advanced placement Advanced Placement History Options

[Sebastian (a lady)]

So I'm trying to figure out what we will do for history next year.  The boys will be 10th and 11th grade.  Last year we did AP US Government and AP Comparative Government (I wanted to take advantage of our living in DC with the US Government). The year before we did a long study of the modern age from 1850 through the Cold War.  It was incredible, spanning about 16 months with lots of Civil War battle field trips and other great stuff.

 

We had considered doing one semester of economics and another semester of an anthropological view of the history of armed conflict. Then I reconsidered because I thought that this would be the last chance my older son would have to prep for a full year AP exam before starting college applications.  (Whatever he takes senior year will not have exam scores back until after college application season is done.)

 

I thought that we might instead do AP European History.  We lived in Europe for three years. European History is a favorite subject at our house.  But as I review the sample syllabi, I'm struck by how much content is in them. There is one week for the Napoleonic wars, one week for the Reformation. I'm not very good at survey courses, because we love to read and dig into a topic.  This seems to be a common complaint. The AP European History course will be revised in a couple of years to have more of a focus on historical techniques and less on specific content.  (I'm not sure what I think of this.)

 

AP US History has been revised. 2014-15 is the first year of the revised course. I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what a revised course would look like. I haven't found samples of the new style of multiple choice questions or free response questions. There will still be a DBQ, but there will also be more short answer responses.  I'm concerned about trying to do a course in the first year of a revision.  But I like the concept of giving more focus on history themes and techniques and less on a march through time.  I think my middle son especially would appreciate not doing a long focus on the 19th century, since he's expressed feeling that he spent a lot of time on that recently.

 

 

Does anyone have particular insight on either European History as currently designed or the revision of US History?  Has anyone done World History recently (because I think it was revised a few years ago with a similar intent)?

 

Any great resources for Euro or APUSH?

[EndOfOrdinary]

:lurk5:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I found the revised AP US History course and exam description. When I searched for AP US History revision I found the Advances in AP page, where the changes to various courses are described.  This page had a link to the new Course and Exam Description. Among the biggest changes are the difference in multiple choice sections.  The number of questions is being dropped, but each question will be in response to a reading. So for example, a quotation from Frederick Douglass is used as a prompt for several questions about slavery and the antebellum period.

 

Also on the Advances in AP page there are several (4 right now) planning and pacing guides. These are something similar to a sample syllabus. The one I previewed was quite detailed and included a long section of resources for each module of the course.

[swimmermom3]

I have lots of great resources for AP Euro and some good ones for AP World History. What exactly do you need?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I have lots of great resources for AP Euro and some good ones for AP World History. What exactly do you need?

 

I'm trying to figure out which course to do this year - European or US History. 

 

On one hand, I'm not keen on doing US History in the first year of a revision, when it's not clear quite what the exam will be asking for, especially with respect to the free response section.

 

On the other hand, the European History course seems like quite a fast paced whirlwind through a lot of facts and dates.  However, if I postpone European History a year, then I have the same issue with doing a course in the first year of a revision.

 

How did your kids do on the European History exam? Did they feel well prepared or overwhelmed by the quantity of information they had to be master of?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Anyone else with thoughts?

 

How hard was it to get in all the necessary information needed for European History?  Did the process suck the life out of history?  (We are used to digging in and doing a lot of related literature and history books and lectures.)

 

If your kid did an AP course in the first year it was revised, how painful was it? I remember that there was a lot of discussion when biology was revised? Wasn't World History changed in the last few years? Does the curve get harder?

 

Has anyone else looked at the proposed revisions for APUSH? Thoughts?

[Muttichen]

All of my kids have taken the AP Euro exam (well, youngest will take it next year.)  So far, they've gotten 4s or 5s.  We did it with PAH, but I am honestly not thrilled with any of the teachers (we've tried Harrison and Paher).  It is a lot of material to cover quickly, but I think it's a good course.  I just helped ds prep for the exam and I was impressed with the depth of knowledge required.

 

We have done several tests in the first or second year of a revision -- French, German, Bio, and Chem.  French and German were fine -- kids got 5s easily.  Bio was a bust -- dd got a 3.  The jury is still out on chem....  I haven't looked at the APUSH revisions.  We're done with that one!

[swimmermom3]

Anyone else with thoughts?

 

How hard was it to get in all the necessary information needed for European History?  Did the process suck the life out of history?  (We are used to digging in and doing a lot of related literature and history books and lectures.)

 

If your kid did an AP course in the first year it was revised, how painful was it? I remember that there was a lot of discussion when biology was revised? Wasn't World History changed in the last few years? Does the curve get harder?

 

Has anyone else looked at the proposed revisions for APUSH? Thoughts?

 

Sebastian, our experience may not be typical so please keep that in mind.  I poured a ton of effort into planning our AP European History course and writing my syllabus. My older kids had taken the class through our ps and had loved it. I had all of their handouts and papers, as well as the link to their teacher's current year's assignments. I went on the field trip to the museum for the discussion on European art, so I knew what to expect. I read until I couldn't see straight, utilizing at least two texts and going over a ton of primary sources.

 

So now, for the true confession: I hated teaching it.  There is a lot of material to cover and limited time. Remember, I had the advantage that ds was taking AP English Language, so I had less work to do in teaching the essay portion. I only had to adapt, not start from scratch. 

 

We finished all of our reading three weeks prior to the test, which would have given us time to study. Instead, we went back to where we left off our history studies last year and proceeded along in the manner in which we have come to love.  Starting with the Industrial Revolution, I had began to incorporate whole classics per TWTM. We were happier and concepts and themes became three dimensional again instead of flat and dry.

 

The end result was that ds did not test, as he didn't feel ready.  Thankfully, the test isn't the only way to measure our year. Ds learned a ton and feels like he has a good overview. Now, he wants to go back and go deep. I suspect he will pay more attention to the politics. We had read excerpts of Machiavelli early in the year, but actually made it one of his book club readings for AP English Language at the end of the year. He was surprised at how different the book was from its actual reputation.  After Euro was done, he went back to the Greeks and picked Aristophanes up again. Instead of just laughing at the profane humor, he is analyzing the political commentary and the rhetoric and comparing it to Jon Stewart. 

 

I am fully confident that you are capable of doing AP Euro at home, doing it well, and getting your guys 4's or 5's on the test. The question for you will be, is that the way you want to teach and is it the way your guys will want to learn?

 

There are a ton of good resources out there and I am happy to point you in the right direction.

 

[swimmermom3]

I'm trying to figure out which course to do this year - European or US History. 

 

On one hand, I'm not keen on doing US History in the first year of a revision, when it's not clear quite what the exam will be asking for, especially with respect to the free response section.

 

On the other hand, the European History course seems like quite a fast paced whirlwind through a lot of facts and dates.  However, if I postpone European History a year, then I have the same issue with doing a course in the first year of a revision.

 

How did your kids do on the European History exam? Did they feel well prepared or overwhelmed by the quantity of information they had to be master of?

 

Tough question. I like the look of the revisions, but I remember reading some fairly scathing reviews after the biology revision, so I understand your hesitation.

 

The safer route is probably Euro this year and then US next year; this avoids revision issues. On the other hand, if you are not risk-averse, you may find the classwork for the revisions more rewarding. Your kids have a really strong background in US History, so taking it this year could be more than okay.

 

Does this make any sense? I have older kids wondering in and out looking for their keys, a younger one muttering about conics and an old cat threatening to puke. I may have just told you that sending your kids to inner Saigon without a chaperone is a good idea.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

 

I am fully confident that you are capable of doing AP Euro at home, doing it well, and getting your guys 4's or 5's on the test. The question for you will be, is that the way you want to teach and is it the way your guys will want to learn?

 

 

This is the crux of the question right here.  I'm not really sure what my answer will be.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Tough question. I like the look of the revisions, but I remember reading some fairly scathing reviews after the biology revision, so I understand your hesitation.

 

The safer route is probably Euro this year and then US next year; this avoids revision issues. On the other hand, if you are not risk-averse, you may find the classwork for the revisions more rewarding. Your kids have a really strong background in US History, so taking it this year could be more than okay.

 

Does this make any sense? I have older kids wondering in and out looking for their keys, a younger one muttering about conics and an old cat threatening to puke. I may have just told you that sending your kids to inner Saigon without a chaperone is a good idea.

 

 

This does seem to be what I'm weighing.  I can do Euro, because there are established understandings of what the test will include and many study guides for it.  But US may be a better choice because it allows for a richer experience.

[swimmermom3]

When we finished our AP Euro reading and decided not to take the test, our initial gut feeling was "No AP for history, we love the subject too much." Now that ds has his first AP test under his belt, he is wavering. I think we are both in that untenable position of wanting to do history our way and having enough ego for him to want to ace a history test and for me to want to have outside proof of my teaching.

 

The plan for now is to go on our merry way, going deeper and incorporating our US History in the global context. We are going to leave 

March and April to review if he decides he wants to go for AP Euro in spring 2015.

 

Part of our history problem is that history our way means watching Foundations of Eastern Civilization during breakfast even though we are doing European history. Well, it was a new course that would have fit with last year's studies, so we just had to watch it. :tongue_smilie: Then ds rediscovered the Daniel Boorstin books and now we have "Boorstin Hour" on Fridays where we read whatever catches his eye in any of the 6 books and then mark it off in the TOC.

 

You are more disciplined than I am, but I also know that making history a "rich" experience is important to you. Maybe you and the boys can pick just one to pursue an AP score in; see how you like the process, and then go from there.

 

If you go with APUSH, I want to hear about your text selection process. It was easy to pick AP Euro texts; reading about APUSH texts gives me heartburn. I don't need PC left or "America's perfect" right, but I would like academically well-researched and well-written. This seems to be harder to find with US History books.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I love the idea of Boorstin hour.  Have you guys read The Image? I really wanted to have the boys read that as part of US Government, but time got away from us.

 

[swimmermom3]

No, we haven't read it, but it's in my Amazon basket because you wrote about it in another thread and I had never heard of it.

 

Let me toss out an idea and get your opinion. Ds plans to work on his reading speed over the summer. He wanted me to assign reading, but I told him it would be better to pick something challenging that he enjoyed. For a cynical 16 yo guy who loves politics and is a Boorstin fan, would this be a good choice? Obviously I would need to preread it, because I know ds would want to talk about it. Or should I leave him alone with his 721 pages of the Arabian Nights with Burton as translator? :D

[Sebastian (a lady)]

No, we haven't read it, but it's in my Amazon basket because you wrote about it in another thread and I had never heard of it.

 

Let me toss out an idea and get your opinion. Ds plans to work on his reading speed over the summer. He wanted me to assign reading, but I told him it would be better to pick something challenging that he enjoyed. For a cynical 16 yo guy who loves politics and is a Boorstin fan, would this be a good choice? Obviously I would need to preread it, because I know ds would want to talk about it. Or should I leave him alone with his 721 pages of the Arabian Nights with Burton as translator? :D

Well it won't make him less cynical. I think Boorstin predicted the celebrity obsessed world well.

 

I read most of The Victory Lab last fall and really enjoyed it.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

A couple of random thoughts I had on the same topic.

 

If I want to consider AP Scores as part of the Admissions process, delaying APUSH a year will allow an AP class on the transcript for admissions but not oblige me to provide scores for admissions but will give the student the ability to properly prepare for a known exam rather than an unknown.  The scores can still be used in the college they end up attending.

 

Having a survey course in high school is not necessarily a bad idea.  Many college courses are broad survey courses of a variety of topics during the first years and these translate into the limited but deeper study allowed in later courses.  Being prepared to handle the quantity and breadth of a survey course is not necessarily a bad idea.  I would create projects, essay topics, etc. that allowed for greater in depth study of a particular topic and keep the course at the survey level.  I think is is important to be able to not only approach history in depth and as specifically as possible but also to compare trends and changes across large periods of time and space.  These are certainly skills that will be required at college level.

 

Some of the recent AP changes leave me with the impression that they are simultaneously gutting courses and increasing expectations.  The process is quite confusing.  I've read about how difficult the Biology exam became after the changes and yet I look at the changes ahead for Art History and can't help but think they are gutting the course and making it much less than the typical college intro course.  I'm just not sure what they are up to over at CB.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Some of the recent AP changes leave me with the impression that they are simultaneously gutting courses and increasing expectations. The process is quite confusing. I've read about how difficult the Biology exam became after the changes and yet I look at the changes ahead for Art History and can't help but think they are gutting the course and making it much less than the typical college intro course. I'm just not sure what they are up to over at CB.

I do not know if this is the case everywhere, but I know in Washington state schools are severely pushing AP. My husband's district even has PreAP middle school track. He is being told every student should be able to handle AP English by Junior year. His job is to make freshmen and sophomores ready, regardless of whether they take the test. It is not the test the district cares about, it is their enrollment numbers.

 

So, if they gut the classes, more kids can take them. The kids do not have to take the test, just have stacks of AP classes looking great on the transcript. The district can then claim this fabulous percentage of kids working at "AP level" and look awesome.

 

I have nothing but anecdotal evidence that this is the reason, but it is driving my husband a bit nuts.

[Joan in GE]

Dd is signed up for Euro course next year and there's a lot of summer reading....so start early if you're going for it...Joan

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Dd is signed up for Euro course next year and there's a lot of summer reading....so start early if you're going for it...Joan

 

Alas, the best I think I'll be able to do will be to start on time and be fully ready. Our cross country move caused a lot of disruption this year and we are still finishing some things off.  I may be able to get some shorter readings or audiobooks through them over the summer, but not much more.

 

On the other hand, unlike in a public school class, I know that my kids are pretty strong readers and will in fact read an awful lot during the year for me.

 

I think we have definitely decided that AP US will be our course this year.

[swimmermom3]

Sebastian, you might think of "borrowing" someone's summer assignment in the Teaching Community or online.

 

For AP Euro, I assigned a chapter over the summer on the "medieval crisis" that set the stage for the Renaissance. Many teachers also assign reading for the Renaissance. I just could not see giving such a rich period  short shift, thus I began our AP history tour already in conflict.

 

Most of the kids in AP history classes are strong readers. You have to be, because the work can often be up to 50 pages of college-level text a week, plus notes.   What I don't get is if I were taking these courses as an introductory survey in college, all I would have to do is read the text, take a mid-term and final and maybe write a paper or two. It would be about half the work an AP student has to do.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Sebastian, you might think of "borrowing" someone's summer assignment in the Teaching Community or online.

 

For AP Euro, I assigned a chapter over the summer on the "medieval crisis" that set the stage for the Renaissance. Many teachers also assign reading for the Renaissance. I just could not see giving such a rich period  short shift, thus I began our AP history tour already in conflict.

 

Most of the kids in AP history classes are strong readers. You have to be, because the work can often be up to 50 pages of college-level text a week, plus notes.   What I don't get is if I were taking these courses as an introductory survey in college, all I would have to do is read the text, take a mid-term and final and maybe write a paper or two. It would be about half the work an AP student has to do.

 

I'm not short on ideas for what I could have them read; I just don't have time for them to do much reading. They will each be away from home at various camps for about a month of the summer. There will be some opportunities for me to give them articles or short readings or to play lectures in the car. But I'm not planning on giving them an extensive summer assignment.

 

I'd love to have them doing more, but it would come at the expense of other academics they are already doing throughout the summer. Their time away from home is their only break this year. That's just how it is.

[TiaTia]

Sebastian, did you and your guys decide to go with the new APUSH this year?  If so, how's it going?  I won't be cycling back to AP US History until next year or after, after the dust has settled w/the new version.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Sebastian, did you and your guys decide to go with the new APUSH this year? If so, how's it going? I won't be cycling back to AP US History until next year or after, after the dust has settled w/the new version.

No.

After going back and forth for a couple months I concluded that too many of the professional AP teachers couldn't figure out what should be in the course and it wasn't a year to be making things up on the fly.

 

We went with Euro. I don't know if we'll attempt AP US. I think there is a lot of over the top reporting about the APUSH revision. (Charges that the founding fathers and Lincoln have been prohibited, assertions that school boards are censoring teachers, etc).

 

But I also see that the framework is quite dense and not so easy to discern. It's not just a matter of putting together a course that meets audit standards. It's preparing students to do well on a high stakes exam. And for a homeschooler that AP score really matters. If my kids test and get a 1 or 2 because we weren't aligned with the exam, it may have been better to do a great US history class the way I wanted rather than twist into an acceptable AP shape.