tibbyl Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Would depend upon one's definition of human life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenayofRohan Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Life begins after 40. I've just started my journey. How about you? Except for my varicose veins, it's been ok. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 As a Christian, I don't believe that Soul life begins at birth. Here is why: There are scriptural laws against causing a woman to lose a child. I also believe that it is possible to receive saving grace BEFORE birth as attested by John the Baptist leaping at the presence of Christ while both he and Christ were in utero. Unborn children do have a sense of self while in the womb. That has been proven by their reactions and some retained (though few cases to come to light) memory (read Gianna). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alenee Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I agree with Sen. Biden's response on Meet the Press yesterday (if anyone happened to see it). He said that he believes that life begins at conception...however...what gives him the right to dictate morality? To dictate right and wrong? The decision is between the woman, her doctor, and her God, whoever she might believe that God to be. He has no right to push *his* personal religious beliefs on anyone else. I think I actually agree with him. People are gonna do what they're gonna do. The more we make laws about morality, the more freedom we take away not just from those who would do an immoral thing, but also from ourselves. I can certainly speak against it but to make a law imo is not the right thing to do. ETA: Not meaning to debate. Just responding to the above quote. I voted when sperm and egg meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanestMomInMidwest Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Life begins after 40. I've just started my journey. How about you? hmmm...since I just recently turned 40, I've been thinking life is half over at 40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I'm a bit pickier --I chose other. when sperm MEETS egg isn't really precise enough. My vote is for when fertilization is complete and you have a diploid individual. even "conception" can be vague: The term "conception" is not usually used in scientific literature because of its variable definition and connotation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilization#Humans We'll never get *anywhere* on this issue until: 1) The pro-reproductive rights folks understand those who believe abortion = murder. 2) The anti-abortion rights people understand those who believe that women need to have a protected legal right over their bodies and reproductive issues. 3) We all realize and admit that the issue isn't "when does life begin" or whether a woman, after pregnancy, should abort. The issues relating to abortion start months, and even years before conception or sex. ( for both genders) I'll take your 3 and add #4: 4) acknowledging scientifically when a human life begins is irrelevant to the issue of reconciling the rights of two individuals :) I'd suggest you make a companion poll: When should a developing fetus be given rights independent of those of the mother? i covered my thoughts on this in the ectogenesis thread. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53976&highlight=ectogenesis My body reacts that way when invaded by viruses, bacteria, and parasites--other life forms. Not to equate a blastocyst with a parasite on every level, but the latter doesn't really follow the former in the above argument. agreed. and actually, it IS pretty close to a parasite. ========== My thoughts on scripture, knowing that people can accurately interpret different conclusions and still be a Christian :D i tend to follow what science finds. God is the Ultimate Scientist and most of what science knows either correlates somehow w/ scripture or will as soon as the scientists find conclusive evidence that may alter their theories ;) about humans and life- Job 3:16 is sometimes used to discuss a "human being" backed up w/ God saying Job spoke nothing incorrect. However, since Job also says that there is "rest" for EVERYONE in death, the description of hell doesn't exactly spell out a "restful" situation. :eek: I haven't done a word study on that verse to make sure we know exactly what those words meant when Job used them. Leviticus 17:11 specifically defines life as being in the blood, but it appears the context is talking about atonement and everlasting life, not scientific literal life since plants are life too. breath of life is certainly one way to look at it, but when God gave dry bones the breath of life i don't think He was talking about respiration. Ruach --breath/spirit/wind -- are often used interchangeably but always denote "from God." I don't tend to base my decision here on the legal laws in the Bible, otherwise slaves wouldn't be life or human beings either ;) i think that's about it for now...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelda Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I answered "I don't know" but that's not quite true b/c the question is "When do YOU BELIEVE..." and not, "When does...". I've typically felt that implantation was that point. But that's never affected how I feel about abortion. I think society sanctions many types of murder with mind-boggling inconsistency as to the standards. I've never really landed on one side or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay in Cal Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 See, I approach this question another way. I would indeed consider early loss of implanted fetuses as miscarriages, but I answered "another time in pregnancy" because don't think that they are without implantation and detection. Otherwise, every time you get your period and have had intercourse, it is likely a "miscarriage". I think I've read up to 80% of fertilized eggs don't implant, or do and are lost in the first day or so before the time of your next period.. yet I don't have a mourning period or funeral every time I get my period. In fact, pregancy tests only detect successfully implanted fetuses, not fertilized eggs, so there is really no way for the average woman to know. If you truly believe that those balls of cells that might be lost each month are human beings, then is menstruation a time of death and mourning? I don't know that this is that relevant to the abortion debated (other than the "morning after" pill that prevents implantation--although IUDs also prevent implantation, and for some reason that isn't considered abortion, per se), but it is an interesting question about the meaning of "life". As for individuals, of course my reply would be according to their own feelings of loss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I believe that life begins sometime later in pregnancy. However, the mother's life and rights always take precedence over those of a fetus, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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