IEP questions

[Storygirl]

I talked with the student services director for our school district on Friday to find out what we would need to do to get an IEP for DS10. We are waiting for our neuropsych's written report, but in our meeting with her, she recommended seeking an IEP so that we could qualify for some state scholarship assistance for the therapies DS needs.  Also, when our pediatrician saw a list of the neuropsych's findings (just a list I typed up for him until we get the formal report), he suggested we consider public school so that DS could get services. The ped has always been supportive of our decision to homeschool, but he thinks that it might be difficult and expensive to meet DS's needs at home.

 

DS's dx:

*Nonverbal learning disorder

*ADHD combined type (newly medicated for this)

*Sensory processing disorder (sensory seeking)

*Dyspraxia

*LD in math/dyscalculia

*LD in reading comprehension and fluency

*Dysgraphia (poor fluency)

*Poor executive function skills

*Poor facial affect recognition

*Perceptual reasoning skills borderline impaired

*Poor visual perception skills

*Low average IQ

*Anxiety

 

Recommended therapies include speech therapy for R's, OT for dyspraxia and visual perception, social skills group, continued counseling for anxiety.

 

I talked to the school about the possibility of enrolling DS and also asked what an IEP would do for him if we continued to homeschool. She was completely clueless about why we would want an IEP if we were homeschooling and thought we would have to enroll him. Our state does allow partial enrollment, so she mentioned that as a possibility. I got the sense that she has never had a homeschooler ask for an IEP before, so I want to do some research on my own to make sure that I know what our rights are. She's going to send me a pamphlet, and we can read our state department of ed's policies online, but I thought I would also ask some questions here.

 

She said that the process would be:

1) Enroll him in school

2) When school begins in August, refer him for testing (they cannot do this over the summer, because staff has time off)

3) After receiving the referral, they have 30 days to DECIDE whether to test him or not. 

      To make this decision, they will want me to give samples of his work, and they also will want his classroom teacher's input.

4) From that point, they have 60 days to complete an eval. They will do their own test but will also consider our neuropsych's report.

5) After completing the eval, they have 30 days to write the IEP (if they decide one is needed).

 

My concerns:

* He would begin school in August but would not receive any services until mid to late October with this schedule.

* During this time he would be in an ordinary classroom with no accommodations?? He's going to struggle.

* I'm not sure that his dysgraphia and reading issues are significant enough to qualify him for services (she said there must be a significant discrepancy compared to same age peers).

* His dyscalculia will evidently show up with higher math; right now he is doing well in math, so I'm not sure they will do anything for him in math yet.

 

So my questions for those of you who have been through this:

1) What benefit have you received from having an IEP for a homeschooler?  Is it worth the hassle?

 

2) I didn't know they would have 30 days to decide on their own whether to evaluate.  Does this mean that they could tell me that they would not do anything if the classroom teacher doesn't think it's necessary?

 

3) Would the school actually meet all of these needs, or would I have to afterschool or seek outside services anyway? She said they do have an OT and a speech therapist but we would not know how much they would work with him until the IEP process had been completed.

 

4) We are planning a move (within state but to a different school district) sometime in 2015.  Would we have to go through the same process again at the new school?  Would it be better to wait until after the move to start this process and continue to homeschool in the meantime?

 

There is so much to consider.  It's confusing. 

 

[Pen]

I had an IEP for my son, officially for writing, at the local public school, concurrent to homeschooling. He had also had a prior IEP in another state for speech. The prior IEP did not automatically carry over, and when a new evaluation was done, he no longer qualified for help in speech.

 

Evaluation, by law, had to be done within 60 days of a written demand for it. I believe that is national, not state. But I did not actually make a written demand, because it was clear that they were going to be helpful and do the evaluation without making a written demand.

 

Once the evaluation is made there is some area of discretion on whether an IEP is given or not, depending on how far below normal the child is.

 

For us the IEP help was helpful, but also somewhat grueling--driving to a from each day and waiting for him and so on. It was more an adjunct to what I was doing at home (it gave an extra half hour of writing and half our of reading help each day). It also gave us access to high speed internet, which in turn allowed my son to do Talkingfingers.com Read Write Type, which was a big help--there was an hour daily between his two half hour sessions, during which the computers were often, but not always available and we got permission to use them for that purpose, and I also found Khan Academy and this site at that time. And he got to work with several other teachers, which took some pressure off during the very intense time of reading remediation. 

 

My son is an easy child in a school situation, so they were happy to have him, and where it was a close call between offering IEP help or not, allowed me to decide if I did or did not want it (which I decided I did). However, at a certain point he had moved on to where what they were able to offer was below his level and boring to him.

 

He got much more help as a homeschooler than when he had been enrolled full time at that same school. Possibly this was because the administration had changed in the meantime, or because they had gotten some different teachers who were personally extremely helpful, or possibly because there was an incentive to help in order to get him to count as an enrolled while he was receiving services--or maybe because I was right there...   or some combination.  

 

Anyway, while enrolled full time, they just seemed to let him fall through the cracks; as a homeschooler, they gave him what I think was the best help they could.

 

Personally, based on my experience, and that your local school is sounding less amenable, and that I think for you it would be hard to have to do partial homeschool and partial IEP at school,  I would put in a written legal demand for an evaluation now (Wrightslaw.com or other sources could give how to do that), so that it should be done by sometime in October, and keep him in homeschool until they get him evaluated and have offered suitable services for his needs, then enroll him.

[Storygirl]

Thanks, Pen! I am definitely worried about putting him in a classroom for two months without services, so I would rather have him evaluated first, then decide whether to enroll, based on the services they would (or would not) provide. On the other hand, I think it would be harder for him to start school midway through, instead of at the beginning of the year when everyone is learning the new classroom routines.

 

Part of me thinks that we should delay the whole IEP thing until after we move and just work with the other school district. I should call them and find out if they seem more willing to work with homeschoolers.  That school website does say that they desire to help all students, whether enrolled or not, so at least on the surface, it seems like they may be more amenable.

 

I was SURE that we are not required by law to enroll before beginning the IEP process, even though the student services person told us that we would need to.  Also, the 30 day wait while they decide WHETHER to evaluate surprised me. I thought once we submitted our request, they HAD to do it, not just consider doing it. I wonder if the school is adding their own procedures onto the legal IEP process. They have a way of doing things. They want to do it that way. That's the impression I got -- although she was pleasant, she did not seem like she wanted to deviate from what she is used to doing.

 

The partial enrollment thing would be possible, however, it would be logistically difficult, considering I have three other children.  I don't want to disrupt the day for everyone to get him to and from the school.  On the other hand, it is disrupted already when we have to go to his appointments. She did mention the option of the OT (for example) coming to our house, but  when I asked her a follow up question, she seemed a bit murky on how this would work.

 

Our neuropsych did mention that she could link us to an advocate who would work through this with us, but she suggested trying to start the process without one first, since some people might resent an advocate being involved.

 

I'm not against getting an IEP.  I'm not even against enrolling him in school if we decide that that would be best for him.  But without knowing what services they would offer, it is impossible to decide whether it would be better for him there than it is at home. I guess what I am against is jumping through the hoops without knowing if it will help him. I feel like I have to gear up for a battle that I'm not even sure I want to fight. If he were to get really great services, yes it would be worth it.  If not, why bother to begin with?

[Crimson Wife]

You do not have to be officially enrolled to request an IEP, and if you send the written request NOW, then that starts the clock running. They do not have the legal authority to refuse to do assessments over the summer. That's B.S. and I would call them on it. Parents are also legally allowed to self-refer for an IEP, though teachers can certainly refer their students as well.

 

Whether the district has to provide services to you as a HSer or not really varies. Where I live, only students who are enrolled in district schools can have access to services. There is a district-run Independent Study program, and students in the ISP can still qualify for IEP services. But the district would have to agree to her placement in the ISP.

 

I would strongly recommend getting a copy of the book "NOLO IEP Guide: Learning Disabilities" by Lawrence Siegel.

 

[Crimson Wife]

Also Wrightslaw has a lot of good resources on IEP's: http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/iep.index.htm

[Pen]

Thanks, Pen! I am definitely worried about putting him in a classroom for two months without services, so I would rather have him evaluated first, then decide whether to enroll, based on the services they would (or would not) provide. On the other hand, I think it would be harder for him to start school midway through, instead of at the beginning of the year when everyone is learning the new classroom routines.

 

Well, this could depend on whether you think he would be in a regular class most of the time if he had services, versus being in a resource room or special ed room most of the time. If the latter possibilities then he'd be making that change from regular class to special services rooms as a midterm transition anyway.  If this is the child the Christian school could not handle, then he might have troubles in a regular classroom whether he started at the beginning or not.  It also might depend on whether your area is one where people rarely move or go in or out, or whether like many communities nowadays it is pretty mobile.

 

 It also might be important to consider whether if he were in school, it would better allow you to work with his sister and work on what needs to be done to move.

 

 

Part of me thinks that we should delay the whole IEP thing until after we move and just work with the other school district. I should call them and find out if they seem more willing to work with homeschoolers.  That school website does say that they desire to help all students, whether enrolled or not, so at least on the surface, it seems like they may be more amenable.

 

I was SURE that we are not required by law to enroll before beginning the IEP process, even though the student services person told us that we would need to.  Also, the 30 day wait while they decide WHETHER to evaluate surprised me. I thought once we submitted our request, they HAD to do it, not just consider doing it. I wonder if the school is adding their own procedures onto the legal IEP process. They have a way of doing things. They want to do it that way. That's the impression I got -- although she was pleasant, she did not seem like she wanted to deviate from what she is used to doing.

 

The partial enrollment thing would be possible, however, it would be logistically difficult, considering I have three other children.  I don't want to disrupt the day for everyone to get him to and from the school.  On the other hand, it is disrupted already when we have to go to his appointments. She did mention the option of the OT (for example) coming to our house, but  when I asked her a follow up question, she seemed a bit murky on how this would work.

 

Our neuropsych did mention that she could link us to an advocate who would work through this with us, but she suggested trying to start the process without one first, since some people might resent an advocate being involved.

 

I would say that is true.

 

I'm not against getting an IEP.  I'm not even against enrolling him in school if we decide that that would be best for him.  But without knowing what services they would offer, it is impossible to decide whether it would be better for him there than it is at home. I guess what I am against is jumping through the hoops without knowing if it will help him. I feel like I have to gear up for a battle that I'm not even sure I want to fight. If he were to get really great services, yes it would be worth it.  If not, why bother to begin with?

 

Because you won't know till you begin. Really, you may not know till he has been in whatever it is for a while.  And the people who will teach him are probably not the ones you are now needed to jump through hoops with. And because you have a whole household of people to consider and it may be that overall the situation would be improved if he were in school even for a while, allowing you to get moved, etc.

 

 

You could send your demand letter and get the process going now. Then you could still contact the other school and make your decisions. You are writing more here than you would do just to write a letter to the school and get that done.  There are less hoops really for you than for them once you send your demand.  Unless they do not comply, but then you could go to the advocate.

[texasmama]

What services must be provided to homeschooled students varies greatly from state to state and even district to district.  My son had an IEP and received PT, OT and ST while being homeschooled.  He has never been enrolled in the public school district.  My advice is to know your rights as a parent prior to embarking on the process of seeking out services from the public school.  They may not be aware of laws related to homeschooled students, so you need to be very familiar with these.  Also, the quantity and quality of services provided to students varies greatly.  My son received top quality services from our impoverished, small, local school district.  I could not have been happier with the services.

[Storygirl]

My eyes are bleary from reading pages and pages on the Dept of Ed website today.  I'm trying to educate myself.  Thanks to all of you for your advice!

 

It's all just very complicated by our upcoming move. We may not complete the next school year here.  We almost moved this summer but weren't quite ready.  I hate to put him in school and then pull him out.  Even if we make it through the whole school year, we would then be starting over at a new school the following year. It's going to be a big transition for him, since he has always been homeschooled and doesn't make friends easily, so I'm wondering if he wouldn't cope better if we just waited for the school thing until after the move.  We have a lot to consider. This whole IEP thing is brand new for me, so it will take a little time to process.  I don't want to start something and then decide midway that we don't want to complete it.

 

[Χά�ων]

There are so many ways to get services that can fit your budget. I am posting here as a reminder to come back when my brain starts work again.

[Crimson Wife]

I would start the ball rolling on getting the assessment done. You do not need to make a decision about enrollment prior to hearing what services they are willing to offer you. Under Federal law, the district has to do the eval on ALL students, including private and home school students. You can go through the evaluation process, hear what they have to say, and then make a decision about whether or not to enroll him.

 

If you make the written request today, they would have to do the eval by August 2nd, and then if he's found eligible, hold the initial IEP meeting by September 2nd. The Federal IDEA law establishes that timeline, and the school is not allowed to "stop the clock" for the summer. If they do not have the personnel to do an assessment over the summer, then they're out of compliance, and you'd be able to take them to due process.

[Storygirl]

Thanks, Crimson Wife!  I'm ordering the Siegel book, and looked at the wrightslaw website.  I only had a moment to scroll through it so far, but it looks like there's a lot of good info there. I'm making some phone calls about the summer break issue.

 

According to the HSLD website, schools in our state are not required to provide services to homeschoolers.  Of course, they are still required to evaluate.  Since our school personnel seems clueless about dealing with homeschoolers, I will need to make sure I'm fully informed about what they can and can't do.  Thank you for the info!

[Χά�ων]

Things to search for in your area.

 

University that offers Speech And Language Pathology Masters program. Tap into this resource, they are a cheap to free was to get speech and language therapy. DS goes to one that is also working on some things I would normally have thought were OT. It is not true handwriting but it is making letters correctly. 

 

Search for a Scottish Rite Language or Learning Center in your area. And not just in your direct area but check as far as you are able and willing to drive each way. 

 

If your child is on state medicaid you may be able to get gas reimbursement for taking them to therapy and that includes speech and OT though these centers.

 

I have no clue where you live but searching for:

Remedial Learning Center

Learning Disabilities

 

EVERY STATE has a Parent Training Center to help families learn about IDEA and related laws and to advocate for their child in the public schools. The schools are required to give you this information but there is nothing that says it has to be in a font that is readable without a microscope.

 

I noticed the low over all IQ. This makes me wonder. DS's standard IQ test score is 40 points lower than his non verbal score. The difference in how he was treated based on the score was astounding.  With the standard score I got "He is just slow and will need more time." With the non verbal score "There is a severe language problem and he needs this, this and this before he will be able to read." I wish you lived near me or had deep pockets and could travel here, there is a guy who screens for the underlying issues. Taking DS to see him was the best thing I have ever done. I went from have a child who was dismissed to getting real answers, a plan of action. The plan of action was worth it's weight in gold. The guy is awesome. He screens and refers. There is not the pressure for the parent to spend thousands at his facility. Almost everything he screens for can be done elsewhere. I paid cash for some but other things I managed to get covered by DS's insurance. He also helped rule out ADHD in DS. I was thrilled with this because ADHD is not an issue and I feel was just thrown out as another reason. 

[Storygirl]

Thanks, Queen Goddess of the Deep!! (What an interesting name you have!) There is so much helpful information in your post.  I really appreciate it.  I didn't know about the Parent Training Center, so I'll look into that.  And we live near several large universities, so I'll definitely look into what they offer -- that didn't even occur to me.

 

The IQ thing is interesting.  I haven't seen DS's scores yet, but evidently there are big discrepancies in the different categories.  I'll be interested to see the report, because I have always thought that DS was quite bright, and the lower IQ thing was a shocker. He tends to go into a shell when he's not at home and let it all out at home, so I wonder if he came across to them as different than he really is, making them suspect the lower scores were more accurate. Although they did note that they could tell he was an introvert and came across as reserved, so they saw that in his personality.  He's a little firecracker at home and is quite witty; nothing like he is at his therapy appointments or even in his gymnastics classes, where he comes across as a quiet guy. If it were me, I'd suspect that the higher scores reflect his true IQ, not the lower ones. We'll see what the report says.  And I'll keep it in mind as we deal with others.  I can see that people will have a different mindset if they think of him as a bright kid with some challenges instead of as someone with a lower IQ.

 

By the way, I'm referring to the neuropsych as "them," because two people evaluated him.  One who has completed her PhD but was working under the other to complete a fellowship (or something like it?) before gaining her full licensure. The main neuropsych (who is very respected in our area) oversaw her work and did some of the screening as well. I'll be interested to see which of them writes the report (maybe both?). Both of them went over the results with us in person.

 

It sounds like you found a great person to help your son! I'm hoping that we'll find some good local resources (the eval report is supposed to contain suggestions), but if we need to travel, we will.

[twinelmmama]

My sons have similar diagnoses to what you listed.  We attempted to utilize public school for speech and it was a humongous FAIL...in a large, suburban district that is "known" to be a great school district.  It was terrible.  

Visit www.nathhan.org, go to the Resource Room and check out "The IEP Manual".  It is an incredible resource for writing your own IEP.  It is a little spendy - $67, but worth it if you feel like you need an IEP, but don't want to jump through the flaming hoops of government schools.

I tried keeping an IEP for my sons and in recent years, have stopped.  It is too much hassle.  I am their mom and their teacher - I know where their weaknesses are and I know what I'm doing about it.  I can give an answer to anyone who asks and that has been good enough most of the time. 

I second Queen Goddess of the Deep - tap into your local university!  An amazing resource that many people don't even consider.

IMHO, in 18 years of homeschooling, I've never seen any positive come from homeschooling families attempting to utilize government schools.  It is a headache and a hassle with little benefit at the end.  You are better served to put your energies into meeting your sons needs than fighting to get them to fail at meeting his needs in the long run.

 

[Pen]

...     I don't want to start something and then decide midway that we don't want to complete it.

 

 

I can understand not wanting to start on an adoption and then not complete it-- or not wanting to start college and then drop out...

 

But writing a letter that satisfies the legal requirements as a demand for an evaluation is not the same sort of thing. I think you are crossing too many bridges in your mind and worries way before you get to them.

 

If you write the letter and you get an evaluation, it tells you some more information perhaps than you had. And even if you decide not to get the evaluation, they will probably be just as happy and move on to the next kid in line.  It is not that big of a deal. Then you can face a next step bridge, instead of all this maybe this and that for an uncertain future.

 

Personally, I was a bit understanding of not doing the evaluation over the summer, but did get it right near the start of the next fall. I knew they were technically out of compliance, but it was a small rural school district, and I felt it was right to be understanding of teachers being gone and so on.

[Storygirl]

Pen, you have some good points! My personality gets in the way of me making decisions sometimes.  I'm a perfectionist, and I want to do everything just right.  If I don't feel I can  be perfect, I have a tendency not to do it at all (evidence: messy house).  I also tend to overanalyze everything and want to gather tons and tons of info before moving forward. This can be both good and bad. I can feel paralyzed if there are multiple options and I can't come up with one right answer. But sometimes there isn't going to ever be one right and clear choice. I need to learn to just do it sometimes!

 

Of course, with that said, DH and I are still in the process of working out how we want to proceed. This morning we thought we might go ahead and file the request for the evaluation right away. Then we got some more info that we have to consider. Thanks for your encouragement!

[Storygirl]

So I talked to the special education department of the state department of education today, and it was really very helpful.  I wrote some things about it on the s/o IEP thread, but there a couple of things that follow up on what I've been writing here, so I thought I'd just update this thread, too.

 

*The school is not allowed to take the summer off of doing evaluations. They cannot tell me that I must wait until school starts again to begin the process.

I have a mixed response to this. On the one hand, I'm really thankful that we can get this started now and not wait until fall.  On the other hand, I can see the school's difficulty with the timing when the entire school is shut down for the month of July and many people on the evaluation team don't return to work until mid-August. So if their 60 day evaluation time period starts on July 4 and must be completed by September 4, they will in actuality have much less than 60 days to do it. More like two weeks. And right at the beginning of the year, they will be busy with new-school-year things. So it will be tricky for them to accomplish it. I do realize that this is their problem, not mine.  BUT if we push for them to adhere strictly to the guidelines, I would expect some resentment on their part, which may make them less easy to work with throughout the process. I don't want to cause animosity (even if we don't deserve it, I can see it happening). If we want to enroll DS, it is worth it to have an IEP in place closer to the beginning of the school year.  If we want to continue homeschooling, it's less important that it be done ASAP.

 

*The school is not allowed to require enrollment.  If they want a classroom teacher's input, they can send one to our home to observe or evaluate. Good and bad. I'm glad that we can require them to evaluate without enrolling (which is the opposite of what the school told me). Not excited about having a teacher come to our home. Actually dislike that idea -- for many reasons. I asked if the neuropsych report would count as evidence that the testing was necessary, and the dept of ed person said it should be considered. Or if we have had a certified teacher involved somehow (we haven't), they might accept a report from them.

 

*The school is required under the "child find" provision of the law to do psych testing, but they are not required to write or administer an IEP to homeschoolers. They are not required to provide services to homeschoolers. Boo. Since we will have a thorough neuropsych report in hand, I'm not sure that we will need the additional testing if we are continuing to homeschool.  Yes if we decide to enroll DS in school, so that he can get services.  Iffy otherwise, since it won't help us receive any help, except for my next point....

 

* If we require an IEP for state scholarship funds to pay for services (homeschoolers are eligible to apply for this money), the school must provide an IEP for this purpose. Potentially very good. This particular scholarship pays for approved therapy not provided through the schools. The deadline is Nov. 1, so we would need to have an IEP completed before that, but it wouldn't be essential to have it done right at the beginning of the year, which relates to our summer timing issues.

 

* If the school is uncertain about how to work with homeschoolers and comply with the law, they should get help from their state support team. Very helpful to know this.  If I find the school is giving us incorrect information again, I now have someone official to refer her to.

 

So we're going to process this new info for a day or two. But not too long! I'll try not to dither!  :001_smile:

 

I highly recommend is anyone else is having issues with their school personnel telling them things that might not correspond with the law to check with their state. I still have more to learn, but I feel more empowered now, which is a very good thing! :thumbup:

[Storygirl]

I just want to add a note for anyone who is reading this thread and wanting to apply what I've learned to their own situation. Please check with your own state. Each state must comply with federal law, but they may have additional guidelines.  What I found out may or may not apply to anyone else.  For example, your state may require the schools to write IEPs or provide services to homeschoolers. Even in our state, some districts will do more than what is required and provide services that they are not compelled to by law.  If you take something important away from our experience, it is -- do not automatically assume that what your school district tells you is true. Check out the laws for yourself.

[Crimson Wife]

Call me a cynic, but I would be leery of having a district representative come to the house. I have very strong suspicions that a big reason my district sends someone out during the IEP evaluation process is to guage the family's financial resources to hire an attorney and pursue legal action in the event of a dispute. Our district is very large and draws students from all across the SES spectrum. The district representative framed the home visit as being "more convenient" for me, but I got the distinct feeling that we were being sized up by them. I got all sorts of questions about what DH does for a living and whether we had private health insurance vs. Medi-Cal, etc. Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but that was the impression I got from the visit, and I wish that I had just gone to the district assessment center.

[Storygirl]

I don't like the home thing, either.  I don't want to feel that my whole life is under the school's microscope. Maybe the assessor wouldn't come with that attitude, but I would still feel like that. If we end up needing to do this, I will attempt to have them do this teaching assessment at the school or maybe the library instead of at my house. I don't see that they could insist on it being at my house.

 

Interesting about the financial thing. We live in a neighborhood that is unusual for the our school district -- the home values are far different from the average for our area, so that is something for me to think about. It's likely to affect their opinions of our family situation.

[Pen]

Pen, you have some good points! My personality gets in the way of me making decisions sometimes.  I'm a perfectionist, and I want to do everything just right.  If I don't feel I can  be perfect, I have a tendency not to do it at all (evidence: messy house).  I also tend to overanalyze everything and want to gather tons and tons of info before moving forward. This can be both good and bad. I can feel paralyzed if there are multiple options and I can't come up with one right answer. But sometimes there isn't going to ever be one right and clear choice. I need to learn to just do it sometimes!

 

Of course, with that said, DH and I are still in the process of working out how we want to proceed. This morning we thought we might go ahead and file the request for the evaluation right away. Then we got some more info that we have to consider. Thanks for your encouragement!

 

 

Actually, I have that same problem and can relate totally! 

[Storygirl]

We're still puzzling things out, but since we don't believe that enrolling him in public school this year is the best idea, we would only need the IEP to apply for the state scholarship assistance to help pay for therapies (as a homeschooler, he would not receive any services from the school anyway).  As it turns out, our insurance will pay for speech and OT, so I don't think we will involve the public school at this point. We may think differently after we get the full neuropsych report, but that's how it looks right now. 

 

Thanks to all of you for helping me work through this!