendations. We started CLE math 400 series working twice a day on math to get them back on track and will also include LofF and BA. We are not where I would like to be in math at this point but I at least see hope and they are enjoying and working the CLE quickly with retention. I'm hoping that we can work quickly to get back on grade level and be ready for middle school math and Alegebra when the time comes. Thanks again!