Help me plan a Latin path from grammar to rhetoric?

[Sahamamama]

Well, I have to respectfully disagree. Starting early, and slowly, I believe more firmly implants knowledge into a child's mind. My children, who have started with Prima Latina and have been studying with that program for many years now "think Latin". I "think Latin" because I have a had 4 years now of studying it in a gentle, yet thorough way. Not many people remember much of a language if they started in high school, unless they really latched on and kept up with it. I'm sure we all remember so much from our high school Spanish classes. All I remember is "sacan sus tereas, por favor" (take out your homework, please) in that screechy nasal voice my Spanish teacher had. Studying Latin with an early learners program is age appropriate (the focus on the early years is on learning the vocabulary, so when the student is older and working through the actual grammar and translations, then he knows that "nauta" is sailor and "regina" is queen and he doesn't have to look that up, too) and certainly not a waste of time. And, regarding burn-out.... between doing the assignment, reciting the vocabulary and the prayers and listening to the CD, my third grader spends about 10 minutes a day on Prima Latina. Not exactly headed toward Latin burn-out. My son, who is in Second Form, spends much more time, but we do it together and we actually have a good time.

 

:iagree: Even though we are a long way from high school level Latin, I agree with KrissiK's post, especially the bolded. Prima Latina is so gentle for a 2nd grader. Latina Christiana is perfect for a 3rd or 4th grader. If all they "get" out of it is the vocabulary, IMO that is worth the 10 minutes, three times a week.

 

I see my children absorbing the vocabulary, and transferring that knowledge to other words they encounter with those roots. This past October at a Reformation concert, even my 2nd graders were able to decipher the meaning of some of the Latin words on the church walls and in the concert program. It added to their engagement in and enjoyment of their surroundings. Latin is a key to Western culture. Why would we wait to begin?

 

Also, I see my children understanding the basics of the grammar of another language -- e.g., nouns decline, verbs conjugate, regular & irregular verbs, agreement, feminine/masculine/neuter, singular/plural, 1st/2nd/3rd person, voice, tense, mood, inflection, stems, roots, endings, possessives, reflexives, and so on. They come across some of these concepts again in French, and yet again when we study English grammar. They learn some of the vocabulary of grammar itself, and have time to absorb the terminology before they have to actually master the more abstract grammar concepts and application.

 

I think that for many people, formal language study is intimidating when there is too much pressure to cram it all in, within a short period of time. Neither Prima Latina nor Latina Christian take much time to complete each week, but we already feel these courses are well-worth doing. We plan to continue with MP's Latin courses, but whether or not we continue to high school level Latin, this early exposure to Latin has been beneficial for them.

[ScoutTN]

If I recall correctly, I read somewhere (probably on the CAP site?) that after LFC A&B, an older student would do fine starting Latin Alive 1. DS will be finishing 8th grade by the time he would finish LFC C. I haven't totally decided to skip LFC C. I'll see how things are going by the end of LFC B. I sure wish I could remember where I read that recommendation.

I think I read that recommendation too, here!

[momacacia]

So is Latin Alive 1 truly only for upper middle or high school? Could it be used slowly with a late elementary student?

[serendipitous journey]

There are reading passages, but they are very much based on using the grammar and vocabulary that you are learning in that chapter.  I don't know how they would work as a supplement - they might just be confusing, as they are not designed (as in a whole to parts programme) to be texts from which rules can be derived, but rather exemplars of how rules can be used.  Does that make sense?

 

Laura, I want to address this & also make sure I stay on topic for the thread, so I'm expanding my reply below.  I'm really glad you made this comment as you are 1) keeping me on the straight and narrow in terms of my own planning and 2) making sure I make sense to the board.  :) 

 

In short, I've found we do well when I teach important topics two ways, and am planning to teach Latin Prep in parallel to FFL if I use it.  I've only looked at samples and read reviews so far, though, so I can't say for sure that this will work.  I hope to order the materials this month or next in preparation for a Spring Latin Surge. 

 

(ETA: Also, I am only interested in Parts to whole Latin, as per WTM)  I have done tons of searches on this and have read lots of threads and am just not getting it. Can we talk about the different paths one might take to get their children from, say, 4th grade Latin into high school Latin, to the point where they would be well prepared to read Latin works or continue Latin studies in University?

 

I have seen the recommendations in TWTM but I really want classical pronunciation and it seems that LC does not take that approach.  We do not use Latin in our church services so I can go either way, as far as it having religious content or being secular but I am looking for classical pronunciation.

 

Thanks!

 

In terms of the OP: 

 

The path we have taken so far is working well, and is WTM-compatible.  We did Song School Latin in 1st grade, more or less.  We then began using GSWL orally in 2nd and took it very slowly, with breaks, through 3rd.  This was wonderful -- it has given A. a great sense of how Latin works.  However, I thought he'd benefit from a more explicit and formal approach at this point so, after trying LfC and detesting it (just us -- others love it, as is clear from other posts) we started First Form Latin in 4th grade.  I expect to continue through 4th Form Latin at roughly the suggested pace of one level/year, and then reassess.  The natural next step would be to use Memoria Press' Henle program. 

 

I do think our formal grammar has been helpful -- we do FLL and are finishing MCT Island level at the moment (we bit over 1/3 of the way through 4th grade). 

 

We are working with Classical Studies in a few areas: Latin Language and also a focus on Greek and Roman history and mythology.  To reinforce this and make more explicit the rewarding element of Latin -- that is, for us, the ties of the language to the remarkable culture of the Romans -- I would like to emphasize more of the Classical history, culture, and writing than FFL does, while retaining the benefits of the program.  To this end, since we school year-round and I can afford to pace out FFL and make space for other Latin work, I am going to try to incorporate Galore Park's Latin Prep.  I like Galore Park generally and was happy with the sample of Latin Prep I downloaded; also, you can get pronunciation CDs which would be a nice addition to our FFL Classical CDs.  Latin Prep has a MUCH greater emphasis on culture and meaningful phrases than FFL does. 

 

I expect that there will be levels of __ Form Latin at which we can fairly easily do early levels of Latin Prep, but we may need to "sit on" one set of materials or the other for a bit at various stages. 

 

That's our current position in the move toward rhetoric-level Latin with an emphasis on grammar.  I do have a much greater hope for teaching Classical culture and writing than is emphasized in WTM, however. 

[Slache]

So is Latin Alive 1 truly only for upper middle or high school? Could it be used slowly with a late elementary student?

 

I've looked at it and I vote no, but if I knew Latin better I imagine I'd feel differently. I'm going through Basics of Biblical Greek now and have often thought "I could do this with a 3rd grader." You could start it yourself and then decide.