KrissiK Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Ok, I'm in trouble. Well, maybe. I'm starting a book club with our co-op. I've never done this before, but I read "Deconstructing Penguins" and I'm going to give it a try. My problem is... I chose a book, the kids have read it, we're going to discuss it on Friday and I can't for the life of me figure out the protagost, antagonist or the conflict/ climax. It's a sweet book. "The Year of Miss Agnes" by Kirkpatrick Hill. I thought I'd be able to figure it out, it's a simple novel. But.... the more I try to figure it out, the more confused I get. I know how the Goldstones say to identify these things and I'm sure they are all in this book..... it is a very good book. It's just not obvious to me. Well, yes, the protagonist. I think I've got that. But the rest....I've looked all over on-line for any sort of analysis of this book, but there's nothing there. Help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I have not read this book, but I just wanted to say I do sympathize with you. I am doing Teaching the Classics plus Reading Roadmaps with my kids. Thus far the easy parts are identifying the characters, plot, setting, resolution, and types of conflict. Sometimes identifying the climax and resulting denouement of the story is tricky for me. I like how Teaching the classics starts you off with simple children's books (not chapter books) to give you practice first, but even with that, I am not always 100% confident I have the climax placed appropriately. That said, the place where the climax is will depend on what type of conflict it is. There are some stories where depending on if the conflict is man v. man or man v. self or man v. nature the climax will be in a different spot. So that may be what is confusing you. Anyway, this may not be helpful at all. Just wanted to say I hear you, and i hope you figure it out!! Do you have the socratic questions list that is used in Teaching the Classics? Those might help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I'm trying to remember that book. I do remember it was very sweet. Is it possible that it's an episodic book? That is, a book where every chapter tells a story of its own. I may not be remembering it properly, but many children's books are written like that. (I always figured it was so you don't have to worry about forgetting what happened in the last chapter!) If that's the case, try picking one of the mini-stories and analyzing that. In fact, you can do that for a chapter or section of ANY book even if it isn't episodic. It's interesting that sometimes the protagonist in a sub-story is not the protagonist of the book as a whool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 It's about a teacher who comes to Alaska in the 1940's and is little unorthodox, but very loved and very effective. It's told through the narration of a 10 year old girl. I've been doing some studying of protagonist and antagonist and I'm learning that the antagonist doesn't have to be a person, but can be a group if persons or an idea, even. And the protagonist isn't always necessarily the "hero" or the "good guy" but it's whoever is pushing forward the action in the plot. If the protagonist in this story is Miss Agnes, the teacher, then I'm thinking perhaps the antagonist is ignorance. The neat thing about this story is that she brings about change in the village. But not at the expense of their traditions. Education is a tool for them to better their lives, but not at the expense of their way of life. She gives these kids an identity in time and space.... I mean, there's so much in this book, so many quotes and talking points.... It's really a wonderful book, but as far as a traditionally defined conflict, and climax.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 I have not read this book, but I just wanted to say I do sympathize with you. I am doing Teaching the Classics plus Reading Roadmaps with my kids. Thus far the easy parts are identifying the characters, plot, setting, resolution, and types of conflict. Sometimes identifying the climax and resulting denouement of the story is tricky for me. I like how Teaching the classics starts you off with simple children's books (not chapter books) to give you practice first, but even with that, I am not always 100% confident I have the climax placed appropriately. That said, the place where the climax is will depend on what type of conflict it is. There are some stories where depending on if the conflict is man v. man or man v. self or man v. nature the climax will be in a different spot. So that may be what is confusing you. Anyway, this may not be helpful at all. Just wanted to say I hear you, and i hope you figure it out!! Do you have the socratic questions list that is used in Teaching the Classics? Those might help you. This sounds wonderful. But, it's not going to help me now? Lol! I guess I was just thinking this would be easy. It's a kid's book, right? How hard can that be? (Heavy sigh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidlit Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Ok, so if I plan to do this next year at co op, I should start working on it now? Lol. OP, how often will your group meet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Ok, so if I plan to do this next year at co op, I should start working on it now? Lol. OP, how often will your group meet? Well, since I am just starting this... The plan is to meet once and discuss for an hour. I know that doesn't sound like much, but for the first time.... All I need is to set up a bunch of time and then it fall flat. I'd rather start minimally and work up. Then, I will evaluate. I have two book groups - this book for grades 2-4 and then the older kids are reading "The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle" by Avi. Now, I taught that book when I taught junior high, so I'm not having as many problems. Plus, there's a very detailed analysis on- line. So, I'm good there. I'm just not as familiar with good books for lower-mid elementary age and I just picked this book sort of randomly. Well, very randomly. And it's a great book, and a lot of the parents are saying their kids are enjoying the book, I am enjoying the book, so it's not that it was a bad choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I know nothing about the book, but if it is well- written, why not focus on that? Why do you enjoy it? Are there certain sentences that are especially vivid? Why do you enjoy reading sentences that feed your mind with images? Does the author engage your senses? How about you emotions? Do certain words or sounds in the writing appeal? Fwiw, I think it will be more interesting for kids anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidlit Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Off-topic: Our co op meets weekly, so I can't decide how I'd make a bookclub like this work there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I think you are right about the antagonist being ignorance.Remember, though, part of the process is seeing what the kids think, too and "unpacking" their thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Okay, I went and dug out Miss Agnes from our children's books and reread it. I like to start with the protagonist. In this book I'd say it's Fred. Of course the narrator isn't always the protagonist, but in this story, we follow Fred's fears and worries, we wonder what's going to happen to her. So what does Fred want? Right in the very first sentence of the book, she asks, "What's going to happen now?" And she's asking about whether she will have a teacher. Fred's problem is whether she will have a teacher. What stands in the way of getting what she wants? the old teacher has left maybe they won't send another one even when teachers come, they don't stay when Miss Agnes comes, she seems different, not like a normal teacher the big boys might misbehave and drive her away maybe she won't like fish and leave biggest problem of all: she's going back to England The climax comes at the end when Miss Agnes is leaving. It is the moment of highest tension and when the conflict seems to be resolved (no more Miss Agnes). If it ended here, we would feel very unsatisfied. But there is one more chapter that offers a surprise ending: Miss Agnes has returned. So not only will Fred have a teacher but she will have the very best teacher of all. At least, that's my plot analysis. You could argue that the climax comes when the girls peep through the school window to see who the new teacher is, since that is when the true resolution of the conflict happens. But it really feels to me like it's at the earlier point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Kirkpartick Hill writes interesting and readable books but for lit analysis? Ooof. We ran into a similiar problem with her Do Not Pass Go book - tricky to nail down exactly who the "bad guy" or antagonist was (we ended up voting for poverty, but it was a tough call). I would put "Year" as a Man vs Society book with Miss Agnes as the protagonist. I think you are right on that the antagonist is the culture of ignorance and limited choice. The conflicts are so gentle in the book - you almost have to list out her successes (Fred's sister, the artwork, tutoring) to see where what she did went counter to the culture of the village. Climax is probably when she announces she is leaving - will the village drop back into the former ways or will Miss Agnes' way of learning stick with them? You know this book has a sequel, right? Miss Agness and the Ginger Tom, I think it's called. Interesting note: Hill homeschooled all her kids ETA: Ha! I just read Cosmos' post - I can argue it that way too! Though I still like Miss A best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Cosmos and AK_mom4, thank you! Your thoughts helped to gel what I have been mulling over and I do think the climax is when Miss A leaves. I have been struggling with using Fred or Miss A as protagonist. Both of your arguments are compelling. Regarding the conflict, it's weird. Because she doesn't go counter to the village culture. She doesn't come in and tell the kids to get an education so they can "get out of this moth-eaten town". She works with the culture. She wants to strengthen the culture with education. She doesn't put down Marie because her dreams are to be a mother. She encourages her to become educated, and even affirms her dreams by writing her a book about the future Marie as a mother of a big family. That's what I love so much about this book. She doesn't go around telling everyone how backwards they are, blah, blah, blah. It's like she takes these people where they are at and gives them an identity and the tools they need to do what they want to do. Not some preconceived notion she. If hot have of what they should do. She doesn't try to change them. She affirms them and helps to make them better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Except this..... Isn't the conflict supposed to be between the protagonist and the antagonist, so if the conflict is defeating ignorance, then how can Miss A's leaving be the climax? She's not leaving because she "won the war" she's leaving because she misses England. Maybe the protagonist is Fred, and the antagonist..... Gotta figure that out, but the climax is when she discovers she really can be who she wants to be. She has discovered herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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