Hunter Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I'm trying to choose some historical fiction to go along with Layers of Learning, and all the homeschool literature lists that I know of are heavily weighted towards Christian novels and novels written about the featured culture interacting with Jews and Christians and Britian. It's slim pickings to find a title just about the featured culture, and even slimmer pickings where the the religion of the featured culture is portrayed in a nuetral or positive light. Are there any secular chronological lists for upper grammar and logic level historical fiction? I'm not against Christian titles, but if I'm only going to read one title about Egypt, I want it to be about Egyptians and their religion, not Jews and their religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The Golden Goblet is a nice one for Egypt without a Judeo-Christian slant. I'm sure there are lists out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 http://www.historicalnovels.info/ http://bookgirl3.tripod.com/historicalfiction.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDoe Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 http://www.wilbursmithbooks.com/books/egyptian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Egyptian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommytoFour Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Maybe look at the booklists on CHOLL http://www.classicalhouseoflearning.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Thank you everyone. These lists are helpful. I was hoping there was a list by someone who is rabidly secular has dealt with this issue head on. I didn't realize how slanted the homeschooling lists were until I started trying to plan. Personally, I'm fine with slanted books in general from ANY religion, and use Christian resources (even ultraconservative and patriarchal) all the time. But I just want books that actually focus on the culture, rather than being a setting for novel about Christians/Europeans. I really liked Boy of the Painted Cave, and would like to find books like that for each LoL unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 There's plenty out there. Post the units and I'll bet we can suggest stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Even Egypt was hard. My entire city only has one copy of Golden Goblet. I do not want a book about the Exodus, and the library doesn't have those anyway. They have hardly any of the Christian slanted books. Ancient Britain. I'd like something from before the Roman Sutcliff books that includes Stonehenge. Rome. I don't want to focus on the Christians or Britain and would like the people in it to be able to practice their religion without being incriminated for it. There is a unit on Greece that I have a Sutcliff book on the Odyssey, but I think I'd like something more focused on daily life of families and relationship between peers. Even though I'm mostly tutoring adults, the ones I'm mostly looking to use these books with, prefer middle school aged characters. I had a long talk with a social worker who knows some of my students and this is what they like and maybe even need, for all sorts of reasons. We had a really interesting conversation.The Odyssey looks good on paper, but I don't think it will be enjoyed or accomplish my main goals. Then I have a unit on I'm not sure what. It's early Middle East, overlapping or after the first civilizations unit, but I need to read it better to figure out the focus. I saw the Hittite book, but it's expensive. I'm planning on pushing though a unit a week, so I need shorter, easier, and cheap ideas. $8.99 books that also need to be shipped and stored add up quickly. I stretched myself badly to buy LoL in the first place. I found some money in a donated book that covered part of the cost–how lucky is that?–but I've really got to keep these costs down. My library is very generous about buying books so I'm going to put in the max of requests every week, that will help on future times I use the curriculum, but it doesn't help me with this first time through. And they are more likely to buy secular books from major publishers. Boy of the Painted Cave was just so perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne J Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 For Greece you could try Theras and His Town. If you like older or free, The Baldwin Project has Our Little Athenian Cousin of Long Ago, and our Little Celtic Cousin of Long Ago (I've not read this, so I am not sure if it meets your needs). I've also read The Spartan Twins and Three Greek Children, from GoogleBooks (I think). Gilgamesh the Hero, while not stricty historical fiction might work for the Middle East. Hmmm. I'll keep thinking... ETA--I see that The Spartan Twins and Three Greek Children are also available at Baldwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankhan Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I honestly do not know much about this area but came up with this. Not sure if it will be helpful or not. www.fivejs.com/g-a-henty-historical-novels-free-for-kindle/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamaraby Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I honestly do not know much about this area but came up with this. Not sure if it will be helpful or not. www.fivejs.com/g-a-henty-historical-novels-free-for-kindle/ Yeah...I wouldn't consider Henty secular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 For Greece you could try Theras and His Town. If you like older or free, The Baldwin Project has Our Little Athenian Cousin of Long Ago, and our Little Celtic Cousin of Long Ago (I've not read this, so I am not sure if it meets your needs). I've also read The Spartan Twins and Three Greek Children, from GoogleBooks (I think). Gilgamesh the Hero, while not stricty historical fiction might work for the Middle East. Hmmm. I'll keep thinking... ETA--I see that The Spartan Twins and Three Greek Children are also available at Baldwin I need to pre-read some of these public domain texts. I've used many public domain texts when I'm reading aloud and can edit on the fly. Most students usually are not as freaked at some things as I think they will be, but…that is the part that worries me sometimes–when they don't freak a little. One student's absolutely favorite book Is Elsie Dinsmore and that book freaks ME out and I just hate having to talk about some parts over and over and over with her that are triggering to me and just WRONG. I definitely need to read Spartan Twins. I liked that as a child. If I pre-read and take notes, I could just have a very short talk before and after the book. I looked at Gilgamesh the Hero. It's right there with the Sutcliff Odyssey. It's just not like Boy of the Painted Cave. I almost wish I hadn't read that book, because it spoiled me I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne J Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Elsie Dinsmore. Shudder. ETA--I know that most of the Greek books I mentioned contain slavery and traditional gender roles, as practiced by the cultures. I do remember having those discussions with my kids when we read them. I don't remember the *condoning* of either, just the matter-of-fact, this is life in Athens/Sparta type thing. But do pre-read. I edit on the fly sometimes too and may have forgotten something awful. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 I honestly do not know much about this area but came up with this. Not sure if it will be helpful or not. www.fivejs.com/g-a-henty-historical-novels-free-for-kindle/ I've been looking at Henty. Reading the Egypt Henty novel right after reading Boy of the Painted Cave, was what shocked me into this search. It was such a let down. Henty is a form of Christian, but even more is the issue that the novels are just SETTINGS for Europeans or at least European WAYS. Curse Boy of the Painted Cave! I was so much more content with these other books before I read it along side the first LoL unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Elsie Dinsmore. Shudder. She loves the book so much she carries it around with her like a teddy bear. It's only the second book she ever finished in her life. How can I attack her second book? That would be like someone attacking Go Dog Go, the book I taught myself how to read with. The first couple books we read are sacred. But of all books! Grrr! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankhan Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Yeah...I wouldn't consider Henty secular. Hahaah, see I don't have a clue :) I will stay out of this one for now, but am really looking forward to all the responses as I too am using LoL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne J Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 She loves the book so much she carries it around with her like a teddy bear. It's only the second book she ever finished in her life. How can I attack her second book? That would be like someone attacking Go Dog Go, the book I taught myself how to read with. The first couple books we read are sacred. But of all books! Grrr! Now there is a juxtaposition--Go, Dog, Go! and Elsie Dinsmore. "Do you like my hat?" "I do not like it" At which point Elsie runs sobbing from the room, wondering how she can be sweeter, more forgiving and more submissive, so he will like her hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 There are those teaching moments of Nirvana, where everything falls into place. Unit one was like that for me. My pre-reading and the notes I took–I feel like I could teach that unit 10 times in a row without getting bored or overwhelmed. And then I moved onto unit 2. The LoL unit is very similar to the previous one, but I came to a screeching halt. It was the historical novel that really made the unit special. Henty Cat of whatever just won't accomplish the same thing or FEEL the same. It was also the talk with the social worker where we were brainstorming some things together after the uproar that took place when I found that money in one of the discarded book that are there for us to help ourselves to. She has been watching me for weeks ever so carefully choosing books and she got curious about the eclectic choices. She and I both have some new revelations about logic level literature and this population and what it can accomplish, after talking together. My current goals are different than they were. I don't think I can accurately articulate them yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Now there is a juxtaposition--Go, Dog, Go! and Elsie Dinsmore. "Do you like my hat?" "I do not like it" At which point Elsie runs sobbing from the room, wondering how she can be sweeter, more forgiving and more submissive, so he will like her hat. Oh. My. God. That is SO funny! :lol: Thank you for that. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 A few titles to get you started -- secular, but I don't know if they are free online texts, but may be at your library: Ancient Egypt - Shadow Hawk (Norton) -- late period Egypt, but before the Greek Ptolemy dynasty Ancient Rome - Detectives in Togas (Winterfeld) - Roman Ransom (Winterfeld) Ancient Celts - Song for a Dark Queen (Sutcliff) -- Boudicca (1st century AD) - Sun Horse, Moon Horse (Sutcliff) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 A few titles to get you started -- secular, but I don't know if they are free online texts, but may be at your library: Ancient Egypt - Shadow Hawk (Norton) -- late period Egypt, but before the Greek Ptolemy dynasty Ancient Rome - Detectives in Togas (Winterfeld) - Roman Ransom (Winterfeld) Ancient Celts - Song for a Dark Queen (Sutcliff) -- Boudicca (1st century AD) - Sun Horse, Moon Horse (Sutcliff) I can never figure out these type of zipped downloads. The unzipping process always seems to fail. They come with a text file called "password", with "Have a Nice Day!" in them, but nowhere to insert that password. The Detective in Togas book was the only book I saw that might work. I don't remember, but I don't think the library has it. I bet if I ask for it, they will buy it. Thanks for the Celt books tips. I'll check those out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Okay, the Celt book is another free eBook, How do I open those?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 For Greece you could try Theras and His Town. If you like older or free, The Baldwin Project has Our Little Athenian Cousin of Long Ago, and our Little Celtic Cousin of Long Ago (I've not read this, so I am not sure if it meets your needs). I've also read The Spartan Twins and Three Greek Children, from GoogleBooks (I think). Gilgamesh the Hero, while not stricty historical fiction might work for the Middle East. Hmmm. I'll keep thinking... ETA--I see that The Spartan Twins and Three Greek Children are also available at Baldwin I'm reading Spartan Twins. I'm a little more than 1/3 way through. So far so good! Thanks for the reminder. This will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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