Struggling to priortize English goals given exam requirements vs what I think he should know

[lewelma]

Oh wow. This is exactly how my admissions exams were like in the USSR. I can't tell you how many pages out of literature I had memorized to be able to quote for support. They took points off for each punctuation mistake. This isn't going to be helpful, but the standard study approach was to write several essays per each novel/literary work. These topics were somewhat predictable, so we would sit with our own essays (ton of them) and read and reread and reread before exam times. The idea was that the essay topic would be close enough to our practice essays so we could write a formulaic piece fast in those three hours. The memories make my hair stand up on my back.

 

YES!  This is exactly what the kids do.  Exactly.  But God, do I really want to put my math-loving, literature-loving boy through that? 

[Roadrunner]

YES! This is exactly what the kids do. Exactly. But God, do I really want to put my math-loving, literature-loving boy through that?

I really feel for him.

On the other hand I was glad I was prepared. I don't think I could have handled the anxiety.

[Laura Corin]

Thinking further:

 

When I didn't know which country my sons might end up in for university, I decided just to concentrate on one country's requirements, then adapt in the future as necessary.  That's what most people who study overseas do.  So, for example, there's a girl from Calvin's year at school who didn't get into any universities in the UK (her 'safety' requirements were higher than she finally achieved in her exams).  She has taken a year to apply to US universities, prepared for and did well in the SAT and is doing some other great activities to fill up the year.  In general, overseas universities want to see your home country's education plus a bit extra, so for the US, it's the UK 'high school' achievement plus the SAT.

 

So, in your shoes, I would concentrate hard on the NZ requirements, then (if necessary) take a fabulous gap year that includes preparing for any other country's requirements that become necessary at that point.

 

Good luck

 

L

[lewelma]

 

So, in your shoes, I would concentrate hard on the NZ requirements, then (if necessary) take a fabulous gap year that includes preparing for any other country's requirements that become necessary at that point.

 

 

This is a very good idea.  It would allow us to only finish the 11th grade exam in 3 years, rather than reaching for the 12th grade exam so he can go to Australia.  Gives me more time!

 

As for a gap year,  ds will be just that much more competitive on the IMO if he is a year older, so filling a gap year would be very straight forward.  Music, Math, and Mandarin!

 

[Laura Corin]

This is a very good idea.  It would allow us to only finish the 11th grade exam in 3 years, rather than reaching for the 12th grade exam so he can go to Australia.  Gives me more time!

 

As for a gap year,  ds will be just that much more competitive on the IMO if he is a year older, so filling a gap year would be very straight forward.  Music, Math, and Mandarin!

 

 

Glad that helps.  It can be hard to step off the treadmill, stand back and realise that there is actually time to work with unusual circumstances and children.

 

L

[8filltheheart]

I would let him read BK.

 

But, I would also assign more essays for him to write. I don't think he is a struggling or poor writer. I don't think he has any issues preventing him from being able to produce essays quickly. I think the problem is as simple as he hasn't had enough practice writing essays so that the process is still slow for him. It sounds like with more practice he will become more fluent.

 

I also would let him get that practice across disciplines. Writing essays in science and history will transfer to easier essay writing about lit. He just needs to write.

 

I would save exam prep for a couple of months prior to the exam. Build his skills the way the should be built. Once he possesses them, then he can make them morph into what is needed for the test.

[Penguin]

As usual, I think that Laura C is right.

 

I faced planning 9th grade with paralysis until I let go the idea of chasing Pre-IB, IGCSE exams, AND an American diploma.

[Laura Corin]

I would save exam prep for a couple of months prior to the exam. Build his skills the way the should be built. Once he possesses them, then he can make them morph into what is needed for the test.

 

Yes and no.  You have to work with the system as you find it where you live.  In the UK (and it sounds as if NZ might be similar) the course is the exam prep.  This is not teaching to the test in the sense of learning to spit out pat responses.  Instead it is going so deeply into the exam-preparation curriculum that you feel that you could rewrite the works yourself.

 

For reference: between the ages of 16 and 18, I studied (as far as I recall) the poems of Keats and Tennyson; three plays by Oscar Wilde; Our Mutual Friend; and Measure for Measure.  The skew to the works is due to our teachers choosing a 19th century option.  Each of the works was studied for a term, making five terms in all, with the sixth set aside for exam preparation (learning appropriate quotations, etc.).  Instead of (as far as I understand it) in the US system, reading a fair number of books and doing one or two pieces of work on each, you read very few books, and each in great depth.  I wrote about every possible aspect of each of those works - overarching themes, detailed analysis of passages, everything.  I knew them as completely as any teenager could.

 

Do I think it was narrow?  Well, yes.  But it was deep, very deep.  I came out of it with a fairly extreme appreciation for the artist's craft.  And when I went to university, and was reading a work a week (in French) I could go to the heart of them in no time.

 

So, if the NZ system is similar to the UK one, you are completely at liberty to leave exam prep to a big splash at the end, but your marks will be set against those who have been scuba diving through the works for years.

 

L

[8filltheheart]

Yes and no.  You have to work with the system as you find it where you live.  In the UK (and it sounds as if NZ might be similar) the course is the exam prep.  This is not teaching to the test in the sense of learning to spit out pat responses.  Instead it is going so deeply into the exam-preparation curriculum that you feel that you could rewrite the works yourself.

 

For reference: between the ages of 16 and 18, I studied (as far as I recall) the poems of Keats and Tennyson; three plays by Oscar Wilde; Our Mutual Friend; and Measure for Measure.  The skew to the works is due to our teachers choosing a 19th century option.  Each of the works was studied for a term, making five terms in all, with the sixth set aside for exam preparation (learning appropriate quotations, etc.).  Instead of (as far as I understand it) in the US system, reading a fair number of books and doing one or two pieces of work on each, you read very few books, and each in great depth.  I wrote about every possible aspect of each of those works - overarching themes, detailed analysis of passages, everything.  I knew them as completely as any teenager could.

 

Do I think it was narrow?  Well, yes.  But it was deep, very deep.  I came out of it with a fairly extreme appreciation for the artist's craft.  And when I went to university, and was reading a work a week (in French) I could go to the heart of them in no time.

 

So, if the NZ system is similar to the UK one, you are completely at liberty to leave exam prep to a big splash at the end, but your marks will be set against those who have been scuba diving through the works for years.

 

L

 

That sounds like an excellent approach.  I wonder if Ruth would be willing to take that approach with her son?  I personally think no matter what approach she takes, commitment to the time to develop the skills is the key. 

[swimmermom3]

Thanks, Lisa. It's pretty hard to know what to expect the first time through.

  

 

Interesting. So I think you are suggesting writing on non-lit topics (stuff he reads in the Economist), while continuing to discuss literature. Then, once he is fast and confident, switch to lit analysis. Yes!

 

I think there would be a revolt. He already writes between 2 and 4 full page single spaced proofs each week. But I hear you. More is better. He can write proofs at speed because last year he wrote and received feedback on about 120. So far I have laid out 12 papers for this year and I think it will be hard to get them all in. So he is just not practicing enough. But I don't see how he will have time for more, when each one takes 5 hours. Perhaps we need easier topics than IS, which took him 5 hours to read-up on and then 5 more hours to formulate and write an argument, for as you know that area of the world is very very complicated!

 

Ah, so part of the problem is how we are defining "papers." I am thinking enough paragraphs to present, support, and conclude an argument - an essay. Both the AP Lang. and Lit. essay have a multiple choice section and then three free response questions to be written in 2 hours with an additional 15 minute reading period.  The Lang. test requires a "synthesis" essay where the student analyzes 6-10 documents and uses several of them to craft an argument.  Here are links to both sets of FRQs so you can see the prompts and actual student samples that have been scored:

 

AP Language

AP Literature

 

Now that we are in the second semester, ds will probably have more Friday assignments where he will have to write 3 essays in 45 minutes each. Last year, when he first did this, he could never finish the essays and his scores were in the 3-4 out of 9 range.  This year, he can usually conclude them and he is in the 6-8 range. The instructor often allows them to revise one essay for a few extra points, but only if it is truly improved. I think both years have featured one longer essay with citations that were submitted to writing contest like the one for the Peace Institute.

 

 

Well, if you have to write a literary analysis with support quotes from the text and you have to do this in an exam situation, then you have to memorize useful quotes from your studied text. All the kids do it. They don't know what the questions will be, but can get a general idea (something on characterization, something on plot, etc) so they make sure to have quotes they can use. Odd, I know. How does the AP lit exam work?

 

Actually this does make sense and I really appreciated Laura's explanation of her exam preparation. That puts your son's exam into a new light for me and I would think that "exam prep" the last couple of months would indeed be too late.  I'd still tackle the writing skills first, focusing on that (still across disciplines) for much of the first year and then maybe start on one of the works your son will use on the test. That would give you the second year to go deep for three or four other works and revisit the one from the previous year.  Are you able to search for teacher syllabi for school classes that prepare for the exam?

 

 

 

[lewelma]

Laura,  I want to thank you for explaining what I was having so much trouble writing about with any clarity.  What you have described is exactly what I came to realise about a week ago.  The exam prep *is* the course.  They are one in the same.  Which is why I was starting to believe we need to focus solely on literature for the next 2 years, rather than doing it my own way and then squeezing in exam prep. 

 

It has just completely thrown all of my planning.  My plan *was* to dabble in lots of different literature and mixing that with the study of nonfiction and writing persuasive essays in history, current events, and civics.  Now, I feel like I need to put all my eggs in one basket and do a full course of focused attention on lit analysis just like all the other kids will be doing.  And I know that they will be writing 5 essays on one work just like Laura said was done in the UK.  But I feel like Lisa does "Writing 5 essays on ONE work is flogging it to death - especially in high school. Do not make the boy do this, please."  So now I am like :willy_nilly: and definitely :(

 

8, I hear you.  More writing.  I will make it happen.  I'm thinking right now of this three week rotating schedule:

weeks 1&2: Mon- Thurs - discussing literature (which he loves) and coming up with a thesis and supporting points each day for practice

            Friday - 2 hour timed writing - persuasive on civics, current events and history

Week 3 - all week to write a literary analysis independently.

 

This would bump up the number of papers he writes from 12 to 36 each year. All this would require is 1 extra hour per week (so 2 hours on friday instead of 1), and losing one day of discussion.  I think he will be willing to do this.  :001_smile:

 

So in each 10 week term, he would write 3 essays on the same piece of work, and we would have outlined many many more during our discussions. If I pick something he likes, I think it will be ok.  Currently, it is Lovecraft and we are learning so so much reading his own literary analysis of horror.

 

Here is the first 3 sentences of this 50 page paper.  When we read the third sentence, we were like :blink:  and once we got it, were like :hurray:

 

The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown. These facts few psychologists will dispute, and their admitted truth must establish for all time the genuineness and dignity of the weirdly horrible tale as a literary form. Against it are discharged all the shafts of a materialistic sophistication which clings to frequently felt emotions and external events, and of a naively insipid idealism which deprecates the aesthetic motive and calls for a didactic literature to uplift the reader toward a suitable degree of smirking optimism.

 

[lewelma]

  I personally think no matter what approach she takes, commitment to the time to develop the skills is the key. 

 

We will prioritize whatever is most important.  If communication skills need to come to the top then we will put them at the top and give them hours.  However, we will have to cut something else because I am unwilling to *add* more hours to his schedule.

 

His current weekly schedule (not counting most of this term which is highly skewed to math)

English - 5 hours discussion/writing

History - 4 hours

Science - 5 hours

Mandarin - 5 hours

Music - 7 hours

Math - 15+ hours

 

This is about 40 hours per week

 

And it excludes:

PE - 6 hours

Reading literature - 7+ hours

Summer courses of 25 hours per week of math

 

Point is, if I am going to put more time to English, I have to steal from somewhere and I know it is not going to be math.  It might need to be history and mandarin as neither of those will he be tested in.  I will talk to him and we will decide where his priorities should lay.