Struggling with WWE

[skboren]

My kids are really struggling with WWE. To say they dislike it would be a gross understatement. My 4th grader can NEVER repeat back to me any of the dictation passages after I've repeated it three times. It takes a good 20 minutes of painstaking word-by-word and phrase-by-phrase repetition to get to a point where she can repeat it back to me. At the rate we are going she will be 16 before she can finish the 4th grade book. And my 2nd grader sometimes requires that I repeat paragraphs from the passage 4 or 5 times before he can answer all the comprehension questions. These are kids who test at or above (sometimes significantly above) grade level in every subject on the typical standardized tests. They're not slow kids by most standards. So I am starting to feel like just dictating one sentence at a time for the 4th grader, and just not worrying about how many times I have to repeat sentences from the passages to the 2nd grader. Has anyone faced a similar challenge? Does anyone, rather than revert back to earlier/easier levels of WWE, just adapt the current level so that it provides a reasonable but attainable challenge for the child?

 

Thanks!

[Momof3littles]

Have you watched SWB's videos of doing WWE w/ her son?  My son is pretty talented at LA, and when we were doing WWE 3, he could not remember everything in one swoop for some of the dictation passages. I have a good memory, and at times I know I would have failed had the roles been reversed.  Just work with them where they are, and encourage them to hold what they can in their head.

 

Would your son do any better with reading the paragraph vs. listening?  Did he do WWE1?  We've never had an issue with the comprehension, but maybe it isn't a good fit for him at the moment.  I don't have any suggestions, other than maybe having him try reading it himself vs. listening if he's a strong enough reader?

[Miss Tick]

Definitely watch "Dictation with Dan", be sure to read the pinned thread from SWB so you see where this is all headed and how many years you have to get there, then think about what your goals are four the program.

 

The comprehension questions are there to train their brains to listen to and understand what they are hearing.

 

The goal of narration is the ability to summarize, which comes in handy for things like note-taking later.

 

Dictation helps them learn to keep thoughts in their heads long enough to write them down.

 

Not everyone uses WWE to accomplish these goals and not everyone shares these goals.

 

If you do use WWE, and you are aiming for those goals, you can still modify it to work for your family. Repeat paragraphs as neededor tell him the questions before reading, for instance and then ease away from those tweaks when he is ready.

 

Break the dictation in two pieces or just shorten it or usr dictation from other schoolwork that she has more investment in.

 

You might also try a Google search of the forum to turn up previous threads on this topic, you are not alone!

[MotherGoose]

Do you read aloud at other times? That might help too if you don't.

[EmilyGF]

Have you checked out SWB's alternative schedule? I think it is on the sticky at the top of K-8 Curriculum - "If you use WWE or WWS".

 

With CAP's WR out now, there are a lot of people (including me) who are using it for a time before coming back to WWE. My son did OK with WWE2, but was in tears with nearly every WWE3 assignment. Now he is doing much better with WR and actually enjoying it. I felt like WWE3 was so hard for him that he wasn't actually learning anything - like a fire hydrant on so hard that you can't manage to get a drink from it. Now he has a garden hose and is enjoying drinking! 

 

Also, I think the kids can still benefit from copywork. You might try having the passage as copywork two days before you give it as dictation, like is done in younger grades. 

[Lara in Colo]

With the comprehension:  I tell my child to close his eyes and picture a white piece of paper.  Everything I say-- add it to the paper.  If I say it was a spring day-- what will your paper look like?  If I say it is raining on this spring day, how did your picture change-- when I say a bunny- add a bunny.    

 

This really seems to help with the retention of the material and I think it helps them convert word to pictures in their heads and makes reading faster and more enjoyable.

[OneStepAtATime]

Lots of great responses here.  I would add that some kids just are not auditory learners.  My DD and I do very poorly with auditory input only where as my DS does great.  Different kids (and parent), different strengths.  If they can read the passage with you, so they have a visual reference, that might help.

[PeachyDoodle]

Lots of great responses here.  I would add that some kids just are not auditory learners.  My DD and I do very poorly with auditory input only where as my DS does great.  Different kids (and parent), different strengths.  If they can read the passage with you, so they have a visual reference, that might help.

 

My dd and I are also very much NOT auditory learners. She aces copywork and narration like a champ (ETA: I do allow her to read the narration passages herself. She does much better answering the questions when she has seen it.). But this is one reason I continued to push dictation, even though she dislikes it and finds it extremely challenging. There are some situations in which assimilating information via audio is necessary (e.g., college lectures), and I want her to develop those skills.

 

That said, it wasn't until someone suggested watching "Dictation with Dan" that I discovered that I was doing. it. all. wrong. SWB does not just rattle off the sentence three times and expect him to repeat it back. Maybe that's a really "duh" thing to say, but that's exactly how I approached dictation. (Amazing how many dumb mistakes I have to look back on after only one year homeschooling... :bored:)

 

Dd was so burned out that I decided to take the rest of this year off and start back with dictation in a few months. We will be doing WWE4 because I think she needs the challenge in the narration exercises, but I fully expect to go slow and/or modify the dictation sections. I think refining my technique will make an enormous difference. I had dd watch the video as well, and she agreed that SWB's technique would be much easier for her than mine!

 

[hollyhock]

No one's mentioned this yet, but if you are using the workbooks, the dictation passages are much longer than what is recommended in the instructor text. By the end of WWE 4 it says the dictation sentences should be 25-30 words tops. So check the length of the ones you are trying to do. You may be able to shorten them significantly and make your life easier.

[skboren]

I'm sorry for the delay in replying. I cannot tell you all how helpful your suggestions and comments have been! We are breaking up the dictation passages into 20-25 word chunks for the 4th grader, and I am not sweating it when we need to repeat paragraphs or sentences while going through the comprehension questions for the narration passages with the 2nd grader. Things are going much better for us.

 

I watched the "Dictation with Dan" video, and that made me realize we really don't have to be perfectionists about this. 

 

MaryAnnA, we do read aloud at other times, about an hour daily. But I could see where listening comprehension would be an even greater challenge if we were not doing this.

 

EmilyGF, thank you for pointing me to the alternate schedule. I'm also looking into CAP's WR as a possibility for the fall. I hadn't even seen that before. 

 

I think I will keep on using WWE4 for the older kiddo, because I gave her the WWE3 evaluation and she struggled some, and left off the quotation marks. 

 

Thank you, everyone. I really appreciate the input!

 

Shauna