Pansen Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 My just turned 8 year old, 2nd grade child seems to be gifted. He finished TT3 in 4 months, and he's breezing through Beast Academy 3, doing several pages per day without any prodding from me. He loves it! He has always been ahead, but we homeschool, so I have only his brothers with which to compare him. His older brother has fairly severe Dyslexia, and his younger brother is resistant to anything "schooly", but he is starting to read without much instruction. My 8 year old is also athletically gifted, and a level 6 team gymnast. He's blowing me away in BA. He is teaching me new ways of thinking and basically we are learning some concepts together. I have never thought the way he thinks, nor was I ever taught the way he is being taught. I am a little worried we will soon hit a wall, where the pupil surpasses the teacher, and I will be left unable to assist him. What do I do then? I am thankful that he seems to be at, or just above grade level for reading and writing. He has also had very little formal instruction with those areas, because we chose to concentrate on math and science. He is quickly catching on though, and passing up his older brother. Our goal for the rest of this year and next year is to concentrate on writing, while continuing on with math. We plan to use TT4, and possibly TT5, while using BA and maybe something else? I want him to have a very strong foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansen Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 So I guess my question is, what do I do for math? He finished Teaching Textbooks 3, and was actually a bit bored with it. I think TT4 will be too easy for the most part. TT5 might be up his alley. His older brother did TT5 and it seemed to get much more complicated and might challenge my 8 year old. I have 3 kids I teach, and all of them have unique needs which require my attention. My 8 year old much prefers to do most of his work at his own pace and autonomously. So TT has worked for him, with supplementation for real challenge and with me working with him on challenge math. He is very visual and tends to skip details if not right in front of him, and he likes to jump fast toward an answer. This doesn't always lead to the right answer, but it often does and he's rewarded with feeling accomplished. An example of his number sense is when BA3a had skip counting and it showed groups of gumballs in 4s and 6s in a box, he quickly regrouped them in his head, moving one from each group of 6 to each group of 4, and counted by 5s to get the answer in a split second. I was behind him in getting the answer and while it seemed obvious that's what any normal thinking person would do after the fact, I didn't see it as quickly as he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Read The Calculus Trap by Richard Rusczyk. It will greatly help you understand how to challenge your son, rather than just keep him occupied. Not that you are "just keeping him occupied" now, but for future reference with curriculum. A learning styles profile is also immensely helpful when it comes to recognizing strengths and weaknesses in both the child and curriculum. In example: my son is crazy visual so geometry comes very naturally to him. However, very little of the math world up through high school is organized around geometry and visual studies. My son needs to learn how to translate his geometry into algebra, and how to see the algebra as geometry. It isn't really taught anywhere, and more over, it is frustrating at times. But it is an essential communication and learning strategy he needs. So, now we focus on it while he does his AoPS Counting and Probability. Likewise, forcing my son to struggle through AoPS Pre-A and feel "stupid" or frustrated because he did not know the immediate answer was more beneficial than the book learning could have ever been. He now can take a breath, not panic, and progress through the problem. If it doesn't work out, he can stop and assess it, revamp, try again, erase a lot, keep some, and continue. It is the best part of the entire year. If he played MineCraft the whole last three months it wouldn't even matter to me! Isolating those areas are where you will help your son excel. It isn't about curriculum as much as life skills at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansen Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 The Calculus Trap is am interesting article. So basically he is saying that, rather than accelerate through math programs, children should use their strong foundational math skills to challenge themselves through difficult problem solving. That makes sense and that is why we chose to go on to BA rather than TT4. How does one go about getting a learning style profile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratia271 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Read The Calculus Trap by Richard Rusczyk. It will greatly help you understand how to challenge your son, rather than just keep him occupied. Not that you are "just keeping him occupied" now, but for future reference with curriculum. A learning styles profile is also immensely helpful when it comes to recognizing strengths and weaknesses in both the child and curriculum. In example: my son is crazy visual so geometry comes very naturally to him. However, very little of the math world up through high school is organized around geometry and visual studies. My son needs to learn how to translate his geometry into algebra, and how to see the algebra as geometry. It isn't really taught anywhere, and more over, it is frustrating at times. But it is an essential communication and learning strategy he needs. So, now we focus on it while he does his AoPS Counting and Probability. Likewise, forcing my son to struggle through AoPS Pre-A and feel "stupid" or frustrated because he did not know the immediate answer was more beneficial than the book learning could have ever been. He now can take a breath, not panic, and progress through the problem. If it doesn't work out, he can stop and assess it, revamp, try again, erase a lot, keep some, and continue. It is the best part of the entire year. If he played MineCraft the whole last three months it wouldn't even matter to me! Isolating those areas are where you will help your son excel. It isn't about curriculum as much as life skills at this point. :iagree: Learning comes so easily to these kids, and I have discovered that the most important matters for us to address around here have little to do with the book learning aspects. Tackling problems that seem way beyond their "level" and persevering with a good attitude are crucial. These kids can skate through very high levels of material without much effort. In order to develop the life skills requisite to success in the real world, they have to develop a strong work ethic. This just doesn't readily happen with kids for whom learning comes easily. AoPS really addresses this need well. If the classics are of interest, Lukeion offers outstanding courses that are challenging without being pedantic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 The Calculus Trap is am interesting article. So basically he is saying that, rather than accelerate through math programs, children should use their strong foundational math skills to challenge themselves through difficult problem solving. That makes sense and that is why we chose to go on to BA rather than TT4. How does one go about getting a learning style profile? One problem with BA is the new one come out rather slow, although they said they envision they will speed up after 4. One suggestion is to add SM rather using TT. T T is known to be behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansen Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Yeah, he tests into TT5 atm. I don't agree that it's behind, but it continually reviews easier concepts and he gets bored by that after awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Yeah, he tests into TT5 atm. I don't agree that it's behind, but it continually reviews easier concepts and he gets bored by that after awhile. I've not used TT but this bolded indicates to me that it might not be the best program for him and will not give him the strong foundation that you seek (as mentioned in post #1). Perhaps you could try elementary math olympiad problems? Or if he likes math via a computer, the eIMACS Elements of Mathematics series is highly praised on the various forums I read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansen Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Those are great suggestions. He loves math on the computer. Kahn Academy is OK for him, but he gets upset because he has to fill every mastery or practice box *immediately* or he melts down. So not so great for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansen Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 He spends 20 weekday hours in the gym and he has awesome work ethic, but I have to find a way to streamline his schoolwork to fit it in between gym and his other activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansen Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Does Math U See challenge children with good number sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 MUS works very well for some kids, but it is much like Khan in that it merely teaches an algorithm to memorize. It is based in giving the student a process to memorize. Do this, and then get answer. It does not teach why the answer works, other ways to achieve the answer, or the fundamental idea that math is beautiful in how a few simple properties can create an intricacy which is infinite. I know of very few people who use the program in high school for this reason. It just doesn't prepare kids well. It is Get It Done Math. Most gifted kids I have had experience with want to explore at the age of eight. There is a real joy to the discoveries being made. If you want to streamline, perhaps finding ways to maximize time would be better than curriculum. Pick something he wants to study, hit the library for challenging books, and go with something truly hard so the joy is not in the answer but the process. Learning styles profiles can be found by googling. Myers Briggs can also be of benefit. Both helped me understand my son much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I really liked this article I stumbled across from Davidson about the kinds of math problems you should be looking for your elementary student to engage with if you suspect him or her of being a gifted learner. http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10687.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhaMama Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 My 7 yo daughter is also gifted in math. We currently use EPGY (Education Program for Gifted Youth) via Stanford University. All online. The nice thing about it is that it provides parents with detailed progress reports and includes algebra. You pay for either 5 or 10 month enrollment and kids can work at their own pace. Very reasonable too. Imo it's a little dry, but she seems to enjoy it which is all that matters :) We also just ordered Life of Fred books which she LOVES. I really like how it introduces kiddos to advanced terminology and concepts while building a solid foundation. Our biggest struggle is time. She goes to a language immersion school during the day, so all of her math instruction is done via afterschooling (we haven't been able to coordinate challenging math instruction at her school). Also- I would highly recommend (once he gets older) to introduce symbolic logic, mathematical logic (model theory, set theory), and game theory. These are higher level university courses but fantastic at challenging the mind outside of "normal" math classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Just seconding/thirding the opinion to go wide and deep rather than race ahead with a gifted math student. I'm not going to say TT is behind but it is more shallow than a gifted math student will usually enjoy. I would look at Singapore or MEP or Math Mammoth. Zaccaro's Challenge Math book is a good supplement for strong math students. If that is a little too hard yet, Primary Challenge Math is also available. My 5th grader could breeze through the Algebra level TT but instead he slowly goes through AOPS Pre-A and the AOPS math competition books. He also takes fun but challening math classes at a local program for gifted kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansen Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 Thank you. We have Primary Challenge Math, and I'd forgotten about it. I was also looking at Hands-On Equations. Yes, my kid breezed through TT3, and could have handled his brother's TT5, I'm pretty sure. I can't make excuses except to say we are very busy with 3 kids who need attention, and he enjoyed it, until he was bored. He did finish the entire book though and then told me he thinks he doesn't want to do THAT again for awhile. BA though? He can't get enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I agree with the concept of wide and deep rather than JUST fast. However, with kids who learn things so quickly I see no harm in going through the basics quickly. We use MUS as a spine and supplement a lot. Although it isn't nearly as challenging as Beast Academy or AOPs I find that the fact that it teaches multiple ways to do the same problem helps with understanding the concepts. One thing that is good about MUS is that it is very easy to accelerate. Since you need to work schoolwork around gym time it might work well. I'm kind of short on time this morning but if you search posts with my user name and MUS in them you should find details on how we used it to accelerate. I've heard plenty of negative things about MUS but it has worked well for us. In order to keep things interesting and to cover going wide and deep we also use LOF, Singapore CWP, puzzles & games, Beast Academy, etc. Now that we have covered the basics with mus (completing alpha through pre-algebra) we will be slowing down and working more on challenging word problems. To do this we will be using the MUS honors problems from pre-algebra, starting AOPs pre-algebra and LOF pre-alebra and working on math contest problems. Imho this is the correct point to really start going deep and challenging dd with problem solving. We are in no hurry at this point and will probably do most if not all of the AOPs books at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansen Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Unfortunately, my son seems to dislike LoF. I have tried, but he finds it too silly. Still looking at Hands-On Equations. I am thinking more about contest math, and picked up a workbook from Amazon. This one, to start. http://www.amazon.com/Practice-Operations-Competitive-Mathematics-Students/dp/0615834647/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396490052&sr=1-5&keywords=competitive+mathematics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I am thinking more about contest math You might also look at the elementary level of the MOEMS problems (part of Vol 2) or perhaps Lenchner's Creative Problem Solving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansen Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Thanks, I will look into those. We homeschool with a very relaxed approach, so this will be challenging, but the boy loves his math. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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