Still Pondering History - AP Gov, AP Human Geography

[Reefgazer]

I have three questions about high school history:

 

1) Is it realistic, or desirable, to take AP Gov and non-AP US history concurrently? Is it realistic to take AP Gov before U.S. history?

 

2) Does AP Human Geography include physical and political geography of the countries under study?

 

3) Is non-AP geography a semester or year-long course?

[Luckymama]

1. I think some background in US History would be advantageous before AP US Govt. I think dd's 8th grade US History using the K12 book, American Odyssey, would have sufficed.

 

2. AP Human geography contains physical, political, and cultural geography as those factors relate to the people of the counties. A student would do better in the class if he/she already can identify major counties and regions.

 

3. It can be either :) We did a year-long geography course in seventh grade (along with history). Dd's using knowledge from that work every day in APHG. (But of course it helps that I designed both classes ;))

[Reefgazer]

DD will have a solid background in middle school US history before AP Gov, so that is reassuring. Do you think high school US history would be doable with AP Gov concurrently?

 

1. I think some background in US History would be advantageous before AP US Govt. I think dd's 8th grade US History using the K12 book, American Odyssey, would have sufficed.

 

2. AP Human geography contains physical, political, and cultural geography as those factors relate to the people of the counties. A student would do better in the class if he/she already can identify major counties and regions.

 

3. It can be either :) We did a year-long geography course in seventh grade (along with history). Dd's using knowledge from that work every day in APHG. (But of course it helps that I designed both classes ;))

[FloridaLisa]

Reefgazer,

 

1) A solid middle school study of U.S. history should be fine for APUSGov & Politics.  My dd took it in 9th grade and did very well in the class (well, I taught it but still.) and on the exam. She had several years of debate under her belt which helped her.  APUSGov is not hard to understand. And the history needed for the class and for the exam would be in a good AP textbook.

 

2) AP Human Geography is mostly cultural geography. Ds had an excellent background in political geography. Again, anything needed for the class/exam should be included in the materials. 

 

3) We never did geography in high school. 

 

And as to doing both non-AP US history and APGov concurrently? Manageable depending on what else is on the plate. 

 

Lisa

[AFwife Claire]

Do you think high school US history would be doable with AP Gov concurrently?

 

Absolutely.  My oldest ds took (regular) US history at Potters School last year (and thought it was an easy A, but enjoyed it).  He self-studied for AP government (and by that I mean he did some reading in the textbook, and then went through some of a test prep book--the REA Crash Course one, I believe).  He got a 5 on the test, which astounded both of us, because he really do not do too much in the way of prep.  The court cases definitely overlapped with US history, which helped.  I think AP gov. has to be one of the easiest tests.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

AP Human Geography includes some brief discussion of political geography but not much.  It is mostly cultural. A knowledge of basic political geography is helpful.  I think a non-AP geography course could be either a year or semester depending on the content.  For geography be sure you differentiate between political/cultural geography and physical geography.  Physical geography is much more of a science course than social studies-closer to earth science.

 

I would say not desirable to take AP US Gov with another history course.  Is it ok/realistic-sure,depends on your kid and the rest of their schedule.  If your kid has a basic understanding of US history I think US Gov would work at any time, if not then you may want to take them together or after US History.  I think studying some of the supreme court decisions in absence of any historical knowledge would be harder.

[Reefgazer]

Would you call AP Gov a half credit or full credit.  I was thinking a half credit, but maybe not.

AP Human Geography includes some brief discussion of political geography but not much.  It is mostly cultural. A knowledge of basic political geography is helpful.  I think a non-AP geography course could be either a year or semester depending on the content.  For geography be sure you differentiate between political/cultural geography and physical geography.  Physical geography is much more of a science course than social studies-closer to earth science.

 

I would say not desirable to take AP US Gov with another history course.  Is it ok/realistic-sure,depends on your kid and the rest of their schedule.  If your kid has a basic understanding of US history I think US Gov would work at any time, if not then you may want to take them together or after US History.  I think studying some of the supreme court decisions in absence of any historical knowledge would be harder.

 

[Reefgazer]

I can't figure how to multi-quote.  Gah!  Would you all consider AP Gov a 0.5 credit or full credit course?

Reefgazer,

 

1) A solid middle school study of U.S. history should be fine for APUSGov & Politics.  My dd took it in 9th grade and did very well in the class (well, I taught it but still.) and on the exam. She had several years of debate under her belt which helped her.  APUSGov is not hard to understand. And the history needed for the class and for the exam would be in a good AP textbook.

 

2) AP Human Geography is mostly cultural geography. Ds had an excellent background in political geography. Again, anything needed for the class/exam should be included in the materials. 

 

3) We never did geography in high school. 

 

And as to doing both non-AP US history and APGov concurrently? Manageable depending on what else is on the plate. 

 

Lisa

 

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think the typical expectation is that AP US Gov is 1/2 credit and AP Comp. Gov is 1/2 credit.  I also think that many schools run them together as a full year and call it 1 credit.

 

I would be tempted to check out how your local school district credits the courses.  I did have one school tell me that my homeschooled kid would be evaluated by the admissions counselor who managed the region we live in not a special person for homeschoolers and as such would have courses put up against local school offerings and typical sequences.

 

Many of the sample syllabi on College Board's site show them as half year courses.

 

 

[Luckymama]

My son's competitive-entry private school treated AP US Gov as a full-year course (the regular level was half-year). The kids in that class did so much non-busy work that year and came out incredibly well-read. Their teacher was a former Senate staffer.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I've seen AP Gov taught as both a one semester course and as a full year course. I don't think you'd have trouble finding great work to do to fill the full year.

It is often done as a senior year course. Some explanations were that it helps to follow APUSH or that it's good to gave students who are new voters. I think it's at least in part because its not the hardest AP. For students who are interested in politics, who have a general understanding of US history and who like to consider issues it is a natural fit. My kids were 9-10 grade when we did AP Gov as was another kid in my coop group who took the test. All scored at least a 4.

 

Also AP Govt exams have short free response answers not essays.

 

When done as a one semester course I've seen the other semester done as AP Economics (there are two courses). Comparative Government was a blast but is one of the smallest courses AP does so make sure you would have a testing site.

[swimmermom3]

AP Human Geography includes some brief discussion of political geography but not much.  It is mostly cultural. A knowledge of basic political geography is helpful.  I think a non-AP geography course could be either a year or semester depending on the content.  For geography be sure you differentiate between political/cultural geography and physical geography.  Physical geography is much more of a science course than social studies-closer to earth science.

 

I would say not desirable to take AP US Gov with another history course.  Is it ok/realistic-sure,depends on your kid and the rest of their schedule.  If your kid has a basic understanding of US history I think US Gov would work at any time, if not then you may want to take them together or after US History.  I think studying some of the supreme court decisions in absence of any historical knowledge would be harder.

 

Why would it not be desirable to take AP Gov with another history course?

 

[swimmermom3]

I can't figure how to multi-quote.  Gah!  Would you all consider AP Gov a 0.5 credit or full credit course?

 

Mulit-quote is not a feature all board members have for whatever reason. I lost my privilege a few months ago. :tongue_smilie:

[swimmermom3]

My son's competitive-entry private school treated AP US Gov as a full-year course (the regular level was half-year). The kids in that class did so much non-busy work that year and came out incredibly well-read. Their teacher was a former Senate staffer.

 

Both of the AP Government classes with PAHS are full year courses. I think it depends on what you want out of the classes.

 

[swimmermom3]

I've seen AP Gov taught as both a one semester course and as a full year course. I don't think you'd have trouble finding great work to do to fill the full year.

It is often done as a senior year course. Some explanations were that it helps to follow APUSH or that it's good to gave students who are new voters. I think it's at least in part because its not the hardest AP. For students who are interested in politics, who have a general understanding of US history and who like to consider issues it is a natural fit. My kids were 9-10 grade when we did AP Gov as was another kid in my coop group who took the test. All scored at least a 4.

 

Also AP Govt exams have short free response answers not essays.

 

When done as a one semester course I've seen the other semester done as AP Economics (there are two courses). Comparative Government was a blast but is one of the smallest courses AP does so make sure you would have a testing site.

 

Because we like pain and agony, what about APUSH with AP Government for a kid who likes government? I'd like to do Comparative, but I have to double check with the high school if they will give the test.

 

ETA: Ack, Karen, I didn't mean to digress. I am just thinking that history and government should  make a nice partnership.

 

[madrekts]

Have taught these to co-op classes several times.  We do APUSH, AP GoPo and American Lit during the same year.  This is very helpful for the kids, as the courses dovetail (remember to factor this in when planning the syllabi).  For example, I don't have to spend time on the Salem Witch Trials in APUSH because the kids are reading "The Crucible" in American Lit.  Spending a lot of time on the ratification debate of the Constitution or the evolution of political parties in AP GoPo frees up time in APUSH for other things.  Very doable for any student who can get over the APUSH bar in terms of reading volume, and writing DBQs.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Because we like pain and agony, what about APUSH with AP Government for a kid who likes government? I'd like to do Comparative, but I have to double check with the high school if they will give the test.

 

ETA: Ack, Karen, I didn't mean to digress. I am just thinking that history and government should  make a nice partnership.

 

 

I think that many kids would be able to study for both.  I'm not sure if there would be burn out, given the changes to the APUSH course this year.

[Reefgazer]

AP Gov and US History (non-AP) was what I was thinking to "double-up".  My DD reads copious amounts of everything, especially science and history, along with novels.

 

What are DBQs?

Have taught these to co-op classes several times.  We do APUSH, AP GoPo and American Lit during the same year.  This is very helpful for the kids, as the courses dovetail (remember to factor this in when planning the syllabi).  For example, I don't have to spend time on the Salem Witch Trials in APUSH because the kids are reading "The Crucible" in American Lit.  Spending a lot of time on the ratification debate of the Constitution or the evolution of political parties in AP GoPo frees up time in APUSH for other things.  Very doable for any student who can get over the APUSH bar in terms of reading volume, and writing DBQs.

 

[Penguin]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/do-you-know-what-a-dbq-is/2013/05/12/a010e906-b845-11e2-92f3-f291801936b8_story.html

 

DBQ stands for Document Based Question. DBQs are a type of question on the AP exams.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Why would it not be desirable to take AP Gov with another history course?

 

 

Critical to my answer is the word "desirable".  I'm not sure that combining AP Gov classes with history is "desirable".  It can be advantageous or useful but not necessarily desirable. 

I don't think there is any desirability  (ie. high level of preference for) to taking AP US Gov with a history course that is not US History.

 

This was my answer to the OP's first question:

 

1) Is it realistic, or desirable, to take AP Gov and non-AP US history concurrently?

 

 

There are two ways to take the OP's question-I took it to mean non-US history.  The other option would be to mean not AP level but regular US history.  If one takes it to mean non-AP level then, yes I could see an advantage to taking US history with AP US Gov.

 

Is there a problem with combining AP US Gov with a history course or with an AP history course.  Not necessarily.  It is up to what you think is best for your kid with regard to the work load.  Is there an advantage to taking AP US Gov with some form of US history or in a semester immediately following  US history-quite possibly.

 

I have one kid taking APEH and AP Comp Gov together this year.  Just how the schedule played out-is it "desirable", no not really.  Impossible-no not really.  Same kid may do US history and gov together next year-just how the schedule played out.

[Reefgazer]

I should have been clearer on this.  I meant taking AP Gov alongside US History, but not APUSH.

Critical to my answer is the word "desirable".  I'm not sure that combining AP Gov classes with history is "desirable".  It can be advantageous or useful but not necessarily desirable. 

I don't think there is any desirability  (ie. high level of preference for) to taking AP US Gov with a history course that is not US History.

 

This was my answer to the OP's first question:

 

 

There are two ways to take the OP's question-I took it to mean non-US history.  The other option would be to mean not AP level but regular US history.  If one takes it to mean non-AP level then, yes I could see an advantage to taking US history with AP US Gov.

 

Is there a problem with combining AP US Gov with a history course or with an AP history course.  Not necessarily.  It is up to what you think is best for your kid with regard to the work load.  Is there an advantage to taking AP US Gov with some form of US history or in a semester immediately following  US history-quite possibly.

 

I have one kid taking APEH and AP Comp Gov together this year.  Just how the schedule played out-is it "desirable", no not really.  Impossible-no not really.  Same kid may do US history and gov together next year-just how the schedule played out.

 

[swimmermom3]

I should have been clearer on this.  I meant taking AP Gov alongside US History, but not APUSH.

 

You were clear and I muddied the waters.

 

I want to do both AP classes together next year, because they support each other and cross over in some areas. I wish we would have been smart enough to do Comparative Government with AP Euro like another poster mentioned.  I like having context for our literature and fine arts studies and think the same would work for government.