ISO: A simple, all-in-one language arts program, encompassing grammar, lit, spelling, etc.

[pehp]

I am planning my son's third grade year and am pondering our LA choices.  So far we have taken a somewhat CM approach to LA.  For instance, this year we:

 

*read and narrate (brief narrations, daily) 

*do copywork from our readings (one or two sentences daily--his handwriting is better than mine!)--I point out punctuation, capitalization, etc when we do this

*mosey through R&S spelling (not very CM, but it makes me feel good to have 'something' to do spelling-wise at this point) 

*use R&S English as a jumping point of sorts for teaching concepts--I don't really teach strictly from the book 

*whiz through OPGTR (I'm just using it to cover concepts, again--to make sure our bases are covered. My son is basically reading very well on his own at this point, so I do not feel we *need* it anymore, but we'll finish it up this year)

*do ETC several times a week. He just began Book 4 and does fine.  Boring, but probably effective in reinforcement. Again, not at all CM-y, but I feel like it is teaching him something. 

 

We will not finish the 2nd grade R&S spelling or English by the 'end' of this year (I will be taking the summer off from formal LA work...but we'll still read every day)

 

My son does copywork and ETC on his own.  I work with him on narrations, spelling, english and OPGTR. He is very capable of managing his own work as long as he understands what he's supposed to do.  

 

I was considering using k12 LA next year (independently) but the more digging I do, the less inclined I am to use it.  My fantasy is that I would have a simple, all-in-one, CM/classical-ish language arts program that requires very little planning on my part and is cohesive--in other words, I wouldn't be throwing in spelling from here, phonics from there, etc.  Just straightforward and inclusive, little planning, and easy to implement (the less I am involved, the better, although I am content to facilitate and teach to the extent that I am needed--ideally he'd be in charge of copywork, *most* of his spelling, phonics, and my heaviest involvement would be for grammar and narrations....). 

 

Does anyone know of anything that might be a close fit?  TIA!

 

[Insertcreativenamehere]

Have you considered Christian Light? I do supplement writing, but I'm using it now for 2nd and 4th grade and have found it quite thorough and straightforward for grammar, spelling, penmanship and phonics.

[Hunter]

Learning Language Arts through Literature.

https://www.commonsensepress.com/covers.htm

 

I haven't used the red and blue books and just started with yellow. The earlier levels are different than yellow though gold.

 

There is nothing amazing about LLATL other than it's all-in-one and covers all grades.

 

You can teach with just the teacher manuals and do not need the student books. Those teacher manuals are often very affordable used. The publisher sells e-books; beware that delivery is NOT instant and can take several days.

 

LLATL is solidly adequate. It get the job done. Sticking with this program and not hopping around will be superior to nonstop hopping and trying to cobble together 10 programs none of which get finished.

 

Many of the novel units are just blah and lower levels don't include the level of literature analysis that very recently become the norm. The orange level includes a research writing unit that includes sending away for information about a country by snail mail and that freaks some moms out as entirely outdated. I personally am not phased by any of this and even agree with some of it, but these are frequent complaints.

 

Some people also claim the assignments are too quick to complete and don't contain enough review. This has never been a problem here, because I reinforced the lessons that were applied to the literature to whatever else we were doing that week.

 

Some people really want the literature assigned to be available as eBook. ELTL has taken a big chunk out of LLATL sales with it's public domain literate, but ELTL is not entirely all-in-one.

http://barefootmeandering.com/site/lessons-through-literature/eltl/

[pehp]

Hunter, these look very appealing to me.  I had never seen either one before--THANK YOU!  Is the reason you say ELTL is not entirely all-in-one b/c you have to purchase the books separately?  Or is there something else  that I'm not seeing that makes it not all-in-one? 

Learning Language Arts through Literature.

https://www.commonsensepress.com/covers.htm

 

I haven't used the red and blue books and just started with yellow. The earlier levels are different than yellow though gold.

 

There is nothing amazing about LLATL other than it's all-in-one and covers all grades.

 

You can teach with just the teacher manuals and do not need the student books. Those teacher manuals are often very affordable used. The publisher sells e-books; beware that delivery is NOT instant and can take several days.

 

LLATL is solidly adequate. It get the job done. Sticking with this program and not hopping around will be superior to nonstop hopping and trying to cobble together 10 programs none of which get finished.

 

Many of the novel units are just blah and lower levels don't include the level of literature analysis that very recently become the norm. The orange level includes a research writing unit that includes sending away for information about a country by snail mail and that freaks some moms out as entirely outdated. I personally am not phased by any of this and even agree with some of it, but these are frequent complaints.

 

Some people also claim the assignments are too quick to complete and don't contain enough review. This has never been a problem here, because I reinforced the lessons that were applied to the literature to whatever else we were doing that week.

 

Some people really want the literature assigned to be available as eBook. ELTL has taken a big chunk out of LLATL sales with it's public domain literate, but ELTL is not entirely all-in-one.

http://barefootmeandering.com/site/lessons-through-literature/eltl/

 

[Raining Pineapples]

We just purchased ELTL Level 2 (pdf download) and plan on using it now through summer. We will still do a separate spelling program and vocabulary program. From the few minutes I've spent looking at it, they don't seem to cover those subjects they way I'd like. The 3 day week will allow us to slowly start MCT in the fall. 

 

Did you download the free sample? I think it covers the first 2 weeks. 

[pehp]

I haven't downloaded the sample yet--I should be able to do it and look at it this week. Raining Pineapples, what about the spelling/vocab do you not like? I really am seeking something that is comprehensive enough to stand on its own.  I am going to tear my hair out if I have to supplement something that should be all-in-one...some people excel at this, but I don't!

[greyseal]

We used ELTL 1 and are now in the middle of 2. This covers grammar and lit, all with books we can get at a low/no cost. We also use the phonics/spelling portion of LOE, which I find to be very open and go. This combo of materials works very well for us, but LOE is an investment to be sure. An investment I feel has been worth it, but an investment nonetheless.

 

 

[SnMomof7]

We use CLE. It isn't super CM, but it is VERY comprehensive. And independent.

[Susie in MS]

A huge fan of LLATL here. My older children (who are now grown and have lives of their own) used LLATL from the Tan book through the Gold books. My youngest has used part of the Blue, all of the Red and Yellow, and is working on the Orange. We are excited about the Purple coming up. We have never found the lit to be bland at all. I guess that is all a matter of opinion though. I have looked at LLTL and what attracted me to it was the classic lit they chose. But when I looked at the lessons they didn't offer all that I was looking for, though what is there seems very good. 

 

My children have all enjoyed LLATL and it has served us well. They all know their grammar, and how to write well. 

 

A note about the spelling. It is not all taught within the spelling lessons. There you will only see about 6 words. However there are other lessons not labeled "spelling" which teach rules, and spelling is taught via dictation and copywork. It is suggested you pull misspelled words from your child's work to add to the list. Some people prefer to just add another spelling list. I have taken words from Wheeler Speller (free at google books) and from a Rod and Staff speller I just happen to have. I call out the words on a list and mark if my dd gets any wrong. Often times I have to go thru 3 or 4 list before I get 6 misspelled words to add to her spelling list for the week. This tells me that either my dd is a natural speller or she learns a lot from her copywork and dictation and reading. To me this is more efficient than having her work in a list of 20 words she already knows.

[hollyhock]

Hunter, thank you for mentioning that LLATL is available as ebooks. I had no idea and it just came in very handy.

[pehp]

Thanks, ya'll! I am definitely going to check out LLATL in a more in-depth manner.  I would really like to just have something that includes grammar, spelling, lit.  I love the classics.  I will look at the LLATL booklists.  I liked what I saw when I glanced at ELTL too. 

 

I haven't really examined CLE closely at this point, but I may take another look.  I need to look at the literature they use.  We are using R&S spelling and English now, and it is adequate, but I'm not at all committed to it.  

[FawnsFunnyFarm]

I haven't looked at them in a long time, but what about the elementary version of Lightning Literature from Hewitt Homeschooling?

[sweetpea3829]

A good quality all-in-one LA program is like the holy grail of homeschooling...lol.

 

LLATL is one of those programs that folks either love or hate.

 

We've used Blue, Yellow and Red.  I have not liked any of the levels.  It is outdated (it REALLY needs an update), the literature selections are meh (not to mention, they are somewhat below grade level...at least for my kids), and it is very very light.  Thus far, I have not found it to have decent composition, either.  

 

The spelling is poor, too.  I have supplemented pretty much all aspects of it.  To the point that, I have frequently asked myself why I'm still using it.  But...I had been told that the yellow level was better and so, I resolved to stick it out through the end of yellow.  

 

Next year, we are ditching it completely in favor of EIW, AAS and literature studies.  I may also add in a grammar component, if I find EIW to not be sufficient enough.  

 

 

[PentecostalMom]

I used LLATL with oldest ds and he was solidly in the top of his college classes both with grades and professor opinions.  I was appalled at some of the writing of his college classmates, as they went to a rather expensive private school where ds participated in sports.  LLATL is comprehensive and thorough.  He was a poor speller from Day 1, even way back when I used Abeka.  I did end up having him use the Apples: Daily Spelling Drills for Secondary Students book, which improved his spelling dramatically in a short time.  I have tried so many LA programs over the last 15 years and understand the need for an all-in-one program.  We will begin the 4th grade book soon, after becoming bogged down in WWE and FLL.  The LLATL lessons actually have some of the same components of WWE.  I have discovered that many publishers have very similar content, just different layouts and lit selections.  I think LLATL is worth a try.  It's rather inexpensive and readily available.

 

Every kid is different and every mom is different, you have to find what works for you. 

[amyc78]

I am intrigued by LLATL. It appears to be a mainly CM, slightly classical all-in-one program in workbook form? Mostly independent? Sounds too good to be true :)

Do you do one lesson per week? How much time on average per day?

I have an excellent reader who needs to spend more time on the mechanics of writing- both penmanship and sentence / paragraph structure. He needs a thorough intro to grammar but sentence diagramming is not necessary. 

[sweetpea3829]

It's more than one lesson per week.  One of the strengths of LLATL is that it is very open and go.  The week is all laid out, what you should do each day.  I would say a lesson is ~max~ fifteen minutes.  Usually, we get the lesson done far quicker.

 

There is a teacher's manual which, beginning in yellow level (so 3rd grade) is written to the student, however the answers are RIGHT THERE ON THE PAGE.  

 

There is a student workbook as well.  I do some direct teaching with my two students, and some independent work.  The dictations, for example, are direct teaching.  As are certain grammar lessons that I want to make sure they really get.  

 

Thus far, there has been very little direct writing instruction...if that is what you're looking for, I would suggest something else.  Unless the higher levels of LLATL have more in the way of direct writing instruction.  Somebody else who has used the higher levels might want to chime in on that.  

[Susie in MS]

I am intrigued by LLATL. It appears to be a mainly CM, slightly classical all-in-one program in workbook form? Mostly independent? Sounds too good to be true :)

Do you do one lesson per week? How much time on average per day?

I have an excellent reader who needs to spend more time on the mechanics of writing- both penmanship and sentence / paragraph structure. He needs a thorough intro to grammar but sentence diagramming is not necessary. 

 

LLATL is mostly independent once the child gets to the Orange level. Like SP mentioned you do need to call out the dictation and the spelling words. 

 

1 lesson per week divided into 5 daily sections. Very easy to use.

 

Yes, the answers are on the page of the TM. If one uses only the TM the lessons will need to be done orally with the parent leading. 

 

15 min a day for the younger levels is about right. As the program goes up in age range so does the time spent. By the time you get to the gray level the writing assignments and/or reading can take an hour give or take.

 

What age is your child who needs more practice in penmanship and writing? LLATL takes on the belief that not much writing mechanics are to be taught to young children (like Charlotte Mason). There is some, but not a writing program worth. Most people do not use the penmanship in the Blue, Red and Yellow levels as the font is quite large. It is also not daily. For that my recommendation is Pentime. Beautiful font yet inexpensive. The writing instruction increases each year. My 4th grader is in the Orange book and she has a newspaper project, a state research project, make a poetry book, and make  a storybook. There is compare and contrast, character sketch, summarizing and yes sentence and paragraph structure. These take more than 15 mins to be sure. 

 

If you go to www.cspress.com you can view a s&s of each level and sample lessons. I would view of more than one level to get a good idea of the program. 

 

As far as thorough intro to grammar, LLATL does not hold the belief that grammar needs to be overbearing. Not sure what you mean by thorough as everyone's idea is different. LLATL is gentle Much is taught via dictation with a few sentences to label instead of a large number of sentences to label. There are also the occasional fun games or projects to reinforce the lessons.  Make sure to check out the samples to see what I mean. 

[PentecostalMom]

I am intrigued by LLATL. It appears to be a mainly CM, slightly classical all-in-one program in workbook form? Mostly independent? Sounds too good to be true :)

Do you do one lesson per week? How much time on average per day?

I have an excellent reader who needs to spend more time on the mechanics of writing- both penmanship and sentence / paragraph structure. He needs a thorough intro to grammar but sentence diagramming is not necessary. 

 

Sometimes old, tried-and-true are better than new-and-shiny!  I have the super old versions with no separate workbook.  I just ordered one of the newer versions from CBD to see how much has changed.  It will be interesting to see.  It is even more like the others than I remembered, now that I actually pulled out.  Narration, dictation, etc.  Makes me LOL @ myself.

[PentecostalMom]

It's more than one lesson per week.  One of the strengths of LLATL is that it is very open and go.  The week is all laid out, what you should do each day.  I would say a lesson is ~max~ fifteen minutes.  Usually, we get the lesson done far quicker.

 

There is a teacher's manual which, beginning in yellow level (so 3rd grade) is written to the student, however the answers are RIGHT THERE ON THE PAGE.  

 

There is a student workbook as well.  I do some direct teaching with my two students, and some independent work.  The dictations, for example, are direct teaching.  As are certain grammar lessons that I want to make sure they really get.  

 

Thus far, there has been very little direct writing instruction...if that is what you're looking for, I would suggest something else.  Unless the higher levels of LLATL have more in the way of direct writing instruction.  Somebody else who has used the higher levels might want to chime in on that.  

 

I have a couple of the old, older books but I haven't compared to see what has changed.  Ds (the one that did excellent in college writing) used LLATL all the way through, but the older books.  I will try to compare lesson-by-lesson from the Common Sense Press website and post back.  I ordered a 4th grade book for my dd, so I won't have the older one in hand.

[Hunter]

Some of the older books are very different from the revised books, but I think the old orange and purple are almost the same as the new ones. Also the older books are meant to be used with an OOP grammar book that is sometimes hard to get.

 

If the older series had completed the series like the first few books that is what I would have used. But the books were not all written at the same time and as time passed the authors obviously changed methods a bit and became a little less Ruth Beechick. The newer series is at least consistent even if I'm not as thrilled with new direction. Also the newer series comes in eBook which is nice.

 

ELTL is NOT meant to be entirely complete. There is a separate phonics program. ELTL is CM and neoclassical. The author has a yahoo group where you can ask more. I really would ask HER what subject are covered and how.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/barefootragamuffins/info

 

LLATL is meant to be entirely complete and it is complete to ME. It is Ruth Beechick based, which by the OLD definition could also be called CM, but no longer as the definition of CM goes through rapid changes. LLATL is more 1990s back to basics bluecollar than ELTL. I personally LIKE that, but it is offputting to others.

 

The author of ELTL has created a program that is eclipsing LLATL, but will never replace it. There are pros and cons to both programs.

 

LLATL Yellow includes handwriting. Blue and Red are quite a bit different from later levels. For levels Orange through Gold there is a wonderful consistency and efficiency that is very attractive to some families. It's doable. Just really really doable. There are daily lessons. There are workbooks if you can afford them. If not, you can definitley just use the TM and spend a bit more time with the student.

 

To fully appreciate LLATL I recommend reading Ruth Beechick's The Three R's.

 

If someone wants a CM/neoclassical education with a 4 year rotation and wants to juggle lots of slow readings, Wayfarers and ELTL is one of the best new curricula on the market. And the author's yahoo group is friendly, welcoming, inclusive, and SUPER helpful.

 

If a mom is more back to basics, let's just get it done, I think LLATL is the better option after Red and Blue. I have ZERO experience with Red and Blue. Way too many pieces for me!

[pehp]

Some of the older books are very different from the revised books, but I think the old orange and purple are almost the same as the new ones. Also the older books are meant to be used with an OOP grammar book that is sometimes hard to get.

 

If the older series had completed the series like the first few books that is what I would have used. But the books were not all written at the same time and as time passed the authors obviously changed methods a bit and became a little less Ruth Beechick. The newer series is at least consistent even if I'm not as thrilled with new direction. Also the newer series comes in eBook which is nice.

 

ELTL is NOT meant to be entirely complete. There is a separate phonics program. ELTL is CM and neoclassical. The author has a yahoo group where you can ask more. I really would ask HER what subject are covered and how.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/barefootragamuffins/info

 

LLATL is meant to be entirely complete and it is complete to ME. It is Ruth Beechick based, which by the OLD definition could also be called CM, but no longer as the definition of CM goes through rapid changes. LLATL is more 1990s back to basics bluecollar than ELTL. I personally LIKE that, but it is offputting to others.

 

The author of ELTL has created a program that is eclipsing LLATL, but will never replace it. There are pros and cons to both programs.

 

LLATL Yellow includes handwriting. Blue and Red are quite a bit different from later levels. For levels Orange through Gold there is a wonderful consistency and efficiency that is very attractive to some families. It's doable. Just really really doable. There are daily lessons. There are workbooks if you can afford them. If not, you can definitley just use the TM and spend a bit more time with the student.

 

To fully appreciate LLATL I recommend reading Ruth Beechick's The Three R's.

 

If someone wants a CM/neoclassical education with a 4 year rotation and wants to juggle lots of slow readings, Wayfarers and ELTL is one of the best new curricula on the market. And the author's yahoo group is friendly, welcoming, inclusive, and SUPER helpful.

 

If a mom is more back to basics, let's just get it done, I think LLATL is the better option after Red and Blue.

 

Hunter, is the only thing missing from ELTL the phonics portion?  We are using OPGTR/ETC (modified to suit me) for phonics and this seems to be working just fine; my son is a pretty fluent, slightly-ahead-of-grade-level reader at this point.  So missing out on phonics wouldn't destroy us.  

 

I am especially interested in looking at the lit both programs use.  

 

THANKS for ALL these helpful replies!!

[Hunter]

Hunter, is the only thing missing from ELTL the phonics portion? We are using OPGTR/ETC (modified to suit me) for phonics and this seems to be working just fine; my son is a pretty fluent, slightly-ahead-of-grade-level reader at this point. So missing out on phonics wouldn't destroy us.

 

I am especially interested in looking at the lit both programs use.

 

THANKS for ALL these helpful replies!!

I really would ask the author not only which subjects are covered, but HOW they are covered. There are definitely some subjects that are not as EXPLICITLY covered even if they are counted as covered. CM was a less explicit teacher than Ruth Beechick. The author of ELTL is AMAZING. Don't be afraid to sign up and post some questions. The author can answer your questions about ELTL so much better than I can. My favorite part of ELTL is the use of public domain texts. That is a HUGE plus.

 

I don't mind the titles in LLATL at all, but I do hate having to track down copies of titles that I'm not excited about. It's an extra challenge to be ready with whatever books are needed when I am tutoring homeless women. If you are just teaching your own children though and can plan ahead, you can get great deals at thriftbooks.com and betterworldbooks. Sign up for e-mails and wait for a sale and stock up on the books that you need.