Need help pulling together some science stuff!

[Cakes]

I posted on another thread that I dislike playing school at home, I would like to loosen things up a bit and follow my 12 yr old DD's interests more. 

 

We started homeschooling in early Oct but never really took the time to deschool, only a few weeks. She hasn't really had the chance to explore her interests at all because, at the time, I thought it was important to hit the ground running and not miss a beat. 

 

In hindsight I believe that was a mistake. I would like her to ponder the things in life that interest her more, take a little more of a child led approach. So we had a little chat about that this morning and I asked her to consider how she would like to change up science and history.

 

She got very excited and said "Really? We can change what we are doing?" I told her that was the beauty of homeschooling and that we are not into high school (where we need to hit certain topics) yet and we can certainly switch up what she feels is not working or engaging. 

 

She said that she does not like our text on Astronomy but she likes the show Cosmos, says that she learns a lot more from watching that because of the engaging way it is presented.  She expressed and interest in the show How It's Made and said she wants to learn how to invent stuff.  :leaving:

 

That is pretty broad and, not being a science person, I am not sure where to take that.

 

Can someone advise me? I am thinking that perhaps a few brief in depth unit studies on various science topics might help her to find what excites her. I could really use some guidance! I do not know how to invent stuff!

 

 

[Cakes]

nvm

[lewelma]

Cakes, I'm happy to help.  We are on school holidays, so I have the time to help you think through your goals and teaching methods.

 

I've done quite a few of these types of plans, and they take quite a bit of thinking (Q&A style), so read through some of the previous ones I've done, and if you are interested, let me know. 

 

Individualized plans for authentic learning:

Advanced science for a dyslexic child

Systematic unschooling for a student who dislikes most science programs

Defining the role you have to play. 7th grade science

Learning physics and chemistry under the umbrella of astronomy: post 14

Hands-on science plan for 7th grade using a discovery approach rather than follow-the-directions kit approach (start on post #25)

 

Here are some threads that will get you thinking about big picture goals

 

Science activities - setting goals and evaluating usefulness of activities posts 2, 3, 4, 14

Content, skill, and attitude goals for K-12 post 58

Developing advanced reading skills in science

General ramblings in this thread: Science again...someone shoot me now

 

Ruth in NZ

[moonlight]

Spend some time on MakerShed.com and see if you find some projects that your daughter might find interesting.

 

Also, check out STEM projects/design challenges all over the web. I have gathered a big box of supplies with design challenges that my boys do when the mood strikes.

 

My older son just made a Rube Goldberg machine to pop a balloon that he enjoyed immensely. We belong to part of a STEM homeschooling club that is great for working in groups which is helpful in a lot of the challenges.

http://timetoinvent.org/activities/

http://www.metuchenschools.org/metuchen/Our%20District/Curriculum/STREAM%20Summer%20Program/Examples-Design%20Challenge%20for%20Elementary-%202013-UA-STEM-PROBLEM-SOLVING-ACTIVITIES.pdf

[Chrysalis Academy]

Do  you guys have Netflix?  There are quite a few great docos along the lines of Cosmos.  I've been pleasantly surprised at how much my kids have learned and retained from them.  I'm not suggesting that's all you do for science!  But it is a really nice way to get a good exposure to a lot of topics and see what sparks her interest.  Sit and watch them together, pause and discuss, talk about them afterwards, look together at what else is out there.  This will help you see how she's thinking, what she knows already, what she needs to know to study the things she wants to, and what lights that spark in her eye.

 

We are doing the Big History project this year.  It incorporates both science and history in an integrated way, and is very non-texty, non-boxy.  It has been absolutely fantastic so far, and I think it's excellent to give a strong middle school student a very broad survey of scientific topics, as well as an overview of history that isn't typically covered in textbooks.  It is proving a very rich jumping off point for developing interests.  You might take a look at it, show it to her, see if it appeals to her?  It takes a year if you do the whole thing, but there's no reason why you couldn't start now and finish next january, or do it next year, if it seems like something she'd be interested in.

 

https://www.bighistoryproject.com/home

[Cakes]

Thank you all! 

 

Lewelma, I rabbit-trailed thru many of your posts, they very interesting and you have an incredible gift! 

 

My concern is twofold. First she is an extremely bright and advanced (in public school) child. She is bored by the text books that we have been doing and I would like to shift to a more child/interest led style.  Secondly, her passion is ballet and that is part of the reason for homeschooling her, to allow her to follow that passion. Her end goal is to dance, but as parents we need to know that she is prepared for college should something change (loss of interest, injury etc). I do not see an Ivy college experience in her future. I need her to be prepared for which ever future comes her way...college or ballet school/ company with college later in life.

 

I gathered a ton of good ideas from your posts and copied many that I will go back and reference. I am struggling with the big picture goals in general. I want her to lead, I want her to be prepared for college and I want her to be prepared to graduate a year early in the event that she get accepted to a dance program (non-academic) I am just not sure that the student led education works with the early graduation plan.

 

Daily we get math and reading/logic done. The science and history is laid on in a weekly plan and she does bits here and there, begrudgingly. The science experiments have been largely duds, I think only one of the 5 or so have actually worked or we have been able to complete for various reasons. I need to incorporate more writing. 

 

Chrysalis, I love the look of the Big History Project! I will check it out.

 

Moonlight, I will check out those links, haven't had time yet!

[lewelma]

Is she 7th grade this year?  If so, you definitely have 1.5 years to do child led with no worries whatever (and you can do child led in high school too, and we can talk about it if you want).

 

So, in my mind I'm thinking about 2 different things - 1) the topics she wants to study, and 2) how she wants to study them. Once we get those things figured out, then you can start thinking about resources to meet these goals. So here are a few questions to get you started.

 

1) Topics: She is interested in how to invent things.  How broad is her interest?  Are we talking about things that *she* could personally invent - for example mechanical things like a catapult or a automatic door closer, or is she also interested in how things are invented in general?  Like how are prescription drugs invented?   How was the computer invented?  How was the factory line invented?  How was the light bulb invented? etc.  This single interest could be incredibly broad if she wants it to be.

 

Being a dancer, might she also be interested in the mechanics of the body?  or health/anatomy/physiology?  Or nutrition?

 

These 2 big topics include physics (mechanics), chemistry (nutrition), and biology (human body).  So I think you might begin to see how, even in high school, we could create science classes that a university could recognize.   But let's just think middle school now.

 

2a) How does she learn the material? We  need to think about both input and output.  Input: She likes documentaries and lectures, but is not a big fan of textbooks. Does she also like to read 'trade' books? These are the written for a lay-audience books you find in the library; they are full of pictures and engaging little text boxes.  Does she like to learn with her hands through experimentation (not experiments, but trial and error, I'm- going- to- make- a- catapult kind of experimentation.)?   As for Output: does she need to *do* anything with the material for it to stick in her head -- most people do.  If so, what would she want to do?  Make presentations, create posters, write and study note cards, do an in-depth investigation?  Or a mixture?  She does not need tests, but some kids like them.  Does she?

 

2b) Scheduling: Is she the kind of kid you can give weekly goals to?  Does she want to create her own schedule?  Does she like to just 'get around to it', and if so, will she actually find time to do it?  Does she want time goals or clear-cut objectives to complete?  Does she need you for accountability?

 

Give some thought to these ideas, post your thoughts, and I'll ask you some more questions.  If you are serious about the grade-skip, we will need to think more clearly about 9th grade and transcript-appropriate science course for August.  So let me know the probability of that option.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Cakes]

lewelma, yes she is in 7th and yes the goal is to graduate her a year early. 

 

Off the top of my head...while she has an interest in inventing things, she has never taken any initiative on this. Meaning she is not one to go out to the garage and tinker around, or build things. When she was young she never played with dolls, but she was always surrounded by a pile of books, she loves games and never showed an interest in lego type toys...she has since lost that love of reading. She does like crafty stuff but this interest in inventing is news to me LOL! 

 

Anatomy/physiology and nutrition are on my radar for sure. I do not know when, I was thinking this year but then she expressed interest in mechanics so that sort of has distracted me. I have a background in nutrition and sports nutrition so this would be easy for me to put together.

 

To be really honest she has always had a heavy extra curricular schedule, dance has taken up all of her free time in the last two years, before that was cheer 3 days a week plus dance. When juggling homework and activities she used all of her free time either with friends or chatting with friends online, or online games/social media. This year, even though we are homeschooling, her dance hours have increased and I don't think she just had not made the time to think about what she is interested in! I believe this is just part of the deschooling process, she is just still in recovery mode. Yesterday I suggested she give her iPad a rest and pick up a book (she got two new ones for Christmas) and she reminded me that she is on "break" and should not have to read. I like to see productivity (grew up being told 'find something productive to do')...the iPad makes me crazy!

 

You have given me a lot to think about and discuss with her. I will sit down with her and have a good conversation and get back to you with some answers.

 

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to help us to formulate a plan!

[Cakes]

Thought of a little more info that may be helpful...

 

DD gets up at 9 starts in on school work between 9:30-10, has a 30 minute lunch break and then ends at 2:15 to get ready for dance. She is usually out the door by 3:15-3:30 and returns home at 9ish three days a week and 6 is the other two days.  Dinner, shower and some tv time (usually with her iPad) and relax together, bed is usually 10:30 ish. She frequently has rehearsals on Saturdays and or tries to get together with friends.

 

So our school day is short. 9:30- 2:15. After dance she is tired and doesn't want to do anything mental, although she has become interested in some science shows (Cosmos and How it's Made with an occasional (rare) Myth Busters mixed in)  and will watch those in the evenings if we suggest it. She doesn't have a ton of down time for exploring her interests.

 

[lewelma]

Cakes, given what you are saying, we have to get some big-scale high-school scheduling/planning done first before figuring out science details.  And I think you should post on the high school board to get that sorted out, because they are the experts.  Once that is done, we can work out the goals and details of some science courses that would be based on your dd's personal interests.

 

I do totally understand the joys of homeschooling for a specialist. My ds is a mathematician, and does 4 -5 hours of math a day, which sucks up not just his time, but also his mental energy for other subjects. So I have absolutely been where you are now. So just to get it all straight, your dd she is going into 9th grade in August and you want her on the college track in case something goes south with the dancing. But she has only 4.5 hours a day to get all her course work completed, including any reading of literature for English as she is exhausted at night. So a couple of questions:  Is 4.5 hours 5 days a week a *real* estimate?  Or does she take more than 15 minutes for lunch?  And does she really start at 9:30 or does this slide? Also, is she able to school year round?  If so, that would help with the limited time. 

 

Do you know what is required for high school graduation in your state?  Or for college entrance?  Most people usually talk about 6 classes each year for 4 years.  Clearly dance counts for 1 or maybe 2? I don't know what is possible.  She may only need 3 science credits.  Each one could be done in one 180week school year, or they could be spread out over 4 years and summers, resulting in less work per day.  It kind of depends on how she wants to do it. But I'm guessing if she know exactly what is expected for the work to add up to a credit, she would be more motivated to do it. 

 

Some people use the Carnegie Unit to count work towards a credit, so this is another possibility.  Wikipedia defines it as: the Carnegie Unit is 120 hours of class or contact time with an instructor over the course of a year at the secondary (American high school) level. Strictly speaking, this breaks down into a single one-hour meeting, on each of five days per week for a total of 24 weeks per year. However, knowing that classes usually meet for 50 minutes yields a value of 30 weeks per year.

 

It will be very difficult to actually plan out a science class until you know how you will divvy up the 4.5 hours of time amongst all her required classes. In order to help you plan science, I need to know how much time *per week* she has for science that will add up to a proper credit in some way. I also need to know how much double dipping you can do.  So if she writes a paper on nutrition, are you allowed to count this for both science and English? 

 

So ask those questions (and others you have) over on the high school board.  I will monitor what they say and then we can come back here (or stay there) and work on sorting out an interest-led science program for high school for your dd.

 

Ruth in NZ

[MamaSheep]

I second the suggestion of getting help on the high school board for planning high school with early graduation. 

 

That said, for a middle school science, loosened up a bit, and allowing for more of a child-led approach, here's what I would suggest: 

 

Preparation: 

1) Schedule time, not topics. Instead of planning a list of topics, plan an amount of time each day, or each week, that you will spend learning about science. 

 

2) Get a good science encyclopedia, like this one from DK or this one from Kingfisher. Photocopy the table of contents, and place it in the front of a binder. Make tab dividers for the binder that match the major divisions in the table of contents. For example, if I were using the DK encyclopedia, I'd make dividers that say:

• How Scientists Work
• Matter
• Reactions
• Forces and Energy
• Electricity and Magnetism
• Sound and Light
• Earth
• Weather
• Space
• Living Things
• How Living Things Work
• Ecology

Although I might combine some of them, or even just divide it into Chemistry, Physics, Earth and Space, Living Things, and leave it at that. 

 

3) Get the  Thames and Kosmos kit called Elements of Science It has a good assortment of workable hands-on lab activities, and includes all the bits you need (except things like water, and I think batteries, but it's been a while since I got it, so I don't remember exactly--but I haven't had to buy extra stuff otherwise.) And one thing I like about it, as opposed to some other kits and science activity books, is that each project has an explanation with it about why it works. 

Execution: 
 

During science time, have your daughter pick a topic from the encyclopedia's table of contents, and read the pages about that topic (it's usually a two page spread, and it's got a very different feel to it than a textbook (IMO), and doesn't take very long if she's a good reader). . With your daughter, make a plan for studying that topic that includes the following: 

• Read about it (my shorthand for any sort of "input" on the subject -- the science encyclopedia entry, library books, watching documentaries, interviewing a professional in the field, etc.)
• Write about it (shorthand for any sort of "output" on the topic -- a report, an essay, an outline of a chapter in a book, a drawing of a relevant diagram, a lapbook-style minibook or manipulative, etc.)
• Do it (something hands-on: a lab activity from the kit, an experiment proposed by the student, a field trip, model, poster, etc.)

You can approach these in any order, and you could do more than one thing in each category. For example, you could do an activity from the kit to spark interest, then read about the principle involved in the science encyclopedia, then watch a documentary, read a library book, watch a video on You Tube, and then have her write a bulleted list of facts she remembers, or a description of what happened in the You Tube video, etc. Or you could have her read the encyclopedia pages and make an outline from them, then do an activity from the kit. Or you could go on a field trip to a natural history museum, have her take a picture of something there that interests her and write down what she remembers from the museum, then look up that topic in the encyclopedia and add a few facts to her report page. Whatever form it takes, and whatever order it happens in, just make sure you get those three things-- 1) input, 2) output, and 3) hands-on experience --done for the topic you're working on.

 

Record keeping: 

 

Put the "output" (outline, diagram, lab report, photograph of model, bullet list, notes, etc.) in the binder behind the appropriate tab. 

 

On the photocopy of the table of contents that's in the front of the binder, mark that topic in some manner (highlighter, cross out, check mark, etc.) so you know you've already explored that topic. (That doesn't mean you can't come back and revisit topics of interest, it just helps you have a good overview of what you've covered, and what other topics haven't yet been touched upon.)

 

 

 

One nice thing about this method is that you can get a decent basic understanding of a topic just from what the encyclopedia mentions, leave it at that and move on, or you can take however long you want on a topic of interest, and dig into more depth if you want. For example, if your daughter is into astronomy, you could start with topics from the "Space" section, and if she wants to dig deeper, you could add a more advanced book, like Universe:The Definitive Visual Guide, which covers a number of the same topics, but in greater depth and at a more high school to adult level. Her notebook might have outlines of info about each planet from the science encyclopedia, a photo of the telescope she built with the Thames and Kosmos kit (along with a brief diagram and explanation of how the lenses work), an article clipped from a science magazine, and a list of interesting facts from "Universe", a list of important space exploration vehicles or missions, a brief biography of a famous astronomer, a timeline of important discoveries in astronomy, and so on. Or maybe she'll read about how the electromagnetic spectrum factors in to imaging objects in space, and want to go off on a tangent about ultraviolet light or whatever. Either way, if she puts in a reasonable amount of time on a regular basis, she'll learn a lot, and you'll have a good record of her studies. Also, you have control over the amount of planning and prep you've got time and energy for (kit projects don't take much, interviewing a pro might take more, but you can pick) which for me is a big bonus. 

 

Just remember, read about it, write about it, do it. OR input, output, hands-on. Mix and match. Put it in the binder, mark it off the list. 

 

Also, you could continue this for 8th grade, depending on how you need to structure things for early graduation. 

 

Anyway, good luck, and I hope this helps. 

 

 

ETA: I think I forgot to mention this, but one of the nice things about the science encyclopedia format is that each topic stands alone and isn't dependent on knowing the material that comes before it (unlike text books). That makes it easy to skip around without getting lost. Also, if you did want to continue this approach in high school as a "general science" kind of class for a non-science major (which it sounds like your daughter would probably be?), you could use the Usborne Illustrated Dictionary of Science as your encyclopedia "spine" (it's a bit more advanced), and just plan to supplement more. :)

[Cakes]

Wow, so much wonderful info! We certainly have a ton to think about. 

 

Our local high school grad requirements are as follows:

• Math 6 semester Units - Algebra, Geometry and an Intermediate Math course

 

• English -Eight semester credits (four years) required: Grade 9: two semester credits in English 1,2 or equivalents, Grade 10: two semester credits in English 3,4 or equivalents, Grades 11–12: four semester credits, including at least one in a course that emphasizes American literature 

 

• History/Social Studies - Six semester credits required. Grades 9 or 10: two credits in world history or an advanced alternative. Grade 11: two credits in U.S. history or an advanced alternative. Grade 12: one credit in government and one credit in economics, or two credits in an advanced alternative. 

 

• Science - Six semester credits (3 years) required: one year of life science (biology or other University of California [uC]-approved laboratory science course in the ‘d’ subject area); one year of physical science (physics, chemistry, or other UC-approved laboratory science course in the ‘d’ subject area); and one additional year of UC-approved science coursework in the ‘d’ (laboratory science) or ‘g’ (elective) subject areas. 
• ​Physical Ed - I thought it was three years, but in looking at my documents, it appears it is perhaps 4.

We can school year round. She won't like it, but I think I can get her on board, with the carrot of finishing early.

 

Her school day seems to be pretty consistent except when she has tech/ dress rehearsal weeks she is often not home until 9:45 every night, those days I schedule very light with just reading and math. Because she can sleep until 10:30AM! This happens for about 8 weeks between Sept - June. Three weeks in August are a wash because of Summer Intensive (all day classes) and next summer (2016) she will begin to go a way for 3-5 weeks per summer as well.

 

I think I must be insane.

 

MamaSheep, that was an excellent suggestion and perhaps a good way for us to finish this year with science, and even history. As long as we commit the time it seems like an excellent way to expose her to a wider variety to see more where her interest lies. 

 

I will gather my thoughts and post some questions on the High School board later. Thank you for all of the guidance thus far!

[lewelma]

Just doing the weeks.  Is this right?

 

She can't do

8 weeks during school year

3 weeks in June

3-5 weeks in summer (couldn't tell if this was in addition to the June time or replaced it)

2 weeks Thanksgiving/Christmas/Easter

 

18 weeks down.  so 34 weeks available if you go year round.

 

If you do Carnegie credits at 120 hours per class.  She needs to do 45 minutes every day for 34 weeks, this earns her 127 hours.  So 7 hours too much to be used for sick days/ unexpected dance rehearsal etc.

 

Can she do 45 minutes a day for science?  This 3 hours 45min every week, so she could also do 2 days of 2ish hours each week, if she prefers to consolidate.

[lewelma]

Science - Six semester credits (3 years) required: one year of life science (biology or other University of California [uC]-approved laboratory science course in the ‘d’ subject area); one year of physical science (physics, chemistry, or other UC-approved laboratory science course in the ‘d’ subject area); and one additional year of UC-approved science coursework in the ‘d’ (laboratory science) or ‘g’ (elective) subject areas. 

 

Do you know  how traditional these courses have to be?  So does physics have to include mechanics, wave, electromagnitism, and modern, or can you just focus on mechanics?   And for biology, can you do human body/nutrition, or do you have to do cell bio, genetics, ecology, and evolution for example? (However, bio is not as clear cut as physics as to a traditional first year course).  I'm just trying to see how much wiggle room we have for a interest led course.

 

How much lab time is required for a lab science?

[Cakes]

Here is the list, I also have added the course descriptions for the most basic level graduation/college prep classes for physical and life sciences. For her third year she can choose an elective earth science or a lab course.

 

 

Districtwide Courses in Grades 9–12 that Meet SDUSD High School Graduation Requirements for Science 

 

Six semester credits (3 years) required: one year of life science (biology or other University of California [uC]-approved laboratory science course in the ‘d’ subject area); one year of physical science (physics, chemistry, or other UC-approved laboratory science course in the ‘d’ subject area); and one additional year of UC-approved science coursework in the ‘d’ (laboratory science) or ‘g’ (elective) subject areas.

     

 

 

Life Science Courses (d)

Biology 1,2
Biology 1,2 Advanced Biology 1,2 AP Physiology 1,2*

 

BIOLOGY 1,2 (6111, 6112)
Grade level: 9–12
Prerequisites: None
Course duration: Two semesters
Type of graduation credit earned: Life science

COURSE DESCRIPTION  College Preparatory Course (P). This course meets the University of California’s d (laboratory science) subject area requirement.

This introductory course is designed to meet college entrance requirements and prepare students for the worlds of school, work, and citizenship. It builds on physical science concepts, and emphasizes mechanisms for the functioning and continuity of organisms. Unifying themes of biology are stressed (evolution, homeostasis, energy, matter and organization, continuity, development, and ecology) and the application and relevance of biology to students’ lives and to society. Inquiry and the nature of science are important content elements.

Class organization is student centered. Learning begins with questions and includes experimental laboratory activities, inquiry, cooperative group work, class discussions, reading, and critical thinking analyses leading to deeper conceptual understanding and increased knowledge in the key areas of biology. State science standards are addressed. All student activities have clearly defined goals for both the content material and thinking skills involved. Multiple forms of assessment, including authentic assessment, are used. Laboratory activities have clearly labeled safety precautions and hazardous waste disposal procedures. 

    

 

 

Physical Science Courses (d)

Chemistry 1,2 Chemistry 1,2 Honors Chemistry 1,2 AP Physics 1,2
Physics 1,2 Advanced Physics B 1,2 AP Physics C 1,2 AP 

 

CHEMISTRY 1,2 (6211, 6212) Grade level: 9–12

Prerequisites: Algebra 1-2 or equivalent Course duration: Two semesters

Type of graduation credit earned: Physical science COURSE DESCRIPTION

College Preparatory Course (P). This course meets the University of California’s d (laboratory science) subject area requirement.

This introductory course is designed to meet college entrance requirements and prepare students for the worlds of school, work and citizenship. Students learn the fundamental concepts and knowledge of chemistry through thematic units that develop thinking and analytical skills as well as traditional chemistry subject matter and problem solving. The course addresses state science standards. Class organization is student centered. Learning begins with questions and includes experimental laboratory activities, inquiry, cooperative group work, class discussions, reading, mathematics, and critical thinking analyses leading to deeper conceptual understanding. Inquiry and the nature of science are emphasized, and all student activities have clearly defined goals for both the content material and thinking skills involved. Laboratory activities have clearly labeled safety precautions and hazardous waste disposal procedures.

This course is intended to help students meet state science standards. 

 

or 

 

PHYSICS 1,2 (6311, 6312)

Grade level: 9–12
Prerequisites: Algebra 1-2
Course duration: Two semesters
Type of graduation credit earned: Physical science

COURSE DESCRIPTION

College Preparatory Course (P). This course meets the University of California’s d (laboratory science) subject area requirement.

This two-semester, algebra-based physics course is designed to provide an introductory experience with the processes of investigating the physical world and the understandings derived from that process. The emphasis is on developing a qualitative conceptual understanding of general principals and models and on the nature of inquiry. This course concentrates on conceptual development and provides an enriching laboratory experience; it can be taken by students in grades 9 and 10 as a first course in physics that prepares them for the more mathematically rigorous Advanced Placement physics courses. The core content addressed in this course includes the topics of motion and forces, the conservation of energy and momentum, heat and thermodynamics, waves and electric and magnetic phenomena. 

 

Additional Elective Science Courses

Earth Science 1,2 (g) Environmental Science 1,2 AP (d)* Marine Science 1,2 (d)* 

 

Hope this helps! I will have to do more digging to find out how much lab time is required in these courses. 

 

 

[Cakes]

Just doing the weeks.  Is this right?

 

She can't do

8 weeks during school year

3 weeks in June - Nothing in June

3-5 weeks in summer (couldn't tell if this was in addition to the June time or replaced it)

2 weeks Thanksgiving/Christmas/Easter

 

18  15 weeks down.  so 34  37 weeks available if you go year round.

 

If you do Carnegie credits at 120 hours per class.  She needs to do 45 minutes every day for 34 weeks, this earns her 127 hours.  So 7 hours too much to be used for sick days/ unexpected dance rehearsal etc.

 

Can she do 45 minutes a day for science?  Yes  This 3 hours 45min every week, so she could also do 2 days of 2ish hours each week, if she prefers to consolidate.

 

Thank you so much for all of your effort! You are a Godsend!

[lewelma]

Thank you so much for all of your effort! You are a Godsend!

 

Thanks!  I'm on school holidays so have time to help!

 

So with 37 weeks, she could do 50 minutes 4x per week and come up with 123 hours.  or she could do 65 minutes 3x per week and get 120 hours.

 

But she may want to have some squish time for either an additional 2 week summer break or in case she needs it for her dance.  So perhaps 70 minutes 3x per week for 129 hours, so 9 hours off if needed. 

 

Clearly, you would need to talk to her about how she would want to do it.

[lewelma]

Cakes, I'm a bit confused as to what you have posted on the course requirements.  These sound like classes offered somewhere rather than a requirements list.  It can't be a requirement to have classroom group work if you are homeschooling.  Are you sure these are the *basic* requirements for CA?

 

Unifying themes of biology are stressed (evolution, homeostasis, energy, matter and organization, continuity, development, and ecology) and the application and relevance of biology to students’ lives and to society.

This is incredibly vague for biology.  If these are the actual requirements, we can work with this and make it into anything your dd wants.

 

The core content addressed in this course includes the topics of motion and forces, the conservation of energy and momentum, heat and thermodynamics, waves and electric and magnetic phenomena.[/font]

This is a standard first year physics class. So not a lot of wiggle room, just how much each topic is stressed.

 

 

Additional Elective Science Courses

Earth Science 1,2 (g) Environmental Science 1,2 AP (d)* Marine Science 1,2 (d)*

This is an incredibly restrictive list of electives!  Are you sure this is all that is allowed?  yikes! I'd like to see Anatomy and Physiology available for your dd.

[Cakes]

Ok I am a bit confused as well. I took these course descriptions from the local high school. I googles high school graduation requirements and found different requirements than what I found at the high school, which are more likely geared towards State college acceptance. The information below feels outdated to me but I will dig further.

 

 

State Minimum Course RequirementsMinimum set of courses required for high school graduation.

Beginning in the 1986-87 school year, California Education Code (EC) 51225.3 has specified a minimum set of courses to meet state requirements to graduate from high school and receive a diploma. The governing boards of local education agencies (LEAs) have the authority to supplement the state minimum requirements at the local level. 

EC 51225.3 states that all pupils receiving a diploma of graduation from a California high school must have completed all of the following courses, while in grades nine to twelve, inclusive: 

• Unless otherwise specified, each course shall have a duration of one school year:
  • Three courses in English
  • Two courses in mathematics, including one year of Algebra I (EC Section 51224.5)
  • Two courses in science, including biological and physical sciences
  • Three courses in social studies, including United States history and geography; world history, culture, and geography; a one-semester course in American government and civics, and a one-semester course in economics
  • One course in visual or performing arts,  foreign language, or commencing with the 2012-13 school year, career technical education. For the purpose of satisfying the minimum course requirement, a course in American Sign Language shall be deemed a course in foreign language
  • Two courses in physical education, unless the pupil has been exempted pursuant to the provisions of EC Section51241 
• Other coursework adopted by the local governing board of the LEA

The local governing board of the LEA with the active involvement of parents, administrators, teachers, and pupils, shall adopt alternative means for pupils to complete the prescribed course of study, which may include: 

• Practical demonstration of skills and competencies
• Supervised work experience or other outside school experience
• Career technical education classes offered in high schools
• Courses offered by regional occupational centers or programs
• Interdisciplinary study
• Independent study
• Credit earned at a postsecondary institution

Requirements for graduation and specified alternative modes for completing the prescribed course of study shall be made available to pupils, parents, and the public.

The University of California and the California State University systems have established a uniform minimum set of courses required for admission as a freshman. 

Courses Required for High School Graduation and University Admission (English) 
Available Translations of the Courses Required for High School Graduation and University Admission

The entire California Education Code may be found in the California Law  library.

 

 

[Cakes]

Here is more...

 

Cal State University requirements - 

English : Four years of approved courses

Math : Three years, including algebra, intermediate algebra, and geometry.

Social Studies/ History : Two years, including one year of U.S. history or U.S. history and government and one year of other approved social science.

Science : Two years, including one year of biological and one year of physical science with lab.

Foreign Language; Two years in same language required.

​Visual and Performing Arts : One year of visual and performing arts chosen from the following: dance, drama/theater, music, or visual art.

Phys Ed: None ( although High school requirement is 2 yrs

Electives: Must be chosen from approved academic courses in history, English, advanced mathematics, lab science, foreign language, social science, or fine arts. See UC Doorways  for approved courses at your high school.

 

 

[lewelma]

Cakes, hope you don't mind, but I just posted on the high school board asking for CA people to come over here and explain the science requirements to us.  Once we know the structure we have to work under, I can help you design interest-led classes. 

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

[Pen]

Possibly of interest:  http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/homeschool/index.html

[lewelma]

So are we looking at requirements for CA high school graduation?  Or requirements for entrance into CA universities? 

 

I have gotten the impression that it is difficult for homeschoolers to get into CA universities, so I'm guessing that CA high school graduation requirements in science would be easier to meet than science requirements for entrance into CA universities.  Is this true?

[lewelma]

Not sure what a-g requirements are.  But this description of laboratory science for admission into CA universities, requires studying for a very specific test (SAT2, AP, IB) which would completely NOT work with an interest-led science program.

 

So from what I can see, if your dd wants the possibility of attending a CA university, then she cannot do interest-based science. But let's be clear, this is certainly not true for all universities. 

 

If she is willing to attend non-CA universities, then all we need is to understand the CA highschool graduation requirements, if there are any for homeschoolers.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

 

 

From website linked to above:

 

D) Laboratory science

 

UC-approved high school courses

Two years (three years recommended) of laboratory science providing fundamental knowledge in two of these three foundational subjects: biology, chemistry and physics. The final two years of an approved three-year integrated science program that provides rigorous coverage of at least two of the three foundational subjects may be used to fulfill this requirement.

 

SAT Subject Examination

Each test clears one year:

• Biology: Score of 540
• Chemistry: Score of 530
• Physics: Score of 530

AP or IB Examination

Score of 3, 4 or 5 on any two AP Exams in Biology, Chemistry, Physics B or Physics C, and Environmental Science; score of 5, 6 or 7 on any two IB HL exams in Biology, Chemistry or Physics

 

College courses

For each year of the requirement, a grade of C or better in a transferable course in a natural (physical or biological) science with at least 30 hours of laboratory (not "demonstration")

 

[Cakes]

It was my understanding that as long as students complete home schooling courses that are UC-approved for satisfying a-g requirements (for students in California) or are essentially equivalent to UC-approved courses for California high schools (for out-of-state students).

 

So the bottom line is DD plans to go directly into a ballet school (dance only, no academics) and then into a company to dance professionally. 

Mom knows this may or may not happen.If it does not happen she needs to be prepared to go to a state or university school that offers as BFA degree. I am not sure how rigorous the academic side of acceptance is, I assume they will want well educated kids, who are also exceptional dancers. I am currently researching admittance requirements on some now.

[lewelma]

So all the a-g requirement stuff keeps referring to "approved" courses.  How do homeschoolers get their courses approved?

[quark]

Possibly of interest:  http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/homeschool/index.html

 

Our plan, prior to starting community college, was to use the "by examination" route for science and a few other subjects. We are using the CC now and will probably skip this step.

 

People I know who have applied and been admitted to UCs usually use CC dual enrollment, a homeschool charter school's a-g approved syllabus, or the by exam route. A few enroll in outsourced courses that are a-g approved (I don't know how they were approved). We also have UC Scout now (no personal experience).

 

[...................]

Homeschoolers cannot get their courses approved, in the sense I think you are asking.

 

The courses, have to be an approved UC a-g textbook (think mainstream secular big name publishers), and they ALSO have to be TAUGHT by an approved instructor (I have no idea how instructors get approved but it's something any mom or dad can't just do...)

 

Usually, if you want to have A-G courses on your transcript you need to take the courses at a local school or the (very rare) occasional class or tutor situation who has gone through the trouble of becoming a-g approved.  Even if you are with a Charter, (for example, OCean Grove) it's a bunch of hoops to jump through as they have to assign you a specific approved teacher to oversee your course, (not sure how they do that)...

 

It is highly unusual for a homeschool student to get straight into the UC system by the transcript route.  Usually, they go through the testing route, which means taking SAT2 subject tests in every main area that they should have had A-G approved courses AND high SAT scores.  The higher the better.  In which case the college "overlooks" their inferior :cursing: homeschool standing and instead just looks at the tests.  

 

Most kids here attend a junior college for two years and transfer OR apply to the local private colleges (who knows how they pay for the 40,000.00 per year tuition?).  The community colleges are EXCELLENT in CA and for most degrees all credits transfer to almost all UC campuses or CalState campuses.  So, if your child isn't up to all the stress of testing, she will not miss out by attending the community college.  At all.

 

If you go to the San Jose State website, they lay all this out REALLY clearly, much better than the websites of the UC's do.  It's pretty much all spelled out there and a little more homeschool friendly than the UC's.

 

 

 

 

[...................]

I have so many acquaintances whose kids dreamed of going straight to a 4 year institution for whatever reason, and the mom and kid went through so many hoops to make it happen.  When they tell the tale, it is almost absolutely overwhelming to me in the amount of testing, studying, stress and paperwork they went through. You are talking two entire years of intense studying for SAT2 tests and SAT tutoring and gobs and gobs of paperwork, "special essays" that they ask you for to explain your homeschooling, etc. etc.... Honestly.

 

I have a bunch of other friends whose kids went straight to CC, transferred, and went onto Berkeley with no problem whatsoever in math, Science, and engineering degrees even (the most competitive transfer degrees)...and they just go, "well he knew he had to get as close to a 4.0 GPA as possible to get into Berkeley but other than that it was no big deal. He just signed up for CC classes starting at age 16 and that was that." and the CalStates accept more transfer students at lower GPA's so really, even if your kid only makes a 3.0 he is likely to get into a great school and get a job in her chosen profession and live a long and happy life.  

 

idk....makes sense to me!  

[lewelma]

So if Cake's dd does a well-laid-out but interest-led science course in high school, could she go the CA CC route if she ends up getting injured and being unable to follow her dance dreams?  Or does she still have to do 'approved science'/test-based-science to get into a CA CC?

 

I'm not convinced that a girl so focused on dance is going to want to take the SAT2/AP/IB science tests to be able to use U of C as a backup option.

 

ETA: oh, we were typing at the same time.  Seems we agree that going the testing route would be a stink option.

[...................]

Yes, she can do interest led Science, and then go to CC after taking the CHSPE.  The CHSPE is pretty easy she will have no problem. In fact, it looks like I could have passed in after attending 8th grade in Catholic school back in the day.  

 

However, to be clear: It is my understanding that she has to be VERY clear about what she needs for transfer and the grades she needs to transfer to specific UC's or CalStates.  She should  look at her chosen 4 year school's website very carefully and meet with a CC counselor as much as possible to make sure she is and stays on the right track for transfer.  

 

But, there is absolutely no doubt that it is a lot less stressful than the testing route!  

 

So in the meantime she can kind of do her thing, as long has CC is her only goal. My son is doing a middle ground.  He is enrolled in a local PSP through a private school that is going to help us oversee, provide transcripts, etc.  He can then look really good for a *private* 4 year school, straight out of high school.  They also provide AP testing, and other types of bonuses.  This way he will have two options: CC and private 4 year university.  I very highly doubt he will want to go the testing route, but we can see what he wants at that time. I do not plan to encourage that at all because I personally think 16 year old kids don't need that level of stress.  

 

Later on down the line, we will do the same thing with my dd, this way at least she has two options.  

[lewelma]

Just in case you  have not read the whole thread, here are her dd's plans.  Ballet school is #1 goal; but mom is trying to keep doors open just in case.

 

 

My concern is twofold. First she is an extremely bright and advanced (in public school) child. She is bored by the text books that we have been doing and I would like to shift to a more child/interest led style.  Secondly, her passion is ballet and that is part of the reason for homeschooling her, to allow her to follow that passion. Her end goal is to dance, but as parents we need to know that she is prepared for college should something change (loss of interest, injury etc). I do not see an Ivy college experience in her future. I need her to be prepared for which ever future comes her way...college or ballet school/ company with college later in life.

 

snip

 

So the bottom line is DD plans to go directly into a ballet school (dance only, no academics) and then into a company to dance professionally. 

Mom knows this may or may not happen.If it does not happen she needs to be prepared to go to a state or university school that offers as BFA degree. I am not sure how rigorous the academic side of acceptance is, I assume they will want well educated kids, who are also exceptional dancers. I am currently researching admittance requirements on some now.

[lewelma]

Yes, she can do interest led Science, and then go to CC after taking the CHSPE.  The CHSPE is pretty easy she will have no problem.  

 

Awesome!  It seems like we have been running around in circles just to see if she can do interest-led in high school.  If the answer is yes, then I can get down to doing the fun work of designing course!

[Pen]

The UC schools have more demanding requirements than the Cal State schools, which in turn have higher demands (so far as I know) than community colleges.  A school like UC Berkeley is amongst the top schools in USA and very, very competitive to get into. 

 

However, if this child is quite smart, I'd be inclined to aim toward the UC requirements (probably via the testing option) and have a Cal State or community college option as a fall back. 

 

UCLA has some excellent programs in the fine arts areas--though maybe more known for theater; UC Irvine which is probably less competitive academically has strong dance program.  Possibly UC Santa Cruz would fit.  UC Santa Barbara also has a dance program, but I have some reservations about the school atmosphere there.

 

We don't really know how academically able this child is, but if she is capable of being at a UC she would probably be much happier there than at a Cal State or community college.

 

Another reason to aim for this might be that even if she makes it into a professional company in a few years, she could still end up with an injury or for other reasons need to make a career change, and if she can have taken and passed various helpful tests as a high school student, it might make that easier.

 

My guess would be that for her it would be hard to do CC as still a high school student like some home schoolers do because of the demands of her dance schedule. 

 

Thus, if she could be directed toward a program that she would enjoy and learn from for science and that would prepare her for the required tests for UC admission, that would probably be a good plan. ...assuming that she is capable of UC level work.

 

For science, I wonder if doing the earth science or other elective now would make sense, so as to leave biology and physical science requirements to when there would be presumably a stronger math background?  Or to learn what she likes and is interested in while also studying for AP or Board exams?

[lewelma]

Pen, I'm just not sure that realistically she will have time.  Here is her schedule:

 

 

 

DD gets up at 9 starts in on school work between 9:30-10, has a 30 minute lunch break and then ends at 2:15 to get ready for dance. She is usually out the door by 3:15-3:30 and returns home at 9ish three days a week and 6 is the other two days.  Dinner, shower and some tv time (usually with her iPad) and relax together, bed is usually 10:30 ish. She frequently has rehearsals on Saturdays and or tries to get together with friends.

 

So our school day is short. 9:30- 2:15. After dance she is tired and doesn't want to do anything mental, although she has become interested in some science shows (Cosmos and How it's Made with an occasional (rare) Myth Busters mixed in)  and will watch those in the evenings if we suggest it. She doesn't have a ton of down time for exploring her interests.

 

snip

 

Her school day seems to be pretty consistent except when she has tech/ dress rehearsal weeks she is often not home until 9:45 every night, those days I schedule very light with just reading and math. Because she can sleep until 10:30AM! This happens for about 8 weeks between Sept - June. Three weeks in August are a wash because of Summer Intensive (all day classes) and next summer (2016) she will begin to go a way for 3-5 weeks per summer as well.

 

snip

 

She can't do

8 weeks during school year

3-5 weeks in summer

2 weeks Thanksgiving/Christmas/Easter

 

15 weeks down.   37 weeks available if you go year round.

 

Mom said 45min/day might be doable.  I just can't see how you can do an AP class in under 4 hours a week (and no extra time on weekends).  Even going year round with only 2 weeks off total for the year, she only has 37 weeks.  Seems unrealistic to be able to score well on an AP exam regardless of how clever you are.  Plus, her focus is clearly elsewhere.

 

 

[Pen]

I do not think a homeschooler can get home designed  personal courses approved, but there may be online, distance or other options that would be approved--and still feasible while dancing.  Possibly Neo (I think I have name off) computerized science labs for AP science, for example.

 

Here is another link with regard to non traditional students, from UC Riverside (which also has dance) : http://admissions.ucr.edu/Admissions/pathsAdmissions#nonTraditionalStudents

[lewelma]

So I guess the answer to whether she can do interest-led science revolves around which university would be her back-up plan and what their requirements are.

 

 

[...................]

Awesome!  It seems like we have been running around in circles just to see if she can do interest-led in high school.  If the answer is yes, then I can get down to doing the fun work of designing course!

Absolutely.  As long as you understand your options and she and you are OK with the CC route, then she can enjoy herself.  And don't forget, there are two CC options too. She can dual enroll and then the CC courses are free (on the longshot that she gets into the class since they are all overbooked and dual enrolled students have the lowest seniority) OR she can take the CHSPE, you can pay as a college student and she has medium seniority.  :o)  Just a thought.

[lewelma]

Cakes, seems like there are some hard questions here, that might take you and your dd some time to answer.  If you would rather I just help you with the next 5 months of middle school science, we can do that instead. :001_smile:

 

Ruth in NZ

[Pen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Healy

 

I knew Katherine slightly. She was both an outstanding dancer and also an outstanding student (St. Ann's in NYC followed by Princeton University). It is not impossible to combine the two. 

 

I do not know what OP's dd can do (probably neither does she until it happens), but one possibility for AP study would be to spend the rest of this year getting basic exposure and elective down, and then to do two years for each of two subjects at an AP level. Or at an SAT subject level which is not as hard.  Also, if she does not make it into a professional company then presumably she will have her regular senior year of high school available also.

[lewelma]

Pen, I'm in NZ so of course these issues are quite different here.  But I know that unschoolers get into university in America, so clearly interest-led science is acceptable at some universities.  How do you view this option?  Do you know of a poster on this board whose kids have gotten into university as unschoolers?  Might be helpful to see what others have done who have not gone down the testing route in science.

[Arcadia]

Might be helpful to see what others have done who have not gone down the testing route in science.

jennw-in-socal posts would be useful. Her son is in theatre.

 

SoCal is short form for Southern California :)

 

Laura in CA has a child accepted to UCB without meeting all the A-G requirements.

[JennW in SoCal]

jennw-in-socal posts would be useful. I think her daughter is a dancer and her son is in theatre.

 

SoCal is short form for Southern California :)

 

 

JennW here, but I don't have a daughter! I did however have a son in theater.  I'm going to answer over on the high school board, though, as I think that is where other Californians can join in.

[Arcadia]

JennW here, but I don't have a daughter! I did however have a son in theater. I'm going to answer over on the high school board, though, as I think that is where other Californians can join in.

Sorry. I got confused with you and Jenny of Florida. Her daughter and son dance.

[lewelma]

Cakes, all the people with knowledge on this topic are on the highschool board, so I've just copied the high school specific posts over there.  Let's move..... :auto:

 

[Cakes]

A lot has flushed out here! Thank you to all who took the time!

 

I will head over to the other thread  :001_smile:

[Guest Bill W.]

You mentioned your daughter liked a space show on tv, but not the textbook.  (Don't blame her).  Check out http://www.stellarium.org/ .  It's a free space program that runs on your computer.  Lots of things to look at and play with, and all of it is educational.  This is the kind of thing that makes a kid start asking questions and look for things to read.