Ask an Orthodox Jew

[Redeemed7]

Eliana,

 

Thank you so much for your kind responses. I believe you answered all my questions. You are very sweet to go back through the posts to find Yael's comment. I thought she said something like this. Often, when I scroll back through the posts I still miss what I'm trying to find. I appreciate you clarifying for me.

 

If I remember right she's on the east coast and you're on the west? I've never actually been to a homeschool conference before. I think about it every year, but never go. Do you find that there is enough homeschool material that fits your worldview? I see a lot of homeschoolers complaining because there isn't a lot aimed at their particular situation.

 

Is this your first grand baby? How exciting! Are you going to get to be there for the birth? Babies are such a blessing. Congratulations to you! I wish you a safe and joyous trip.

[ficbot]

Yael, thank you so much for your kind reply. This has been an interesting thread for me.

[Laurie4b]

I have read most of this thread, but not every single entry, so if this has been asked and answered, please forgive me . Within Orthodox Judaism, are the accounts of the flood, the Exodus,  the conquest of Jericho, Job, Jonah, etc. viewed as historical records or as important stories with spiritual meaning?

[YaelAldrich]

They are both historical happenings and important stories filled with spiritual meaning.  We not only read the Written Text of the Bible but also have an Oral Tradition which encompasses spiritual and philosophical ideas to teach us as well.  

[Lieutenant Stranger]

Ok, so this is probably not what you were thinking of....but I've always been super curious.

 

Have you ever done (taken part? I'm not sure the correct word usage) Mikveh after menstruation?  What is it like to do so, if you have? 

 

Thanks in advance. I couldn't pass up the opportunity to ask.

[YaelAldrich]

Ok, so this is probably not what you were thinking of....but I've always been super curious.

 

Have you ever done (taken part? I'm not sure the correct word usage) Mikveh after menstruation?  What is it like to do so, if you have? 

 

Thanks in advance. I couldn't pass up the opportunity to ask.

Yup!  As a married Jewish woman I do go the mikvah (at minimum) twelve days after menstruation since I like to have TeA with my dear husband.  :blushing:  Can't have TeA without mikvah!

 

I have to take a road trip right now, but I will be back to talk more in a couple of hours....

[Reefgazer]

Where is the mikveh?  In your home, at a "spa" type place, in a separate building in the community...?  What do you do if there is no mikveh around? 

Yup!  As a married Jewish woman I do go the mikvah (at minimum) twelve days after menstruation since I like to have TeA with my dear husband.  :blushing:  Can't have TeA without mikvah!

 

I have to take a road trip right now, but I will be back to talk more in a couple of hours....

 

[Laurie4b]

They are both historical happenings and important stories filled with spiritual meaning.  We not only read the Written Text of the Bible but also have an Oral Tradition which encompasses spiritual and philosophical ideas to teach us as well.  

 

So do orthodox Jews follow archaeology/geology news? There are many assertions by archaeologists that there isn't evidence for the Exodus. How does the orthodox Jewish community address that?

[YaelAldrich]

OK, mikvah (or mikveh, mikva, mikve - oh, transliteration!) is the body of "living waters"  immerse themselves to change their spiritual status.  It could be for a woman after menstruation, or for a non-Jew in the last part of conversion to become a Jew, a man before prayers, or long ago (when we had a Beit HaMikdash/Temple - see previous posts for more information) to go to give sacrifices at the Beit HaMikdash.

 

Nowadays, women are the primary users of the mikvah after menstruation (plus a week).  During menstruation (and for seven days after) husbands and wives don't sleep in the same beds, touch, hand things to each other, make TeA, hug, kiss or flirt.  We are not "dirty" or "impure" or sent out of our homes to a Red Tent, don't wear special clothing to indicate our status.  In menstruating, we had the potential to create and host life, but in that cycle we were unable to do so.  So menstruation causes us to change status and mikvah is the way to change that status back to one in which we could fully engage in a physical relationship with our spouse.

 

To get ready for the mikvah, we make sure we have stopped menstruating, check ourselves externally and internally to make sure the bleeding has stopped and check ourselves internally and externally for a seven day period after the first "clean" check.  Then we take special time on the seventh day to make sure we clean our body extra well to make sure the living waters of the mikvah are able to touch all parts of our body.  On the eighth evening, we go to the mikvah. The mikvah is usually in a building in the community.  Almost every Jewish community has a mikvah; in fact, it is a commandment to build a mikvah before a school or synagogue.  If for whatever reason there is no man-made mikvah, people can use some lakes or rivers and any ocean.  I've gone in the ocean in Hawaii and in Japan.  Hawaii was pleasant, Japan (in November) not so! :D  There will be shower and bath rooms in the mikvah for women to complete their preparations and one or more mikvaot.  A mikvah is constructed to utilize water from nature -snow and rain - and the natural water is conducted through conduits different than pipes as the water must be considered as to gather together naturally without undue human interaction.  Here are some pictures of mikvaot http://jewishexponent.com/mikvah-association-philadelphia-western-0 http://www.mikvah.info/  http://jstandard.com/content/tag/mikvah  http://www.mikvah.org/tour  http://www.shturem.org/index.php?section=news&id=22281  http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=23584  When a woman is prepared to go into the mikvah, she calls on a mikvah lady, a woman at the mikvah there to make sure the immersing woman has all of her body under the water to finalize the process.  After this process, the woman is free to restart her physical relationship with her husband.

 

When I was newly married it was fun to take a couple of hours to myself and give myself a spa experience, during my four pregnancies and the times in between I didn't go very much since I didn't menstruate.  Now that I am a lady with four nosy kids and a husband who is home about half the time, it's a bit more tiresome but the first time back together is WOWZA!  :drool5:  :thumbup:  :party:

[Reefgazer]

This has been such an interesting thread, and I've learned so much!

[YaelAldrich]

So do orthodox Jews follow archaeology/geology news? There are many assertions by archaeologists that there isn't evidence for the Exodus. How does the orthodox Jewish community address that?

The ones interested in archaeology keep up with such stuff; the rest of us, not so much.  Really, I don't think anyone cares if there is evidence one way or another. It's our history and we don't think we'd be here (unlike the Mesopotamians, Sumerians, Romans, Greeks, etc) if it weren't true. They were "real"er and bigger and are relegated to the dustbin of history (paraphrased from Mark Twain)....

[chaya]

repetitive post, sorry

[Hunter's Moon]

I remember reading somewhere, or maybe someone told me - In general, Jews avoid speaking about anyone, negatively as well as positively. Something about leading to gossip. How does this play out in day-to-day life if this is in fact an actual Jewish observance. What if someone listed you for a job reference or something? 

[Laurie4b]

What do you call your Scriptures?  I sometimes read the phrase Hebrew Bible or Jewish Bible , but I wonder if this is a Christian phrase. I think Tanach refers to all of them, and Torah to the first 5.  These are the books before the New Testament that Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox agree are in the canon. It's my understanding that this is the same group used by Jewish believers, but correct me if I'm wrong!

 

1. Genesis
2. Exodus
3. Leviticus
4. Numbers
5. Deuteronomy
6. Joshua
7. Judges
8. Ruth
9. 1 Samuel ( called 1 Kingdoms by Orthodox)
10. 2 Samuel ( called 2 Kingdoms by Orthodox)
11. 1 Kings ( called 3 Kingdoms by Orthodox)
12. 2 Kings ( called 4 Kingdoms by Orthodox)
13. 1 Chronicles( called Paraleipmenon by Orthodox)
14. 2 Chronicles( called Paraleipmenons by Orthodox)
15. Ezra
16. Nehemiah
17. Esther
18. Job
19. Psalms
20. Proverbs
21. Ecclesiastes
22. Song of Solomon
23. Isaiah
24. Jeremiah
25. Lamentations
26. Ezekiel
27. Daniel
28. Hosea
29. Joel
30. Amos
31. Obadiah
32. Jonah
33. Micah
34. Nahum
35. Habakkuk
36. Zephaniah
37. Haggai
38. Zechariah
39. Malachi

Then there is the secondary canon/apocrypha. (I am not entirely sure how Catholic Christians or Eastern Orthodox Christians view these books.And I'm confused by the differences between Anglican and Catholic versions, but whatever! ) My understanding is that these books aren't considered Scripture for Jews. Correct?

 

Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus [or Wisdom of Sirach],Baruch, 1 ,2,3 Maccabees, 1 and 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, the Prayer of Manasses, and various additions to Daniel and Esther. (There are disagreements between Orthodox, Catholic, and Anglican as to exactly which books of these belong in the Scripture, and whether they have the same fullness of authority as the rest of Scripture, but I don't want to get into that.)

 

My question is: Do these books show up anywhere in Jewish literature? (My understanding is that several were in the Septuagint , but were not included when the official Hebrew canon was authorized.) What is their standing? Hannukah is based on the events in Macabees, correct? Anyway, I am interested in how the Jewish community regards these books now.

 

(Yael answered my question about archaeology by saying it wasn't something she herself delved into. If anyone else does, I would still be interested in what you think about my question in post 357 )

 

 

 

[Laurie4b]

I would be interested in getting a peek into what your Sabbath Day looks like. I know (or think I know) all the food prep for the dinner Friday night is done before sundown---but what about cleaning up the dishes, wiping the table, etc. ?  What do you do besides attending synagogue? What do you do about preparing breakfast and lunch on Saturday, or do you fast?

[speedmom4]

No, I mean you couldn't have a Jewish service in a space consecrated for a non-Jewish worship place. Not in a church/temple/any other space decorated with stuff from those non-monotheistic religions. Religious space in a military location is in use for many religions but not at the same time. Am I being helpful? :huh:

There is a Jewish temple/synagogue (not sure which term is correct) in my town that meets in a Baptist church. They have shared the space for many years. It was started as a Baptist church quite a while ago. I imagine this is very uncommon.

 

www.jewishcharlotte.org/IR/community-directory.aspx?id=51928

 

Elise in NC

[YaelAldrich]

Be back to answer questions in a couple of hours.  Have to buy a Bar Mitzvah suit for my big boy and his brother (the other two kids have their outfits as do Mom and Dad).

[YaelAldrich]

I remember reading somewhere, or maybe someone told me - In general, Jews avoid speaking about anyone, negatively as well as positively. Something about leading to gossip. How does this play out in day-to-day life if this is in fact an actual Jewish observance. What if someone listed you for a job reference or something? 

 

There are a set of laws in the Jewish system called Hilchos Shmiras HaLashon (the laws of guarding of the tongue).  The rabbi that brought these laws into clear and concise form is the Chofetz Chaim (Rabbi Israel Meir Kagan (19th cent)- the words Chofetz Chaim mean one who desires life.  We often name rabbis after their most famous book.  He was a prolific author, making commentaries on Torah, Gemara, a distilled multi-set volume of the basic Jewish laws and much, much more.)   His books teach all the laws of how to talk ABOUT people (yourself and others).  In general, we are not supposed to gossip/talk about others, whether positive or negative as either can make problems for that person and others' relationships to that person.  If the information is needed for business purposes or marriage purposes (and other super-important reasons), there is some more leeway.  There is an organization http://www.chofetzchaimusa.org/ whose purpose is to disseminate better understanding of the laws of guarding one's tongue.  They make stickers, books, videos, phone messages, and classroom/community programming.  There is also a hotline to ask questions about if one would be able to talk about someone to qualified rabbis http://www.beineinu.org/special-needs/special-needs-shiduchim/708-hilchos-lashon-hara-shidduchim/2069-shmiras-halashon-hotlines .  I've called them before and they are kind, courteous, and helped me understand the right thing to do.

 

In real life, do people gossip.  yes, but honestly it is seen as passe or outre in the circles I travel.  Someone will give the hairy eyeball look and usually that stops it right there.

[YaelAldrich]

What do you call your Scriptures?  I sometimes read the phrase Hebrew Bible or Jewish Bible , but I wonder if this is a Christian phrase. I think Tanach refers to all of them, and Torah to the first 5.  These are the books before the New Testament that Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox agree are in the canon. It's my understanding that this is the same group used by Jewish believers, but correct me if I'm wrong!

 

1. Genesis
2. Exodus
3. Leviticus
4. Numbers
5. Deuteronomy
6. Joshua
7. Judges
8. Ruth
9. 1 Samuel ( called 1 Kingdoms by Orthodox)
10. 2 Samuel ( called 2 Kingdoms by Orthodox)
11. 1 Kings ( called 3 Kingdoms by Orthodox)
12. 2 Kings ( called 4 Kingdoms by Orthodox)
13. 1 Chronicles( called Paraleipmenon by Orthodox)
14. 2 Chronicles( called Paraleipmenons by Orthodox)
15. Ezra
16. Nehemiah
17. Esther
18. Job
19. Psalms
20. Proverbs
21. Ecclesiastes
22. Song of Solomon
23. Isaiah
24. Jeremiah
25. Lamentations
26. Ezekiel
27. Daniel
28. Hosea
29. Joel
30. Amos
31. Obadiah
32. Jonah
33. Micah
34. Nahum
35. Habakkuk
36. Zephaniah
37. Haggai
38. Zechariah
39. Malachi

Then there is the secondary canon/apocrypha. (I am not entirely sure how Catholic Christians or Eastern Orthodox Christians view these books.And I'm confused by the differences between Anglican and Catholic versions, but whatever! ) My understanding is that these books aren't considered Scripture for Jews. Correct?

 

Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus [or Wisdom of Sirach],Baruch, 1 ,2,3 Maccabees, 1 and 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, the Prayer of Manasses, and various additions to Daniel and Esther. (There are disagreements between Orthodox, Catholic, and Anglican as to exactly which books of these belong in the Scripture, and whether they have the same fullness of authority as the rest of Scripture, but I don't want to get into that.)

 

My question is: Do these books show up anywhere in Jewish literature? (My understanding is that several were in the Septuagint , but were not included when the official Hebrew canon was authorized.) What is their standing? Hannukah is based on the events in Macabees, correct? Anyway, I am interested in how the Jewish community regards these books now.

 

(Yael answered my question about archaeology by saying it wasn't something she herself delved into. If anyone else does, I would still be interested in what you think about my question in post 357 )

Great question!  I would call the first five the Torah,Yehoshua (Joshua) through Malachi, Nevi'im, and Psalms (Tehillim), Proverbs (Mishlei), Job (Iyov), The Song of Songs (Shir HaShirim), Ruth (Rus), Lamentations (Eicha), Ecclesiastes (Koheles), Esther, Daniel, Ezra and Nehemiah (Nechemiah), Chronicles (1 and 2) Divrei HaYamim are K'tuvim.  The Apocrypha is not in the Jewish Scriptures. 

[Laurie4b]

Great question!  I would call the first five the Torah,Yehoshua (Joshua) through Malachi, Nevi'im, and Psalms (Tehillim), Proverbs (Mishlei), Job (Iyov), The Song of Songs (Shir HaShirim), Ruth (Rus), Lamentations (Eicha), Ecclesiastes (Koheles), Esther, Daniel, Ezra and Nehemiah (Nechemiah), Chronicles (1 and 2) Divrei HaYamim are K'tuvim.  The Apocrypha is not in the Jewish Scriptures. 

 

Do you have a name for the whole set? Is it a Christianization to call your scriptures the Hebrew Bible? (I've seen that often in print. I don't know if Bible is a Christian term.)

 

What about the books of the aprocrypha? Do Orthodox Jews read them at all for any reason (literature, maybe) ? What about Macabees? Is that the source for Hanakkuh?

 

[YaelAldrich]

Do you have a name for the whole set? Is it a Christianization to call your scriptures the Hebrew Bible? (I've seen that often in print. I don't know if Bible is a Christian term.)

 

What about the books of the aprocrypha? Do Orthodox Jews read them at all for any reason (literature, maybe) ? What about Macabees? Is that the source for Hanakkuh?

 

 

You can call it that.  If you want to sound Jewy, call it a Tanach (Ta-NACH; ch like bach).  BIble is Latin from biblos, meaning book.  It is a book, so it's not a problem.  But to also sound Jewy ;) don't call it the Old Testament.  That assumes there is a NEW Testament - not so Jewy!  :laugh:

 

We don't read them, we don't reference them, The story of Hanukkah is written in the Books of Macabees and it isn't used to tell the story by Jews.  The most important part isn't referenced in those books (the oil lamp lasting for eight days rather than the one day) rather in the Mishnah and Gemara (our books of Oral Law).  As far as Orthodox Jews reading them, I've never heard of people reading them.  We've got way too many other books to delve into that are more applicable to our needs. :)

[YaelAldrich]

I would be interested in getting a peek into what your Sabbath Day looks like. I know (or think I know) all the food prep for the dinner Friday night is done before sundown---but what about cleaning up the dishes, wiping the table, etc. ?  What do you do besides attending synagogue? What do you do about preparing breakfast and lunch on Saturday, or do you fast?

Oh!  This question isn't easy!  :hat:

 

It  would be far easier to invite to my house starting on Thursday night to see what we do, but I will try to give over a general flavor.  Hang on!

 

So hopefully on Thursday night, I'll have made my menu for Shabbos and maybe make a dessert or two.  Here's a typical menu for my house:

Friday night:

Challah 1-2 loaves

Humus (homemade)

Guacamole

Eggplant salads (1 or 2)

olives and pickles

israeli salad (or another green salad)

sometimes more salads/dips (carrot, red or green cabbage, tofu, parsley)

perhaps a fish dish (gefilte fish, salmon, tuna)

soup (hot in winter, cold in summer)

chicken (or beef)

starch of some kind (potatoes, rice, quinoa, pasta)

two veggies (one green and one another color)

2-4 desserts (cookies, cakes, pies, mousse, fruit)

 

Shabbos Day lunch after services (in Israel 10am-ish, in the rest of the world 12 noon):

challah 

salads above (maybe some different ones to keep things fresh)

cholent (a soup/stew like food; cassoulet is the French version of it!) or lima bean stew in the winter

starch of some kind (potato/noodle/carrot/butternut squash kugel for other families; mine doesn't go for that) 

2 vegetables

2-4 desserts

 

Seudas Shlishis (Third meal)

challah

leftover salads and whatever anyone else wants to eat!

egg salad

tuna salad

 

(everything is homemade)  So you see we don't fast!

 

I'll try to get the challah done on Thursday night but oftentimes that is done on Friday as well.  Mind you any cooking has to be done by sundown Friday.  I can make salad dressings, arrange salads and such but no using an oven,stove, blender, food processor, etc.

 

I start on Friday by working on the desserts (the end is more important than the beginning!), then salads, the last the starches and meats and then steaming veggies for last.  While I or my oldest son is working on this, I have the kids start their erev Shabbos (day before Shabbos, i.e., Friday) chores.- sweeping/mopping, bathrooms, getting chairs and tables, making beds, peeling/prepping veggies, etc along with a "light" school day.  They also have a d'var torah (sermonette about the Torah Portion) to prepare for one of the meals.We often have guests - we used to have large groups 5-10 people, nowadays 2-4 guests usually, although we had a post-wedding party for  32 two weeks ago!

 

Candlelighting comes all too soon (around 4:00pm on the east coast in the winter; where I live 4:45pm.  Summertime, 7-8pm east coast, Indiana 9-9:30pm)!  My candles are prepared for lighting by my husband if he's home.  I light six candles for all the members of my family; some light only two candles.  When we enter Shabbos, we stop actively using electricity, don't drive, use the internet,radio, TV, don't write, erase, sew, pickle, kill, trap, dig, plant, water, harvest,shower/bathe,and a whole bunch of other stuff!  We can wash dishes (no dishwasher; we use cold (or pre-heated hot) water and a special scrub brush and liquid soap), we can clean up messes (no putting liquid on a cloth though; we drizzle water or liquid cleaner on the spot to be cleaned and wipe it down if the cloth/paper doesn't get thoroughly saturated in the process).  If someone messes up their clothes, too bad!  Can't wash them or even daub them with a wet cloth.  Everything we do (or don't do) is based on the lamed-tes melachos (39 categories of forbidden creative work; all of these and their derivations are from the activities that were done to create the Mishkan (portable tent of worship before the Beit HaMikdash was built).  They may seem legalistic to many people, but they are part (perhaps the most important part) of the covenant between G-d and the Jews that has kept us going all these centuries.  A great book to introduce the ideas of the Lamed -Tes melachos is http://www.feldheim.com/the-39-avoth-melacha-of-shabbath-regular-edition.html .  

 

The meal commences after the approximately hour long afternoon and evening services.  There is a lot of singing at that service in most synagogues.  I am happily at home; while I like to sing, I would rather assemble the last salads and put my aching legs up!

:chillpill:   The rest of the family comes home (hopefully with guests) and we commence to seat people and sing Shalom Aleichem to welcome in the Shabbos and the (metaphorical?) angels that come home with the synagogue goers, then Eishes Chayil (the last chapter of Proverbs set to a nice tune

 or our family's new favorite arrangement 

 ) , then my husband blesses the children with the Priestly Blessing that parents give their children.Then he makes kiddush (sanctification over the grape juice/wine), we wash our hands in the ritual manner and then he makes the HaMotzei (bread) blessing.  Then it is time to dig into the first course, then soup, the main course and then dessert.  While we eat we sing Shabbos songs and talk about the Torah portion.  Kids run amok, coming to the table to eat the important parts of the meal (dessert of course).  The meal usually runs about 2-3 hours.  [ETA:  We sing the Blessing after Meals together.]  Then we shoo people to their homes and clean up a bit. I tend to use paper goods as much as possible since my husband and I are tired after a long week and I only have a setting for 12!  

 

I'm stopping here.  Do you want more? 

[YaelAldrich]

There is a Jewish temple/synagogue (not sure which term is correct) in my town that meets in a Baptist church. They have shared the space for many years. It was started as a Baptist church quite a while ago. I imagine this is very uncommon.

 

www.jewishcharlotte.org/IR/community-directory.aspx?id=51928

 

Elise in NC

This is not an Orthodox service, so the traditional laws are not applicable to them. :)

[YaelAldrich]

I would be interested in getting a peek into what your Sabbath Day looks like. I know (or think I know) all the food prep for the dinner Friday night is done before sundown---but what about cleaning up the dishes, wiping the table, etc. ?  What do you do besides attending synagogue? What do you do about preparing breakfast and lunch on Saturday, or do you fast?

Let me answer your direct questions before I head to bed:

 

What else do we do besides shul (synagogue)?  Oh, eat and eat some more.  Read, hang out at the park, Walk the kids to their youth groups, Have mobs of kids roaming the neighborhood dropping in on friends to play games, eat snacks, learn Torah.  take walks, lots of adults have a Shabbos shluf (Shabbos nap), TeA is an extra mitzvah on that day ;) , visit friends to hang out on the day we have free time, go to Torah classes.  The day is always full!

 

Some adults eat before synagogue (cake, coffee/tea, fruit), some don't.  Kids eat.  My kids eat Shabbos cereal - you know the sugary, multi colored junk they don't get other than this day of the week.  Lunch is what I mentioned on my last post.  Some foods are kept on a covered flame or covered heat source (that we don't mess with) from the beginning of Shabbos, like cholent.  Others could be warmed up on a special device called a blech or another one called a plata that is already on.  Some are served room temperature. We don't starve on Shabbos, no way!  You actually may wonder how we Orthodox Jews are not blimp-like creatures from all we eat every week and don't forget there are holidays too almost every month with specialized foods besides these Shabbos foods!  

[Reefgazer]

Far out!  And I have trouble getting a single, simple dinner on the table most Fridays.

Oh!  This question isn't easy!  :hat:

 

It  would be far easier to invite to my house starting on Thursday night to see what we do, but I will try to give over a general flavor.  Hang on!

 

So hopefully on Thursday night, I'll have made my menu for Shabbos and maybe make a dessert or two.  Here's a typical menu for my house:

Friday night:

Challah 1-2 loaves

Humus (homemade)

Guacamole

Eggplant salads (1 or 2)

olives and pickles

israeli salad (or another green salad)

sometimes more salads/dips (carrot, red or green cabbage, tofu, parsley)

perhaps a fish dish (gefilte fish, salmon, tuna)

soup (hot in winter, cold in summer)

chicken (or beef)

starch of some kind (potatoes, rice, quinoa, pasta)

two veggies (one green and one another color)

2-4 desserts (cookies, cakes, pies, mousse, fruit)

 

Shabbos Day lunch after services (in Israel 10am-ish, in the rest of the world 12 noon):

challah 

salads above (maybe some different ones to keep things fresh)

cholent (a soup/stew like food; cassoulet is the French version of it!) or lima bean stew in the winter

starch of some kind (potato/noodle/carrot/butternut squash kugel for other families; mine doesn't go for that) 

2 vegetables

2-4 desserts

 

Seudas Shlishis (Third meal)

challah

leftover salads and whatever anyone else wants to eat!

egg salad

tuna salad

 

(everything is homemade)  So you see we don't fast!

 

I'll try to get the challah done on Thursday night but oftentimes that is done on Friday as well.  Mind you any cooking has to be done by sundown Friday.  I can make salad dressings, arrange salads and such but no using an oven,stove, blender, food processor, etc.

 

I start on Friday by working on the desserts (the end is more important than the beginning!), then salads, the last the starches and meats and then steaming veggies for last.  While I or my oldest son is working on this, I have the kids start their erev Shabbos (day before Shabbos, i.e., Friday) chores.- sweeping/mopping, bathrooms, getting chairs and tables, making beds, peeling/prepping veggies, etc along with a "light" school day.  They also have a d'var torah (sermonette about the Torah Portion) to prepare for one of the meals.We often have guests - we used to have large groups 5-10 people, nowadays 2-4 guests usually, although we had a post-wedding party for  32 two weeks ago!

 

Candlelighting comes all too soon (around 4:00pm on the east coast in the winter; where I live 4:45pm.  Summertime, 7-8pm east coast, Indiana 9-9:30pm)!  My candles are prepared for lighting by my husband if he's home.  I light six candles for all the members of my family; some light only two candles.  When we enter Shabbos, we stop actively using electricity, don't drive, use the internet,radio, TV, don't write, erase, sew, pickle, kill, trap, dig, plant, water, harvest,shower/bathe,and a whole bunch of other stuff!  We can wash dishes (no dishwasher; we use cold (or pre-heated hot) water and a special scrub brush and liquid soap), we can clean up messes (no putting liquid on a cloth though; we drizzle water or liquid cleaner on the spot to be cleaned and wipe it down if the cloth/paper doesn't get thoroughly saturated in the process).  If someone messes up their clothes, too bad!  Can't wash them or even daub them with a wet cloth.  Everything we do (or don't do) is based on the lamed-tes melachos (39 categories of forbidden creative work; all of these and their derivations are from the activities that were done to create the Mishkan (portable tent of worship before the Beit HaMikdash was built).  They may seem legalistic to many people, but they are part (perhaps the most important part) of the covenant between G-d and the Jews that has kept us going all these centuries.  A great book to introduce the ideas of the Lamed -Tes melachos is http://www.feldheim.com/the-39-avoth-melacha-of-shabbath-regular-edition.html .  

 

The meal commences after the approximately hour long afternoon and evening services.  There is a lot of singing at that service in most synagogues.  I am happily at home; while I like to sing, I would rather assemble the last salads and put my aching legs up!

:chillpill:   The rest of the family comes home (hopefully with guests) and we commence to seat people and sing Shalom Aleichem to welcome in the Shabbos and the (metaphorical?) angels that come home with the synagogue goers, then Eishes Chayil (the last chapter of Proverbs set to a nice tune

 or our family's new favorite arrangement 

 ) , then my husband blesses the children with the Priestly Blessing that parents give their children.Then he makes kiddush (sanctification over the grape juice/wine), we wash our hands in the ritual manner and then he makes the HaMotzei (bread) blessing.  Then it is time to dig into the first course, then soup, the main course and then dessert.  While we eat we sing Shabbos songs and talk about the Torah portion.  Kids run amok, coming to the table to eat the important parts of the meal (dessert of course).  The meal usually runs about 2-3 hours.  [ETA:  We sing the Blessing after Meals together.]  Then we shoo people to their homes and clean up a bit. I tend to use paper goods as much as possible since my husband and I are tired after a long week and I only have a setting for 12!  

 

I'm stopping here.  Do you want more? 

 

[speedmom4]

This is not an Orthodox service, so the traditional laws are not applicable to them. :)

That definitely makes sense!

 

I don't know much about Judaism but I read there are Orthodox, Conservative, and Reformed groups within Judaism. Are they like different "denominations" but the same faith? In Protestant Christian circles it isn't uncommon for members of different denominations to feel spiritually linked but separated from Catholic and Orthodox Christians. Is there any similarity within Judaism? I hope my question makes sense! Basically are you all one big happy family or are you distant cousins?

 

Thanks!

 

Elise in NC

[YaelAldrich]

That definitely makes sense!

 

I don't know much about Judaism but I read there are Orthodox, Conservative, and Reformed groups within Judaism. Are they like different "denominations" but the same faith? In Protestant Christian circles it isn't uncommon for members of different denominations to feel spiritually linked but separated from Catholic and Orthodox Christians. Is there any similarity within Judaism? I hope my question makes sense! Basically are you all one big happy family or are you distant cousins?

 

Thanks!

 

Elise in NC

Please see Eliana's post about this topic earlier in the thread http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/513099-ask-an-orthodox-jew/page-2?do=findComment&comment=5624509 .  We are linked, even as we squabble.  Times like right now, when we (the Jewish people) are missing three teenage boys kidnapped (presumably by Hamas), we pray, do mitzvos and hope together.  There are common threads that bind us but they are dwindling.  This seems to be the way of the Jewish people as this isn't the first time it's happened (during the 1st and 2nd Exiles, Spain, Germany and I'm sure there are ones I am forgetting).  Please G-d, the Moshiach should come and bring us back together under the banner of Torah and Avodas HaShem (Torah and worship of G-d).

[Laurie4b]

Thanks for the detailed description of Sabbath!  That's a huge amount of food to cook, but I see the principle is that you prepare 3 meals before Sabbath starts--and you can clean up, but just in a prescribed way. It was interesting to read what you could do, like hang out in the park. (I somehow thought traveling/walking wasn't allowed). Playing games was not allowed in Fundamentalist Christian circles on Sundays, so it's interesting to see that it is allowed in Jewish Orthodox practice. Thanks for the time you took to write all that out!!!

[YaelAldrich]

Thanks for the detailed description of Sabbath!  That's a huge amount of food to cook, but I see the principle is that you prepare 3 meals before Sabbath starts--and you can clean up, but just in a prescribed way. It was interesting to read what you could do, like hang out in the park. (I somehow thought traveling/walking wasn't allowed). Playing games was not allowed in Fundamentalist Christian circles on Sundays, so it's interesting to see that it is allowed in Jewish Orthodox practice. Thanks for the time you took to write all that out!!!

So travelling far(ish) isn't allowed. If you are in a urban/suburban/exurban area, you can walk to your heart's content.  If you are in a rural area (and most Orthodox Jews aren't unless vacationing), there are limits to how far you can walk.  The laws are called T'chum Shabbos.  Here is a good guide to the ideas behind it http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/484235/jewish/How-far-am-I-allowed-to-walk-on-Shabbat.htm .  As far as playing games, some children/families play all sorts of games, some limit all games to younger children, some forbid "ball" games (basketball, football, soccer, baseball, etc) to older children (above 5-9).  We let the kids play ball games when we have lived in an isolated area with few friends to play, but now that we are in a larger community, the older kids above 7 or so are told to play at the park, playgrounds, play tag, etc

[Laurie4b]

So travelling far(ish) isn't allowed. If you are in a urban/suburban/exurban area, you can walk to your heart's content.  If you are in a rural area (and most Orthodox Jews aren't unless vacationing), there are limits to how far you can walk.  The laws are called T'chum Shabbos.  Here is a good guide to the ideas behind it http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/484235/jewish/How-far-am-I-allowed-to-walk-on-Shabbat.htm .  As far as playing games, some children/families play all sorts of games, some limit all games to younger children, some forbid "ball" games (basketball, football, soccer, baseball, etc) to older children (above 5-9).  We let the kids play ball games when we have lived in an isolated area with few friends to play, but now that we are in a larger community, the older kids above 7 or so are told to play at the park, playgrounds, play tag, etc

 

So do you have to live within a prescribed walking distance of your synagogue in order to go? Is that why most Orthodox Jews don't live in the country?  (I read the article, but it lost me a bit!)

[YaelAldrich]

So do you have to live within a prescribed walking distance of your synagogue in order to go? Is that why most Orthodox Jews don't live in the country?  (I read the article, but it lost me a bit!)

 

It's easier to not trek 3-4 miles to shul in the blinding heat or intolerable cold, so we tend to live near "our" shul and a community.  Don't tell anyone, but we don't live in the country because we don't want to deal with the dust (or maybe that's just me!).  Really, there are Jews who want to live (or do live) way out in Hicksville, USA http://www.aish.com/f/hotm/Stuck_in_the_City.html . My DH has stayed with a family living in Whitefish MT.  Survivalist folks.  I grew up somewhat rurally and am happyist in the city!

[eternalsummer]

There is, imo, less painful history between the different branches/systems of Judaism than there is between, for instance, Catholics and Protestants or Sunni and Shia.  Jews have never burned each other at the stake, kwim?  So there is somewhat less acrimony, although having to deal with all types of Jews and their various interests in one state (Israel) seems to have strained relations somewhat.

[lauraw4321]

I have been very interested in learning about Orthodox Judaism when I stumbled across a blog about halachic infertility many many years ago. I have a basic understanding of family purity laws (mikveh, bedikoh). I understand that you do not touch your husband or pass food to him. What about when you have guests for shabbos? I know you wouldn't touch a man, but do you just not pass food to another man? Do men and women eat separately? I just can't imagine how that would work at a big table sharing a meal. Sorry for the random question.

[YaelAldrich]

I have been very interested in learning about Orthodox Judaism when I stumbled across a blog about halachic infertility many many years ago. I have a basic understanding of family purity laws (mikveh, bedikoh). I understand that you do not touch your husband or pass food to him. What about when you have guests for shabbos? I know you wouldn't touch a man, but do you just not pass food to another man? Do men and women eat separately? I just can't imagine how that would work at a big table sharing a meal. Sorry for the random question.

Not a random question, nor a silly one.  The only person I can't touch due to my personal status is my husband.  All other men I don't touch for a different set of reasons (negiah - touching.  Many/most Orthodox Jews don't deliberately touch people of the opposite gender. Some may shake hands or other non-touchy-kissy touching, some do not).  I have been to tables where the genders do eat separately or where the table is one half men and one half women.  I try not to put men and women who are not related next to each other at my table.  A common table setting is man-his wife-other guy's wife- other guy- and so forth.  Children under bar or bas mitzvah don't count so I can stick them in the middle of adults too. Others are comfortable just plopping people any old place.  

 

My husband and I put things on the table and then the other person picks them up.  I also sit at the other end of our table so there are many people to help pass things between he and me.

 

Does that help explain things better?

[lauraw4321]

Yes, now I can picture it. Thank you.

 

Funny ( I hope) story. My FIL teaches Sunday school and taught a series on world religions. He invited a local (this is in the South ) Rabbi to speak. One of his very friendly (very southern) female class members greeted the Rabbi and extended her hand to shake his. He gracefully declined, explaining he doesn't touch women other than his wife. She smiled, and patted his shoulder, put her arm nearly around his shoulders, saying "that's alright! Please come in!"

 

Later it dawned on her what he had said and what she had done and she nearly died of embarrassment. My FIL said he was sure the Rabbi would forgive her.

[Jasperstone]

Hi, again lovely ladies (and men?)

 

For awhile now, I was wondering if or what Jews believed about Lucifer? Is it similar to the Christian (some) belief- that he was an angel, and was thrown out of heaven when he rebelled against God etc.

 

Also, do Jews believe that the fallen angels mingled themselves with mankind, and the offsprings became giants?

 

Thanks!

[YaelAldrich]

Yes, now I can picture it. Thank you.

 

Funny ( I hope) story. My FIL teaches Sunday school and taught a series on world religions. He invited a local (this is in the South ) Rabbi to speak. One of his very friendly (very southern) female class members greeted the Rabbi and extended her hand to shake his. He gracefully declined, explaining he doesn't touch women other than his wife. She smiled, and patted his shoulder, put her arm nearly around his shoulders, saying "that's alright! Please come in!"

 

Later it dawned on her what he had said and what she had done and she nearly died of embarrassment. My FIL said he was sure the Rabbi would forgive her.

It's happened to me.  :lol:

 

At one Passover Seder we hosted, one of our male guests were so thankful that he exuberantly grabbed me and hugged me and gave me a big kiss on the cheek.  It was in a spirit of non-attractive love, just gratitude.  Of course, I didn't flinch or pull away, but I was surprised!  

 

The rabbi, I'm sure, understood that she didn't know and just rolled with the punches!

[Kel & the Kids]

Very interesting thread, I have learned a lot!

 

My dh was in New Jersey recently and was discussing crosswalk options (he's in the crosswalk systems business) with city planners there because the large Jewish population cannot push a crosswalk button on the Sabbath, nor an elevator button (the elevators were pre-programmed to stop and open doors on every floor on the Sabbath).  In discussing sensor crosswalks (where a pad under your feet or a light beam is broken by you walking in front of it and then activates the crosswalk lights) he discovered those wouldn't be suitable because the person was still activating something with their body.  

 

It was all very interesting and we didn't know what to think of it, but this thread has shed some light, he was wondering if doorknobs etc. were an issue.  I also thought it was interesting that the city was so interested in accommodating the Jewish practices. 

 

Thanks to those who are so graciously sharing!

[YaelAldrich]

Very interesting thread, I have learned a lot!

 

My dh was in New Jersey recently and was discussing crosswalk options (he's in the crosswalk systems business) with city planners there because the large Jewish population cannot push a crosswalk button on the Sabbath, nor an elevator button (the elevators were pre-programmed to stop and open doors on every floor on the Sabbath).  In discussing sensor crosswalks (where a pad under your feet or a light beam is broken by you walking in front of it and then activates the crosswalk lights) he discovered those wouldn't be suitable because the person was still activating something with their body.  

 

It was all very interesting and we didn't know what to think of it, but this thread has shed some light, he was wondering if doorknobs etc. were an issue.  I also thought it was interesting that the city was so interested in accommodating the Jewish practices. 

 

Thanks to those who are so graciously sharing!

In going through this thread to clean it up, I see I never answered your question.  My apologies.

 

We do use/touch doorknobs as they have no electric component to them (I hope!)  Our restrictions are around things that use or are triggered by electricity.  Early in the last century, there were microphones that utilized hydraulic principles to enhance/amplify the rabbi's/cantor's voice on Shabbat.  It seems not to have caught on and so they have to be loud in a large synagogue.  Jews keep the ancient laws,  react to current-day innovations by relating the matter to previously reasoned out logic of the past, and anticipate times/situations in which the law cannot be fully kept (for potentially life threatening times) and make creative solutions to minimize the Sabbath desecration.  See the Tzomet Institute for more info:  http://www.zomet.org.il/eng/

[Mrs.Gregg]

So my question or rather ramble of a question is as followed with background.

 

My husband's father was raised in a conservative Jewish family that kept kosher. My fil married a non-Jewish woman and their children (Dh and his brothers) were raised in a secular environment celebrating and honoring some Jewish holidays and cooking family favorite foods. My fil is originally from Poland.

 

I was raised in a evangelical Christian family however my maternal great grandmother was Jewish.  We would like to explore more Jewish traditions and holidays with our children and raise them with some cultural identity. Dh identifies as  a Secular or Humanists Jew. I'm currently reading "What is a Jew?" by Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer.

 

Where would you start? The nearest synagogue is 2 hours away.

[YaelAldrich]

So my question or rather ramble of a question is as followed with background.

 

My husband's father was raised in a conservative Jewish family that kept kosher. My fil married a non-Jewish woman and their children (Dh and his brothers) were raised in a secular environment celebrating and honoring some Jewish holidays and cooking family favorite foods. My fil is originally from Poland.

 

I was raised in a evangelical Christian family however my maternal great grandmother was Jewish.  We would like to explore more Jewish traditions and holidays with our children and raise them with some cultural identity. Dh identifies as  a Secular or Humanists Jew. I'm currently reading "What is a Jew?" by Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer.

 

Where would you start? The nearest synagogue is 2 hours away.

 

Greetings!  You are by far not the only family to have such a interesting Jewish connection.  According to Jewish halacha (the Jewish corpus of laws),  your husband is not Jewish if his mother (or he) did not have a halachic conversion, as Judaism is carried through the maternal line.  However, if you can prove that your maternal great grandmother was truly Jewish, you and your children are halachically Jewish.  I've never read that particular book so I cannot give you any commentary from it, however I did see that the rabbi who wrote it was not an Orthodox Jew, so anything you may read from there may not jibe with the Orthodox Jewish view of halacha.

 

Perhaps there is something closer?  If  you give your location (just city/state is fine), there may be a Chabad House or other synagogue nearer to you than you think.  If that isn't so, then the internet can give you a wealth of information; but little way to see Judaism "live", so to speak.  The differences between what you can absorb by reading (even watching a YouTube video) and participating are enormous.  I would suggest http://www.aish.com or http://www.chabad.org/ as two wonderful jumping off spots.  You can find answers to questions about Jews and Judaism, recipes, videos for your and your children, and so much more.  You should certainly celebrate your family's Jewish heritage and if you choose to do more, both sites can help you figure the best path for your Jewish growth.

 

I wish you all the best of luck in your journey.  Please don't hesitate to continue this conversation or PM me if you have any further questions.