mom2bee Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Update to say that there will be no Virtual math club this Fall. Unfortunately the The Virtual Math Club was an idea for a project driven class I was planning to take at my university, but the class has been canceled this semester. There was a death and some reorganization within the department this summer that I was unaware of. The Dept. decided for scheduling purposes to teach the class in the Spring to keep enrollment numbers higher so that the class is not at risk of being cut out of the program. I'm really sorry for the inconvenience! If I had known that the class was rescheduled then I would have never put it out there and gotten any-ones hopes up. I don't know if I'll be able to fit the class into my schedule in the Spring, so I have to say that the Virtual Math Club project is delayed inevitably until further notice. My would-have-been-partners may still use the idea in the Spring, but I can not say for sure. If they do I will let you all know. I'm really sorry for any inconvenience that this has caused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nature girl Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I'm intrigued! I don't know how much my (young) rising K-er would be able to contribute in a K-2 group, but I'd love to be kept informed if things progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Ds would be interested. He's in grade 1 (grade 2 math). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Would you be teaching? What is your experience or training? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 If it was offered by a person/organization with great mathematics credentials and experience, absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerileanne99 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 If it was offered by a person/organization with great mathematics credentials and experience, absolutely. Just out of curiousity (or a fantastic resource for what you are considering!) have you seen Möbius Noodles? Maria Droujkova is gauging interest in packets and support for starting your own, and they just ended an online course in the same style: http://ask.moebiusnoodles.com/questions/301/undefined.html#sidr I am closely following as an exploratory math group for young kids would be absolutely perfect for my kiddo...even if I have to start one of my own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertflower Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Yes. Interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2bee Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 I'm intrigued! I don't know how much my (young) rising K-er would be able to contribute in a K-2 group, but I'd love to be kept informed if things progress.Sure if it progresses out of the conception and planning phase then I'll be sure and let you know Would you be teaching? What is your experience or training? I would be the primary leader but it would probably be a few undergrads who teach on rotation. Or at least we'll all be doing the projects and lessons, I don't know who will do the live session yet...Everyone one on the team has between 2 to 8years working with kids or tutoring elementary mathematics. There would be two HomeSchool grads (me and another girl). It would be a collaborative effort between technology, math education and applied math majors, we'd have a math PhDs over sight but he won't be involved. It will be between 3 and 5 undergrads working on lesson plans and designing projects with supporting notes If it was offered by a person/organization with great mathematics credentials and experience, absolutely. Sorry it's a group of undergrad students. Please see my reply above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 What kind of rabbit trails in mathematics? It sounds like a fun idea but my concern isn't really with credentials/certifications, but my concern is whether my kids who are beyond the traditional scope of elementary math will have any fun? If there is a cost associated, how much? What is the money used for? Is there a limit to the group size? Do you know what type of ideas you would touch on for the different groups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 What kind of rabbit trails in mathematics? It sounds like a fun idea but my concern isn't credentials/certifications, because as a homeschooler credentials to teach seems like kind of a silly concern to have about a free, optional club that doesn't carry weight outside of "did the kids have fun?" I imagine that as a homeschooling parent, you conscientiously ensure that what you are teaching your boys is correct and sound, that it will lead to success as they naturally spiral through concepts over the years? That what they learn as youngsters will serve them well as they hit higher math. I do. But there is a lot of bad math out there. (Have you read Liping Ma?) So yeah, even free is too high a price to pay to have my kids potentially learn and internalize wrong ideas and habits. I am not saying mom2bee's site will amount to that, but that is part of my desire for credentials and experience. (You missed the latter in your dig, thought I would throw it back in there.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I imagine that as a homeschooling parent, you conscientiously ensure that what you are teaching your boys is correct and sound, that it will lead to success as they naturally spiral through concepts over the years? That what they learn as youngsters will serve them well as they hit higher math. I do. But there is a lot of bad math out there. (Have you read Liping Ma?) So yeah, even free is too high a price to pay to have my kids potentially learn and internalize wrong ideas and habits. I am not saying mom2bee's site will amount to that, but that is part of my desire for credentials and experience. (You missed the latter in your dig, thought I would throw it back in there.) Wow, I wasn't making a 'dig' at you. I read and reread my comment to be sure and I don't see what part seemed especially aimed at mocking you/your concerns. I guess without tone/context it could seem like I was trying a jerk move, but I wasn't, don't be so defensive. You are perfectly entitled to your own concerns for your kids education, you should express those concerns and they should be answered by mom2bee or whoever and I'm not hating on you for that or picking on you for that. However, I was expressing that my concerns were different from those already expressed. My kids have almost 0 opportunity for "fun educational enrichment" because it usually costs time or $$$ that I don't have. When I am scouting out educational opportunities for my boys, I concern myself with questions like will they be comfortable? Happy? Engaged? Learning something? How can we build on it at home? I look at this idea as I would a book, movie or anything else we use in our homeschool--I'm probably open to trying it and if it doesn't work out, we won't continue. The same way I check out books from the library and might only use a few chapters from it, or just skip it after the first chapter. If anything, I would wonder where she was getting the ideas/lessons/topics and what text she'd be using, but "credentials" are not big concerns for me and all I was trying to say was that I don't care about credentials and why I don't care about them. (Those American teachers in Ma's Book were credentialed, after all, no? The teachers in my local PS are credentialed, degreed andmany of them were rather experienced. Those credentialed and experienced PS teachers were horrible and I pulled my kids out of PS.) It could be I came off a jerk. I don't know, I am kind of 'off' today, so maybe my comment is snarky/antagonistic where it wasn't meant to be. Either way, I wasn't attacking you or Tibbie Dunbar or anyone else. Please don't find offense where none was intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Wow, I wasn't making a 'dig' at you. I read and reread my comment to be sure and I don't see what part seemed especially aimed at mocking you/your concerns. I guess without tone/context it could seem like I was trying a jerk move, but I wasn't, don't be so defensive. You are perfectly entitled to your own concerns for your kids education, you should express those concerns and they should be answered by mom2bee or whoever and I'm not hating on you for that or picking on you for that. However, I was expressing that my concerns were different from those already expressed. My kids have almost 0 opportunity for "fun educational enrichment" because it usually costs time or $$$ that I don't have. When I am scouting out educational opportunities for my boys, I concern myself with questions like will they be comfortable? Happy? Engaged? Learning something? How can we build on it at home? I look at this idea as I would a book, movie or anything else we use in our homeschool--I'm probably open to trying it and if it doesn't work out, we won't continue. The same way I check out books from the library and might only use a few chapters from it, or just skip it after the first chapter. If anything, I would wonder where she was getting the ideas/lessons/topics and what text she'd be using, but "credentials" are not big concerns for me and all I was trying to say was that I don't care about credentials and why I don't care about them. (Those American teachers in Ma's Book were credentialed, after all, no? The teachers in my local PS are credentialed, degreed andmany of them were rather experienced. Those credentialed and experienced PS teachers were horrible and I pulled my kids out of PS.) It could be I came off a jerk. I don't know, I am kind of 'off' today, so maybe my comment is snarky/antagonistic where it wasn't meant to be. Either way, I wasn't attacking you or Tibbie Dunbar or anyone else. Please don't find offense where none was intended. I do not want to hijack this thread, but in short response and with no ill will, I think referencing another poster's remark as a "silly concern" was unnecessary. But since you commented, I elaborated on my thought process. Yes, presumably the teachers in Ma's study were credentialed. This is why I would personally like to see "great" credentials (as defined by me, LOL, but it surely would not include mere certification in elementary education). Hope your day improves! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Hey, ADA I see your point. Sorry about that, it does sound like a 'dig' or seem that I was making a jerk move, I guess. But honestly, t really wasn't meant that way. One of the biggest attacks against my decision to HS by people is my lack of credentials, I don't even have a college degree, I'm not well-read or anything like that. I don't know what the heck I'm doing, etc...One way that I defend against my (many) naysayers and combat my own self-doubt is reminding myself that credentials aren't all that important in the grand scheme of elementary education. I tell myself that mostly the people with credentials have just read books, taken tests administered by The Officials and possibly done some student teaching also. I can read those same books that the credentialed people read, not take the test, but throw my whole heart into it and do my student teaching on my students In Real Time and just do my best to flex to meet most of the boys needs, even if I don't have the paper to prove it for outside validation. Anyway, my beef with and parental angst over being credentialed/good enough/etc is all my own. I didn't mean to let any slip out and I certainly didn't want it to hit you if some does escape. My post really wasn't a dig at you, it was a reflection of my own insecurities slipping through my defenses. I'm sorry that it was offensive. --Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2bee Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 What kind of rabbit trails in mathematics? We'll we don't have the topics set in stone yet, so any and all suggestions are welcome. But how ever many project ideas we get will determine how often and how long the club can run, but we would like to do something like 8 or 9 projects in 2 or 3 months. Our biggest hang up is that we are currently wrestling with the fact that not all K-2 and 3-5 mathbooks cover the same material at the same time or in the same order. We are trying to find topics that are a mix of fun reinforcement of core basics (no, I don't mean common-core), a few grade and stage level appropriate head scratchers and even an interesting exploration of upper level or out of the box math that everyone can participate in regardless of their individual arithmetic abilities. It sounds like a fun idea but my concern isn't really with credentials/certifications, but my concern is whether my kids who are beyond the traditional scope of elementary math will have any fun? Ideally some of the projects will be art based so that we can explore symmetry, patterns, geometry etc. One project we are working on will tie in to Physical science (weighing marked and unmarked boxes and then using reasoning to estimate the weights of the unmarked boxes and put all the boxes--marked and unmarked in order by weight--this one was my idea. ) We want to find a fun way to include a simple graph theory activity (probably one of those draw this picture but don't lift your pencil pictures), and do some of those easy co-ordinate graph games, and maybe look at a Function Machine. We are trying to find topics at the K-2 group that aren't counting dependent, but can be figured out by reasoning and thinking. We will also be highlight a mathematician past or present so I guess you can say there is 'history' involved but that isn't our focus. There is also the idea of including some more traditional "challenge" type activities at the K-2 level. At the 3-5 level, we'll be doing some of the same/similar activities, but it will require more computation skills and arithmetic knowledge from the participants. One thing that one partner wants to do it get into the why behind the basic algorithms of multiplication and division, so we'll try and do something like that for the 3-5 group. For the 3rd-5th grade group we also want to teach mental-math strategies, introduce integers and guide the kids to come up with the rules for addition and subtraction of integers. We may be able to do one applied math project (where the kids will estimate, measure, graph, and assemble a little house from card stock or something) Nothing super duper advanced, but nothing too rinky-dink either. We really, really aim for it to be fun for the participants and beneficial. We expect that all K-2 and some from the 3-5 group will need a parents help with the live sessions as well as projects. Please KNOW THAT: We are NOT trying to recreate AoPS type work, each group will be aimed at the typical X-grader. We are not trying to cater to the advanced child, but trying to find something that will enrich mathematics even for a kid who can not add/subtract and doesn't know their math facts, etc. This is meant to be fun for kids. If there is a cost associated, how much? What is the money used for? We don't know about a cost yet. IF there is a cost, we'll be doing everything we can to keep it minimal and it will be to cover the cost of materials needed for the club to run, for example, right now, we are toying with the idea of assembling a math kit to mail out to each participant. To ensure that each student will have what is needed to participate we'll have to create and assemble the kits. Kits will most likely be card stock, felt and foam manipulatives. Nothing super-duper. If mics and headphones are needed, we'll probably have each family get those individually. We'll have to personally eat any costs, so we'll be definitely trying to keep costs low. But we don't want to ship out junk either. To figure out how much it will cost a parent we're going to tally up the receipts, round UP to the nearest whole dollar and split it evenly between the students involved and the families participating. We really will be trying to keep costs low, so we'll actually be couponing anything that we can. Is there a limit to the group size? Yes, we'll probably limit each group to 5-8 students just to be sure that everyone will be able to participate during live-sessions and so that everyone has a chance to share and so that we can ensure that everyone gets a kit. Do you know what type of ideas you would touch on for the different groups? Again, nothing is set in stone. We are toying with all kinds of ideas. This project is being developed because there is a seminar/class on using Technology in Instruction that I'm taking as a part of my degree, but the idea is one that I've had for a very long time and it is near and dear to me personally. My group and I are pulling inspiration and ideas from a collection of living math books as well as titles written with Math Enrichment for the K-5 Elementary level crowd in mind. (Think along the lines of: Family Math, (K-5th) Primary Grade Challenge Math, (1st-5th) More Than Counting K, Much More Than Counting K-1, Marshmallow Math (K-2nd, some 3rd) etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2bee Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Just out of curiousity (or a fantastic resource for what you are considering!) have you seen Möbius Noodles? Maria Droujkova is gauging interest in packets and support for starting your own, and they just ended an online course in the same style: http://ask.moebiusnoodles.com/questions/301/undefined.html#sidr I am closely following as an exploratory math group for young kids would be absolutely perfect for my kiddo...even if I have to start one of my own! I am so sorry, some way I missed your reply! Yes, this is one of the books that I have been looking at. If you have any particular projects you'd like to see in the group, then please let us know! We have a ton of options to choose from and it will be great if we can include what the participants (and their parents) want! Our goal is let the students have fun and feel more "in touch" with math, so if there is something that they want to do, then we'd like to hear about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerileanne99 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I am so sorry, some way I missed your reply! Yes, this is one of the books that I have been looking at. If you have any particular projects you'd like to see in the group, then please let us know! We have a ton of options to choose from and it will be great if we can include what the participants (and their parents) want! Our goal is let the students have fun and feel more "in touch" with math, so if there is something that they want to do, then we'd like to hear about it. Sorry if there is some confusion. There IS the book Möbius Noodles she wrote by the same name. But there is also a virtual class and she is putting together materials to train people to make their own math circles...some more problem solving as in a traditional math circle and some more along the line of what I assume you are thinking of for the younger set. Exploratory math that is centered around more conceptual math and less about computation. Hands on 'experiments' and math labs that investigate concepts like symmetry, fractals, intuiting multiplication, and advanced math ideas...but presented in more of a fun activity for even the very young. If you check out the Möbius Noodles blog you can see the amazing things she has done. That is the thing. She is doing much of the work for you and encouraging people to use the materials to start math circles and groups. As the parent of a 4 yr old who is extremely accelerated in math and loves the exploratory math that is exactly what I am looking for. In addition, the blog has an entire section devoted to parents detailing exactly what they would like to see in a math circle/group. Even if you don't end up using any of the materials, I would think that feedback would be very useful to you in this endeavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelmama1209 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 not wrapping my brain around how exactly this would work, but it sounds intriguing and i'm always looking for fun math experiences for my math hating daughter. i'd love to try it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underthebridge Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 This sounds wonderful, I would love to be a part of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ. Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Maybe. If you make a set of manipulatives to mail will their purchase be mandatory? I ask because I have too many math manipulatives and don't wish to bring any more into the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2bee Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Sorry to say it, but unfortunately the The Virtual Math Club was an idea for a project driven class I was planning to take at my university, but the class has been canceled this semester. There was a death and some reorganization within the department this summer that I was unaware of. The Dept. decided for scheduling purposes to teach the class in the Spring to keep enrollment numbers higher so that the class is not at risk of being cut out of the program. I'm really sorry for the inconvenience! If I had known that the class was rescheduled then I would have never put it out there and gotten any-ones hopes up. I don't know if I'll be able to fit the class into my schedule in the Spring, so I have to say that the Virtual Math Club project is delayed inevitably until further notice. My would-have-been-partners may still use the idea in the Spring, but I can not say for sure. If they do I will let you all know. I'm really sorry for any inconvenience that this has caused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertflower Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 No problem! Life happens. :) Sorry to hear about the death........ It's always a good idea to bounce ideas off one another. Thanks for all the hard work you have put into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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