Spelling for child with visual memory issues

[twinkletoesmomma]

I have tried so many curriculums

Spell to Write and Read

AAS (up through level 5)

Apples and Pears (into level 3)

Evan Moore Building Spelling Skills

Reading Horizons (mostly reading decoding, but some spelling)

 

This child is finishing 7th grade.  He was in VT for 8 months 3 years ago where they remediated for convergence, tracking, visual memory, etc.  He has improved a ton.  Financially, we can't afford any more VT.  He was making leaps and bounds in progress and then leveled off.

 

I truly believe his issue is that he has limited visual memory.  He will not know how to spell a word immediately after practicing it for 15 minutes.  The only thing that has remotely worked is when I have him visualize the word in his head and change the color he sees it in, what is the 3rd letter from the end, spell it backwards, etc.  Even that didn't have amazing results, only minimal.  If he tries to do this on his own, it doesn't work.  I have to be there working with him which takes about 15 minutes per word 5 days a week for him to be able to spell it at the end of the week.  Honestly, it doesn't happen since it is so time consuming.

 

What can I do?  I need some sort of curriculum or game plan for his 8th grade year.  My goal is basically for him to spell well enough that spell check will recognize the word!  

 

 

 

[PeterPan]

Is he dyslexic?  Have you done a psych eval?

[twinkletoesmomma]

We have not done a psych evaluation.  My husband lost his job last year, so we don't have the money to do that right now anyway.  The vision dr said that he has visual dyslexia for sure, saying it manifests the same way as regular dyslexia.  I'm not sure the difference except that my ds doesn't have all of the language issues that are on Dyslexia checklists.  He spoke at a very young age (2 word sentences at 10 months), but he did (before VT) have issues with reversals and left/right directions.  Handwriting is illegible unless he writes slowly and very carefully.

 

So, if he does have dyslexia, what can I do to help him spell?

[sbgrace]

Possibly dyseidetic dyslexia? That would probably look like spelling phonetically, but wildly wrong. I think dysgraphia goes with it often, and it sounds like that may be an issue as well. You might use dyseidetic (I think that's the spelling!) term in searching here and online, as it does have to do with those who have the phonetic understanding, but can't remember the visual. Even if it's not that, the same things would likely help.

 

Do look ahead at time tables and make sure you have a formal diagnosis (dyslexia and/or dysgraphia if they apply) in time to request accommodation for ACT/SAT testing and college. I think this is probably the best thing you could do for him.

 

 

I'll throw out a couple of things. My son doesn't have such extreme issues, but he does have a really poor visual memory for spelling. I used Apples and Pears through 3, but he fell apart in 4. Even in Apples and Pears, I added techniques like closing your eyes, visualizing the word, and then spelling it backward. I also had him write the word, placing the problem/tricky letters in a different color or something similar so he keyed in on the visual. I'm using Spelling Power now, adding in the spelling backward part and chunking words like we did in Apples and Pears. I work on very few words at a time, and review missed words regularly (on my own...I did that with Apples and Pears too...I just keep a running list of any missed word, placing a checkmark or x beside words as we cycle back through the list. If he misses one, it goes on the present practice list until we move it back to the review list; I don't know if I explained that well! But it takes a long time to call a missed word mastered so we stop practicing occasionally).

 

I would try to see what people with kids with that form of dyslexia do. I know Seeing Stars works on visualization, but it's reading oriented. I don't know that it transfers to spelling or would help in this situation.

 

[twinkletoesmomma]

Yes, I believe he may have dyseidetic dyslexia.  That is what the dr mentioned.  He knows his phonics, just doesn't know when to apply them correctly.  

We did all those spelling backwards, visualizing in a different color, etc. and it is the only thing that remotely helps.  He needs me to guide him through that process each time.  

I do have an issue with review.  It takes forever to get any missed word off the list, and then the list is way too long!

 

I do need to remember the time table for college/SAT accomodations.  I think the diagnosis needs to be within 3 years.  I definitely need to look into that!

 

[PeterPan]

You might want to go through your ps (assuming you're in the US) and get evals.  Experiences vary, but they *can* get these things diagnosed.  They can run a CTOPP or other test of phonological processing, achievement testing, something for IQ (to look for discrepancy), and an OT eval for dysgraphia.  They could have someone screen him for CAPD.  The ps could do all that for you.  Our ps didn't give us a write-up, but we went in with psych evals already.  I've see people in other districts who got full reports.  

 

So the ps would be a very sensible place to start.  And for whatever they don't cover, does your state have a children's insurance program?  I'd be asking them to cover it.  I think you're looking at more than a dyslexia label, just mho.  

[MomOfABunch]

Words Their Way is a great spelling program you may want to try.

[ondreeuh]

My 7th grade son is very, very similar and we have used many of the same programs (he is using E-M Building spelling Skills 3 right now). The ONLY thing I have found that helps is having him spell it out loud while he writes it. He doesn't like to do it, but creating an auditory memory of the spelling is so much easier for him than creating a visual memory.

[FO4UR]

I don't think my dyslexic is as severe as yours, but much of that sounds similar.  In fact, I may try asking mine to visualize the words in different colors.  That may help.

 

 

Anyway...Essentials in Spelling Grade 2 reformatted (linked in my siggie) was made with the intention of taking a slow and steady approach, with LOTS of visualization work.  I use cursive with it b/c I think that writing words in cursive helps my ds click with seeing the word as a whole, and not some random grouping of letters without meaning. (Not to mention the issue of reversals!!!) I think cursive is key for many kids.

 

6 words a day, and there is a tight spiral so only 2 of those words are new each day.  There are daily sentence dictations to cement the words.  The words used are of the Ayer's List of common words.  If sentence dictations are brutal, do the cover-copy method.  Cover the sentence, copy it.  Peek as needed, but you must cover it again before you resume writing.  That little trick helps train the brain to visualize.

 

If you don't want to use cursive, you can always use the original public domain text.  

[Heathermomster]

DS used to trace each spelling word three times with a pencil while saying the letters aloud..  Afterwards, DS closed his eyes and table wrote the word with his finger while speaking the letters aloud.  He also used clapping and stomping as he spelled especially difficult ones, and he chunked words.

[PeterPan]

Heather, hold that thought and remember, it, because I think I'm gonna need it in a few years!  :D

[Heathermomster]

Heather, hold that thought and remember, it, because I think I'm gonna need it in a few years!   :D

The way we used to practice spelling shocks me.  I was following orders from the Wilson tutor and knew nothing about phonics.  I'm fairly certain DS has a mild case of both the visual and phonics based dyslexia.  

 

DS also did a cover copy method for spelling.

[FO4UR]

DS used to trace each spelling word three times with a pencil while saying the letters aloud..  Afterwards, DS closed his eyes and table wrote the word with his finger while speaking the letters aloud.  He also used clapping and stomping as he spelled especially difficult ones, and he chunked words.

 

 

Have you read Making the Words Stand Still?  That's a fascinating look into the world of a visual-dyslexic.

 

What you describe sounds similar to the author's self-coping technique.

[Heathermomster]

Have you read Making the Words Stand Still?  That's a fascinating look into the world of a visual-dyslexic.

 

What you describe sounds similar to the author's self-coping technique.

No...We followed the recommendations of the Wilson tutor.  Even though DS started getting 100% on spelling tests, he was never consistent, and he still cannot look at a word and detect a spelling problem.  Last August during normed achievement testing with the NP, he tested at or above grade level in spelling.  DS scores very high with the spatial reasoning and the verbal processing.  None of this stuff makes sense to me.

[Heathermomster]

I just thought of something.  Son's Wilson tutor was also a certified Slingerland tutor.  Son's tutor pushed the kinesthetic avenue of learning in a huge way.

[PeterPan]

Heather, remind me, your ds has or has not had a proper COVD eval to look at visual memory?  It would be really curious to see whether kids where parents are saying "visual dyslexia" actually have kids with extremely poor visual memory.  Dd's was age equivalent of a 2 yo when she was tested at 11.  Sorta explained why spelling wasn't sticking, lol.  But if someone has an age-appropriate visual memory and STILL has visual memory issues for spelling, that would be informative.  Then it's not the memory but the ability to connect memory and language or memory/language/motor planning, kwim?  Then your approach is different.  

 

Just thinking.

[geodob]

The ability to Visualize, isn't something that we are born with?

Rather it is an acquire skill, that children typically take around 8 years to learn how to use.

Where it is integrated with Spacial thinking, so that they can visualize in 3D.

 

An important thing about visualizing, is that eyes work in the same way as if we were actually looking at something.

Where the eyes move around as they look at the image, and also change focus.

It also needs to appreciated, that any 'vision issues', will equally effect visualizing.

 

Though I've been doing study and research into the developmental process of Visualizing, for about 9 years.

Also trialling a remedial approach to later development of it, including a number of Dyslexics over 60 years of age.

Who were still able to develop the ability to visualize.

So perhaps some of you might like to try this method?

But it does later require buying special equipment, such as 'match-boxes' and as many as 4 of them.

Also understanding the different levels of visualizing?

Where a basic principle of Vision, is that images are constantly erased to be replaced by the next one.

Which happens about 4 times each second.

So that the first stage, is to be able to 'Capture' an image?

Which very briefly holds an image in our working memory.

So for example, if you look at # can you still recall it at the end of this sentence?

 

Where this is the starting point, and identifying whether an image can be briefly captured?

But can you still recall what that symbol was ?

If you can? Then it had been transferred to your short term memory.

 

Though the first step, is identify whether an image can be captured?

As for some people, they can't capture an image and it has been erased.

Where they can't even understand how this image could still be seen?

But something that can help them to understand it?

Is to have them briefly look at a lit light globe and immediately close their eyes?

Most likely, they will see a trace image of the light globe, when they close their eyes.

 

Which might seem trivial? But can be the first time that they've seen a visual image in their minds eye?

So that they can see and start to understand what this Visualizing is.

With this method that I have been developing, it starts at a point of no ability to visualize, and understanding of it.

Which can be worked through, to identify what ability they may have developed?

That can then be worked on from.

 

But a major focus is with understanding what can be done with Visualizing, rather than just learning the skills.

How to take an image and transfer it to short term memory, and then start to shift it to long term memory.

 

Then a further stage, is to practice and learn how to take an image, and re-arrange elements within it.

Or add or take away elements from it.

 

Though the focus is with understanding the potential Visualization, rather than simply learning it as a skill.

 

Can you still recall the symbol that I used above?

[Heathermomster]

Heather, remind me, your ds has or has not had a proper COVD eval to look at visual memory?  It would be really curious to see whether kids where parents are saying "visual dyslexia" actually have kids with extremely poor visual memory.  Dd's was age equivalent of a 2 yo when she was tested at 11.  Sorta explained why spelling wasn't sticking, lol.  But if someone has an age-appropriate visual memory and STILL has visual memory issues for spelling, that would be informative.  Then it's not the memory but the ability to connect memory and language or memory/language/motor planning, kwim?  Then your approach is different.  

 

Just thinking.

Yes, we saw a COVD and visual accommodation issues were noted.  COVD sent us to the OT to address developmental motor.  I don't recall anything being said about VM.  

 

I always assumed the issue was rooted with motor planning.  The 2nd np stated as much, dyspraxia runs on DH's side, and the PT mentioned DCD last fall.  

 

We listened very carefully to the tutor and did what she told us.  If I understood phonics back then as I do now, I would have made DS mark his spelling words; of course, it may not have worked.  

[PeterPan]

It would be under visual perception and is a separate test they have to run.  Did they do a full developmental eval and give you a report?  If so, then that should be in there.  If he had the physical issues, you could go back and get that rerun (if it was low before or not run) to make sure that's not part of the issue.  Like I said, dd's visual memory was that of a 2 yo when she was eval'd.  And you get into this curious irony geodob is leading you up to, where you have a person who would *typically* be VSL who in fact is not VISUALIZING to even use their VSL brain bent.  Crazy, eh?  It was after VT that her VSL side kicked in.  The theory is that most kids with ADHD should in fact be VSL, go figure.