Beast Academy vs. MEP Maths vs. Singapore Maths vs. Galore Park for someone in the UK?

[foxglove]

I'm nearing the end of Year 3 MEP maths for my nearly 9 year old and frankly speaking, I don't think I have it in me (and neither does my daughter) to do another year of this. She hated MEP's logic questions most of the time. She liked the puzzles and the straightforward working out of answers. Got her in tears quite a bit. Getting her to sit through even half an hour of MEP has been like pulling teeth for the past 2 months - we have been doing MEP for about 9 months. While I love MEP myself, and I feel it is a solid Maths curriculum, I am not going to stick with it with her if I can help it.

I'm thinking of Singapore Maths for her, but I just cannot find any copies of Singapore Maths around here (I live in the UK) except for Levels 1, 2 and 3. I'm looking for Level 4 for her. I believe this is due to Singapore Maths creating a new UK edition for the UK market this year.

I'm now looking also at Beast Academy. Had a look at some of the sample pages on the AOPS website and it seems like a comic book and the concepts don't really look that hard at all?? I wonder what everybody's opinions are of these 3 curricula and how they compare to each other? My daughter is not weak at Maths really. She easily finished a whole year of Conquermaths in 3 months, every year, for the past 3 years. She finds workbooks available locally easy peasy. Something about MEP just doesn't gel with her. Maybe she just hates not knowing how to solve the logic/brainteaser type problems (so common in MEP) by herself. She takes so long to think of the answer, and after waiting a few minutes, I teach her how to solve it, and she is always miserable when I do that, but I see no other way. I cannot leave her to continue thinking about it... or the lesson would never finish. But I'm done with MEP for her now. I don't want her to grow up hating Maths when actually she used to love it.

I'm also a bit concerned about how foreign curricula might align with UK national curriculum. I know they don't have to align, but I prefer if they can graduate onto the next quite easily, as I plan to have her sit UK exams when she's a teenager. MEP is aligned with UK national curriculum. Singapore Maths is also quite similar as Singaporean curriculum for Maths is quite UK-influenced and all Singaporean school students take O levels at the end of their secondary school, although the version of maths they take is slightly different from the UK style - includes a few more topics than the UK ones.

EDIT : I'm also looking at Galore Park Junior Maths now. Wonder how it compares to Singapote Maths. Does anyone know?

[Dmmetler]

You may want to look at the Singapore edition of Singapore Maths (we used New Primary Maths). We found a U.S. Expat who was willing to ship to the U.S., so maybe that would work for the UK as well. My DD seems to do well with non-US textbooks.

 

Beast is deceptively simple if you just look at the comic book part. The meat, and the harder problems, are in in the practice book. Nothing AOPS puts out is standard grade level math, and often the stuff that's really hard looks easy from the outside. I do think that international shipping may be a bear, and AOPS doesn't work with resellers much.

 

Have you looked at Galore Park? I'm using them for British History and Latin, and like those books quite a lot.

[foxglove]

I have Galore Park Junior History and Junior Science (both Bk 1) for her the last year. Both books were ditched after a few months because she was groaning every time I brought them out. She is happier doing lapbooks instead nowadays. Never occurred to me to use Junior Maths for her but I suppose it might work. As long as it's not exasperating for her like MEP was, I suppose it can't be that bad.

 

Btw I had a better look at the practice books for Beast Academy and I really like the look of them. I think she'd find them more fun than MEP that's for sure. The price is high though... Will have to think about that.

[EmmaNZ]

We are currently in the UK. 

 

I haven't managed to find Singapore maths books anywhere for a year or so. I gave up looking! You can still get Math In Focus, which is kind of Singapore Maths written for schools. I have tried a couple of those levels (for my little boys, so can't speak for the Year 4 book) and its quite good. It is pricey though. I think I got them from book depository.

 

I've used Galore Park Maths (Junior Maths 1,2 and 3) too - we used them to whiz through at a slightly lower level. Like you, I was worried that if we used a US maths curriculum that we would miss something that they do in UK schools (we covered everything so you don't need to worry). My kids enjoyed Galore Park, and from my point of view I thought it was fine. It was clearly written for schools though, with multiple problems for each topic - we just ended up doing all the odd numbers. I also thought there was less actual teaching of the material - it assumes a maths teacher will cover the topic in addition to their explanation in the book.

 

I haven't used Beast Academy. 

 

We currently use Math Mammoth as our main maths - but I jump in and out of other things for reinforcement (can you tell??!) You might want to have a look at that? It's cheap, and its available as a download so it is dead easy to get hold of. The instruction is solid, if a little dull.

[kiwik]

I am in NZ and can order Singapore through either Christian Book Distributors or Rainbow Resources.  How about the free Indian downloads {NCERT I think}.  My nine key is dead so I can't do proper brackets.

[ChocolateMomster]

We have used all you mentioned. If your child doesn't do well with MEP, I would not do BA. The problem solving part of BA is excellent, but it's way harder than MEP, imo.

 

I've also used Singapore math, until it became unavailable. The english version doesn't look appealing from the sample, but it's really hard to tell.

 

If you want something that teaches UK measures and money, have a look at Math Mammoth. They come in ebooks. You could buy the grade level you need plus the British Money supplement.

 

[foxglove]

I've just spoken to a lady at Maths No Problem (the official UK supplier of Singapore Maths books) and she said they are only selling the UK editions from now on. They have new stock for Years 1 to 3 coming out next week, and Years 4 to 6 coming out in September. Yes the new layout seems quite different from the old-style Singapore Maths. I wouldn't say the old-style looked very appealing to me either. I just wonder how much of the original approach the new UK ones contain now.

 

I can see that ordering them from the US is a possibility (and not going to cost as much as Beast Academy), but there seems to be 3 US editions. Standards, Common Core and US. Not sure which is the one I need. And also I am concerned about units of measurement issues. Not the money units, as that is easily rectified, but the volume, weight and length units of measurement. Wonder if any of you using Math Mammoth, Beast Academy, etc. encounter these problems?

[foxglove]

Ah wait... I found an online shop based in Singapore now that sells all of the original Singapore Maths curriculum and ship worldwide. They are selling a full grade's material for something like $49. I might consider them. Wonder if anyone's used them before? Their website is at

 

http://www.sgbox.com/

 

I think I'd prefer to use Singapore Maths after consideration. Really would be my first choice. I would have to try out that seller.. I am wary of going for online sellers with little repute but they seem legit as they have a physical address. Hmm I don't know.

 

 

[mathnerd]

Ah wait... I found an online shop based in Singapore now that sells all of the original Singapore Maths curriculum and ship worldwide. They are selling a full grade's material for something like $49. I might consider them. Wonder if anyone's used them before? Their website is at

 

http://www.sgbox.com/

 

I think I'd prefer to use Singapore Maths after consideration. Really would be my first choice. I would have to try out that seller.. I am wary of going for online sellers with little repute but they seem legit as they have a physical address. Hmm I don't know.

 

 

Does Rainbow Resource ship worldwide? They have both SM and BA.

[EmmaNZ]

They do, but shipping from the U.S. is extortionate 😢

[foxglove]

Thanks for your suggestion but I wouldn't order from Rainbow Resources again after my experience last year.

 

I was slapped with hefty custom charges because they used UPS rather than Fedex and they don't provide the option of using Fedex. Well I found out from my experience that anything costing over a certain amount (can't remember what the amount was but my order came to about $50+ and was just the Grade 5 Hake Grammar textbook, workbook and teacher's manual) would be subject to custom charges if shipped by UPS from the US to UK, as it will involve having to go through Royal Mail or ParcelForce (UK state-owned postal services). Royalmail/Parcelforce like to charge customs fees first then you have to claim it back (minus any phonecalls, postage charges incurred to report a claim in the first place)...

 

 

If they used Fedex however, it might not have happened. I say this because quite a few people here ordered whole curricula direct from Sonlight, which uses Fedex to send to the UK, and they've never been issued custom charges. Sonlight packages tend to cost and weigh more than what I ordered. I contacted Rainbow Resources after that to let them know this and I asked them to consider using Fedex for UK orders in future, but not sure if they ever really decided to put that in place. They also did not send me tracking info for my package. I had to use their online chat facility to ask for this. All in all wasn't the best experience of buying from them. I'm sure they're fine for US customers though!

[foxglove]

The shipping from Singapore on SGBOX website isn't cheap either. I think it came up to about £20 when I checked. I'm still considering whether it's worth paying nearly £100 in total for the original Singapore Maths for my 2 kids to be shipped all the way from SG.

 

Or I could wait till September and order the UK Singapore Maths version of books direct from the UK supplier... But it wouldn't really be the same thing. Would cost about £50 in total if I got the UK version of Singapore Maths for both my children from a UK supplier. That's half of what it costs to order the original version from Singapore. I might try that.

[EmmaNZ]

Foxglove, I really think you should take a look at Math In Focus. It is pretty much the same as Singapore Maths (same mental math/conceptual focus), and I have to say I find it easier to use. You can buy it on book depository, so although the books themselves are on the more expensive side the postage is free.

[EmmaNZ]

FWIW, I also didn't like the look of the new Math No Problem (Singapore style UK) books. 

[foxglove]

The UK supplier of the Singapore Maths books said this on their website:

 

"Math in Focus is being withdrawn from the UK market by the Publisher, Marshall Cavendish Education, along with all of their other existing primary maths programmes. We strongly suggest any schools or individuals migrate to Maths — No Problem! series which is aligned with the 2014 English National curriculum."

 

Why are all these Singapore Maths books all being withdrawn from the UK market except for the UK version one? No choice at all. I will now look at how much it'd take to ship the Maths in Focus books to UK etc. Is it easy to teach from EmmaNZ?

[EmmaNZ]

I have no idea what is going on with Singapore Maths - there are so many different titles it makes my head spin. And why we must only have the national curriculum approved one is beyond me. Typical British imperialism!

 

Anyway, I think I am talking about a different Math In Focus. That Marshall Cavendish one was written for the UK, but there is a Houghton Mifflin one written for the US. Its still easy to get hold of here (amazon and book depository). It has been easy to teach from, although as I said upthread I've only used the lower levels. Those levels are just like what I taught my older guys when we had Singapore Primary Maths (had to leave behind in NZ  :thumbdown: ).

 

Here's the grade 4 book:

 

http://www.bookdepository.com/Math-Focus-Homeschool-Package-1st-Semester-Grade-4/9780547428819

[EmmaNZ]

Or just throw in the towel and use Math Mammoth, which uses much the same approach in a no frills PDF.

[foxglove]

Alright in fact, after thinking about it for a few hours, I'm half sold on using Math Mammoth :)  I did take a look at the sample material. I'd still prefer the original SIngapore Maths edition, but the price is so different. I wouldn't say it is very alike to SIngapore Maths though but it should be okay. Well, if we get it, we'll try it out and see.

 

[kiwik]

The shipping is awful to NZ but we don't have import duties on books and under $400 doesn't currently get charged GST (like VAT).   I would go with math mammoth in that case.  I don't need a full curriculum so I use MM and get the Process Skills books from CBD who have the best shipping for small numbers of books.  I do prefer the topic books for Math Mammoth though.

[foxglove]

I think I am going ahead and ordering Math Mammoth. I had a look at more of their material now that I have access to a laptop (was on my phone all day) and I liked the look of the topic books. Just probably going to wait till August to buy them as the kids want a break for summer.. I do notice that some of the stuff covered in the complete curriculum we'd probably end up skipping or just going through really quickly and doing maybe just a page worth, as the MEP curriculum was so rigorous that my kids are already quite well-versed in some things that are above their grade level, but I'd probably still just get the complete curriculum to save the trouble of having to work out what gaps to fill before buying (also it seems not much cheaper to just buy topic books).

Children's printed material aren't taxed here too but Royalmail/Parcelforce charged custom duty first, and then the onus was on me to prove what the shipped items were, unless it clearly states on the package what the contents are, i.e. "Children's books" or something similar. Actually yes that was another issue I raised with Rainbow Resource after the incident. They'd put the words "Gift" or something else on the customs declarations sticker on the delivery box, but basically they didn't write "Children's books", which meant customs had no idea what was really inside the parcel, so I got charged customs first. The Rainbow Resource lady insisted they would have put "Children's books" though...Anyway I was eligible to claim the charges back from Customs and Excise, but of course didn't get the full amount back in my pocket due to the phonecalls and sending letters I'd made in order to claim it back. Just a lot of trouble I wish I didn't have to go to. Not all Rainbow Resources' fault, and was a good learning curve for me.

[Julie of KY]

I'm not a big fan of MEP in the primary grades, though I like it more starting with level 7.

 

I love both SM and Beast - very different however.

[foxglove]

MEP Primary and Secondary are really different. I have a near teenage daughter who has been doing MEP Secondary as a supplement to Conquermaths, and she finds it okay now and doesn't cry when she does it. She was an MEP hater when I tried the Primary levels on her a couple of times in the past. I just had to ditch MEP Primary back then with her because of the constant tears whenever she did it. I'm not convinced the Secondary MEP is enough on its own for her to get a good grade in her GCSE Maths. She is planning to take GCSE Maths next year as the last batch of students able to take that exam in the UK (with the Maths GCSE exam reforms coming into effect), so I bought a popular Edexcel GCSE Maths student book for her to study from (which is a complete course in itself), and that, plus doing as many past papers as she can before the exam, would imo be better preparation for the exam than doing the MEP books. But I'd use MEP as supplements if she needs extra material to work on.

Pity none of my children really got on with MEP. I personally thought MEP Primary was a really strong curriculum, and it's free of charge too.

[yinanyinu]

A little late to the game, but I hope my comments will still be useful to someone.

 

As far as ordering from Singapore (sgbox) is concerned, I've only ever ordered my SM materials from them and it has been seamless. I try to order a few years' worth of materials at a time, in order to reduce the 'impact' of the shipping. I also always choose the cheapest option, which is often very slow surface mail.

 

As for the materials themselves, I haven't used any other materials for my children, and don't supplement, so I can't compare, but obviously I feel that SM is enough. DC do the complete package, including all the practice books, word problems, etc. A total of 6-7 books. The textbook and workbook themselves are engaging--with colour drawings and some math games at the end of each chapter. But beyond the first year, I never referred to the textbook, and DC zipped through the workbooks that accompanied the textbook. I didn't even need to 'teach' the material, other than in the beginning, explaining new ideas/vocabulary like "bond pairs". The value of SM for us lie in the additional practice books, especially the word problems.

 

Strangely although DS tested way above grade level in math, he struggles with the SM problems, only managing to do the A-group problems easily!! He can get some of the B problems, but often only manages 1/3 of the C problems without assistance from me. (Which is to say, I have no idea what his test results mean.)

 

In summary, I'm all for SM, even with high shipping from Singapore, but I wouldn't buy only the textbook and companion workbooks. If that were the case, I would suggest getting something closer to home, that is more economical. I believe that a strong math student can work with any curriculum, and any student can become strong with enough practice.

[Laura Corin]

 

EDIT : I'm also looking at Galore Park Junior Maths now. Wonder how it compares to Singapote Maths. Does anyone know?

 

I used both.  I think that both are good programmes, but, for me, Singapore does a better job of teaching concepts and understanding.  That being said, one of my sons just wanted to get maths done, without thinking too much about it, so GP was good for him.

 

If you are worried about alignment and are home educating long term, I'd do Singapore Primary Maths then go on to Galore Park So You Really Want to Learn Maths 1, 2 and 3.  You will then be extremely well prepared to begin a GCSE course.

[Dmmetler]

In the U.S., military families can ship back to the U.S. cheaply, which is why I got SM from an overseas mom vs SGbox-their shipping was quite high. Does that work in the UK? I'm in a military area, though, so can usually find someone who knows someone stationed in pretty much any country.