Dropping R&S 3 and 4 and jumping into 5--advisable? Bad idea?

[Alana in Canada]

I've been agonizing, as some of you know, about my son "being behind" in his grammar. I won't go into the reasons--we hashed that out pretty well in another thread.

 

My son is ten, going on 11 and a rising fifth grader. (eek). We are in R&S 3, Lesson 50.

 

I figure these are my options:

 

Option A:

continue as we are, skip R&S4 and go on to R&S5

 

or

 

Option B:

Continue with R&S3, 4 and then 5 (omitting lessons when too repetitious)

 

or

 

Option C:

dropping the progression and just jumping into R&S 5.

 

or

 

Option D:

Dropping R&S entirely and relying on our Latin studies, CW Aesop and SWR to do our grammar for us. (The simplest but scariest option)

 

 

I am not strong in grammar. At all.

 

Last night, for example, I played a game with my daughter (she has about a quarter of FLL to finish before we switch into R&S3. She's a rising third grader).

 

I was to tell her a sentence and she was to pick out the adjectives. I found myself staying away from sentences like "My car is red" because although I know "red" is an adjective, I didn't know how to explain it. "is red" I know, is something else, isn't it--but I don't know what!

 

So, bottom line, I was kind of hoping to get an education in grammar alongside the kiddos!

 

PS, I made the decision to go with R&S in the first place because it (and one other, though I can't remember what it was called, a secular program written by a hsing Mom, I believe) was simply the most thorough program out there--and not just beause the TWTM recommends it.

 

TIA

[anissarobert]

Hi,

 

"red" is a predicate adjective in your sentence. How do I know that? R & S grammar! :) I just started using R & S two years ago, so I have not gone all the way through, but I am learning so much with my children. My vote goes to Option B, but I would skip do review orally to save time.

[Alana in Canada]

Thanks anissa.

Drat--there's an electrical storm out there, I'm signing off.

[VaKim]

Or you could drop R&S 3 and go ahead and start 4. I wouldn't skip to 5 though, because that is the level where it really steps up and gets noticeably more difficult. We always use R&S a level behind anyway. I think a lot of people do.

[Staci in MO]

We were pretty spotty in R&S 3 and 4 with my oldest. I started him in 5 at the beginning of 5th grade without problems. If I remember correctly, TWTM says that if your child hasn't had grammar, you can start on grade level with R&S up to grade 5, otherwise back up.

 

Is your ds bothered by being behind? One of my dc in particular would be very distressed if the grade level on the book didn't match the grade level he was in. For me, it would be better to use the grade level book and maybe take extra practice on something that he or she finds difficult than back up a whole grade level. Everything is reviewed at the beginning of R&S 5. Even diagramming is reviewed from the beginning.

 

But, if grammar is something he really struggles with, I could see merit in backing up a bit. I would at the very least skip the rest of 3 and start with 4.

[MIch elle]

if you do that I would recommend you make sure you complete each lesson to mastery; memorizing all parts of speech and other important remember boxes (direct object, predicate adj, predicate noun, etc.).

 

If I were you I would use R&S E. a year behind because R&S E. 6 & 7 get much more difficult and are advanced compared to all public schools. Thus you would use R&S E. 4 in grade 5, and R&S E. 6 in grade 7, etc.

 

My oldest used R&S English 3,4,5 on grade level; then R&S E. 6 in grade 7 and R&S E.7 in gr. 8.

[Missouri Mama]

My inclination would be to start level 4, do as much as you can orally with him + some written assignments in order to move through the lessons as quickly as possible without sacrificing true learning. The problem I see with moving too far ahead (such as to level 5) is that you would put yourself at a disadvantage. You're trying to fill in your gaps as well. Personally, I would put less stock on grade levels & more on acquiring the knowledge both of you need to build a firm foundation in English.

[Brindee]

My kids don't have problems with grade levels, cuz we just call them levels. They know we work at whatever level they need to get a good strong base, maybe that's behind, maybe that's "on level", maybe it's ahead. But we don't just go with a grade level so they don't feel bad. That's negating part of the purpose of homeschooling, which is to get'em where they need it and move forward from there.

 

We came upon R&S English 2 years ago. My ds14 is going into 9th grade this year, and is doing R&S Level 7. Since we were able to catch dd11 before she got as far behind (I'm not good with English/Grammar either, and couldn't find anything good to use that I understood well enough to be able to teach them!), she's only one Level behind. She'll be in 6th grade, and will be doing Level 5.

 

I suggest option B. It DOES repeat, so I wouldn't really worry TOO much about finishing Level 3. I'd NOT skip to Level 5 though, it's tougher. We tried that last year with dd (her first year with R&S), and she just wasn't ready for how the concepts were presented yet, so we stuck with Level 4. It has the same content, basically, just at an "easier to understand and build a good base" level! Maybe your ds would pick up on it fine. BUT, maybe he wouldn't, and it would cause frustration, and you'd wonder if you should go with some other curriculum. No, he would just need to start the previous level and move forward. My dd did GREAT in Level 4! It didn't dig quite as deep, and presented things in an easier way that she could grasp.

 

I'm basing what I'm saying on my kids experiences, but also on the fact that R&S IS advanced, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with being one (or more!) LEVEL behind! I wouldn't even call it behind, that's just where they need to start to build their skill level in this subject! I'm convinced that the R&S Level 6 we went through last year with ds is MUCH deeper than I ever even got in Highschool!

 

If you DO decide to go with Level 5 and he begins struggling, really consider going to Level 4 and going through it first, I think if he struggles, he'd do much better in Level 4!

 

Best wishes as you make these choices!

[nutmeg]

If he is "behind", moving him up to a book with the "right" number isn't going to catch him up. I would choose option B, sticking with R&S in order, working more quickly when he gets it, and moving on when ready.

[Susan in TN]

Do you think ds "struggles" with grammar concepts, or is he just behind because you haven't quite gotten to it as much as you'd like?

 

If you think he can catch on to grammar pretty quickly, I don't think it would be too much to go with R&S 5. If you think he might struggle with the concepts more, or need a more "gentle" intro to R&S, I would go with book 4 and move as quickly through it as you can.

 

My ds caught on to grammar very quickly - he's pretty analytical (same with math.) He did books 4 and 5 in one year. My next child, however, struggles with grammatical concepts (she needs lots of review to remember verbs/verb phrases, adjectives, basic diagramming, etc.) She will need to go through the books more slowly and do lots of review and lots of written work.

[Scuff]

Personally, I would put less stock on grade levels & more on acquiring the knowledge both of you need to build a firm foundation in English.

 

I agree. We're a little behind too. Not as much, but we should be starting gr.3 soon and are only a little more than half way donw with grade 2. It was really hard to decide to just plug away. I felt so overwhelmingly behind and like I'd failed this year. But I had to come to the realization that I care more about true learning and building that strong foundation than rushing ahead and possibly missing something. So we'll start 3rd grade a little late and go into the summer next year, too. But it'll be ok. Ds is bright and could do it if we rushed ahead. But I want to make sure he *knows* it, not just covers it. Things will be ok. Hang in there and keep plugging away.

[lvbeingmom]

I would do R&S 4. Do the reviews and memorize! I too am someone who was scared to teach English, it is not my best subject but I am learning right alone with my dd. She is much better at it than I but I am learning. I think memorizing things like the state of being verbs has helped her a lot. It takes us about 15 to 20 minutes, four days a week, but we get through the book each year. DD going into 5th grade will do book 5 but thats because we have worked though each book. Tami

[Quiver0f10]

If he is "behind", moving him up to a book with the "right" number isn't going to catch him up. I would choose option B, sticking with R&S in order, working more quickly when he gets it, and moving on when ready.

 

:iagree: I would just keep plugging away in the books.

[mamato4]

I started my children with First language Lessons for grades 1 and 2. No formal grammar for grade 3. Then used R&S starting fourth grade.

 

I didn't have any problems with them even though grammar was more of an effort for my ds than his sister, (who happens to be younger but can tackle everything at the same level as him except math.) In other words, you can really skip 3 and start with 4. Many of the work is repetitious so you may choose to skip those if you know your child has mastered that concept so as to finish the book faster if he really wants to get to 5 sooner.

 

If you have a separate writing program, you can even skip the lessons that has to do with writing and have less to go through.

 

God Bless,

Anna

[Mosaicmind]

I would not put him in R&S English 5. I have a 10yr almost 11yr ds in the 5th and we started R&S 5 a week ago. He already is lost so we are going to be using English 3, because as I was told here R&S is usually 2yrs ahead. I would just finish 3, then go into 4 and progress into 5, especially if you aren't strong in English yourself.

[newlifemom]

Did you son use FLL as well. Sometimes when my dd would have a problem we would take out FLL and review the definitions and memorizations. I also used this with the girls I tutored who, while being incredibly intelligent had very little grammar background. We spent time every day going over memorization lists from FLL and they went on to do very well, 2 went stright into R&S 6. Having that foundation of memory really is key IMHO to picking up R&S well. HTH

[Alana in Canada]

Excellent food for thought, thank you.

 

I don't actually have R&S 5 on hand (I do have R&S 4)

 

When I brought my son home at the end of Grade one, we did FLL--but only to lesson 100. (And it took us two years!) I wanted him to work independently and get used to a pencil, so we started R&S 3 just last year.

 

He struggles a bit--but I think it's more to do with the spotty nature of my teaching than anything.

 

Perhaps I will try R&S 4 with him. We'll see how that goes and if it isn't well, we'll back up. The LAST thing I want to do is frustrate him. Though, you know, he may be better able to tolerate it than he was when I brought him home. He was so demoralised, and down on himself back then. He has a lot more confidence in himself.

[Cindy in Indy]

I suggest starting fresh with R&S 4. You and he will both learn so much about grammar! I never used R&S 3 with my dc, but started them with R&S4 in 4th grade (except my oldest, who was in 5th grade when I first read SWB's recommendation for R&S). We used all levels through 8, and are doing different things in high school. (Because we feel like we have MASTERED grammar - thanks to R&S!)

 

We skip the review lessons, and can usually finish the book in one year by doing 3 lessons per week. Much of the material can be covered orally, which also saves time and ensures comprehension. Since you are doing CW Aesop, you may also skip the writing lessons (they have an asterisk in the Table of Contents), and can definitely finish the book in one year 3x/week. I don't think you'll miss anything by not completing book 3 with him.

 

I would NOT rely on Latin, SWR, and Aesop to adequately cover English grammar, especially if YOU'RE trying to learn it as well. You'll find R&S to be a great teacher for all of you.:)

 

Blessings,

Cindy