vettechmomof2 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 As of right now I believe we are overdoing our English. My daughter is 14 years old. Doing ~ 9th grade work In her English we are working on Rod and Staff, Literary Lessons for the Lord of the Rings and the extras with it, a separate Lit reading list with written/oral reports and discussions to go along with books and to cover the speech section of our English grade. Our main issues stem from "I believe" the fact that we all enjoy reading. So she is doing reading in History, English, her Electives(which right now is 3) and Latin. It just seems like I am despise saying this....too much reading :( Is there an avenue where I can lighten the load of reading mainly in the writing of the transcripts? Will covering reading in history be enough for lit to go along with the LLFTLOTR? Thanks all, looking for any ideas here! Am I missing something here or overdoing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 As of right now I believe we are overdoing our English. My daughter is 14 years old. Doing ~ 9th grade work In her English we are working on Rod and Staff, Literary Lessons for the Lord of the Rings and the extras with it, a separate Lit reading list with written/oral reports and discussions to go along with books and to cover the speech section of our English grade. Our main issues stem from "I believe" the fact that we all enjoy reading. So she is doing reading in History, English, her Electives(which right now is 3) and Latin. It just seems like I am despise saying this....too much reading :( Is there an avenue where I can lighten the load of reading mainly in the writing of the transcripts? Will covering reading in history be enough for lit to go along with the LLFTLOTR? Thanks all, looking for any ideas here! Am I missing something here or overdoing it? What are the electives, and what type of reading is she doing for them? There are very few classes I can think of that don't involve a fair amount of reading in high school. I'm not sure I understand your question regarding transcripts. Are you just wondering whether you need to include all of the books she is reading for a college transcript? If so, I would say don't worry about that for now. Just keep good records, and decide how to do her transcript later in high school. If you mean an annual transcript for the state, I doubt they want to see every book listed. Ask around. I usually put "x, y, z, and other works." I know nothing much about LLFTLOTR, but it covers several books, right? And maybe samples of other works? That can be enough lit if you are assigning books in history as well, but I'd have an alternative plan in case she gets good and sick of it. I'm pretty sure a year of studies would kill my love for any book series, lol, but everyone is different. If you haven't read the high school section of Well Trained Mind, definitely do so! It will help a lot. Not saying you should follow every jot, but it's a great starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaissance Mom Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Reading textual information in order to learn for history (or any other subject) is not the same as reading imaginative works of literature. "Reading" is not a high school subject, it is a skill to be used to learn and to complete course work. Typically literature is defined as imaginative works in prose or poetry in which the author or poet is attempting to convey meaning through his or her chosen formal elements and by using various artistic devices. The Three Little Pigs tale is a form of literature. An expository book or chapter or report on pigs is not. If you are reading the LOTR books and discussing (or writing about) them, that is lit. If the rest of her reading list contains novels, poems, short stories, or the like, that would be lit/English, too. I would count a paper my dd wrote about history, for example, both toward history and toward English. But the reading she did to research her history topic would only count toward history. Hope I haven't misunderstood your question! Feel free to further clarify what you are asking if I/we have missed the boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 IME, speech is an elective, not part of the English course. The R&S English, plus the Lord of the Rings, seems like a pretty good English course. I think all the extra literature plus oral reports and whatnot, might be too much. Oral reports for history would be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Totally agree with Renaissance Mom's explanation of the types of reading done in high school, and that not all reading is "equal". I would just add to her distinction: because the History reading is an attempt to absorb facts and information, usually reading fewer pages takes longer than reading classic literature (novels, short stories). And historical fiction is even lighter and faster to read. Poetry, while definitely in the Literature camp, also takes longer to read and absorb, because it is SO compressed and all about metaphor that it requires a LOT of thinking and re-reading. I don't think it is uncommon to expect about 4-5 hours of reading per week PER class for reading-intensive courses such as Literature, History, Humanities, and Social Studies. Audio books might help relieve the reading crunch, and being able to listen while driving around town, in the evenings, etc. Also, together reading aloud / discussing in the moment some of the Literature might speed things up, give you some variety to the day, and not be so much "solo reading." (DSs and I did LLftLotR that way, and it was extremely enjoyable, and we had some much deeper thinking, discussions and analysis of the trilogy than they would have had if they had just been assigned to go read the chapters and answer the questions on their own... In case it is of ANY help, we had a kind of a similar set-up for our 2 DSs' 9th grades (they did different writing programs to fit their needs). Here's how *I* counted it. You'll have to decide what works for you! :) English = 1 credit about 1500 pages of reading; we spent about 6 hours/week, which was definitely 1 credit for us Literature = Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings Writing = Put That in Writing 1 / Jump In Grammar = grammar review a few times a week through The Chortling Bard Spelling/Vocabulary = individualized Elective: The Great Books: Ancient Classics = 1 credit probably a good 1800 pages of reading, and we spent a solid 4-5 hours a week, which = 1 credit for us read / discussed / wrote about -- - Gilgamesh (adaptation by Westwood) - The Iliad (full translation by Fagles) - The Odyssey (full translation by Fagles) - various Greek myths (various authors) - Antigone (full translation by Fitzgerald) - Oedipus the King (full translation by Fitzgerald) - The Aeneid (adaptation by Church) - Till We Have Faces (by Lewis) Ancient World History = 1 credit solid 5+ hours a week, which = 1 credit for us - spine text: 200 pages in Spielvogel's The Human Odyssey textbook - non-fiction: ?? pages; numerous excerpts and other written resources - historical fiction: 6 works (one every 6 weeks) -- lite reading; each book must have been at least 200 pages - watched documentaries - 1 3-page research paper per semester (counted towards both history AND writing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettechmomof2 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 IME, speech is an elective, not part of the English course. The R&S English, plus the Lord of the Rings, seems like a pretty good English course. I think all the extra literature plus oral reports and whatnot, might be too much. Oral reports for history would be fine. In PA Speech is part of the English credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettechmomof2 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 I believe I confused a few so here is an example of my daughters time on a daily basis. I "feel" she is doing too much. Since we cannot cut out any of the classes in their entirety I was looking to drop what I feel is an extra component. She is not in the car enough to listen to audios and cannot at home anymore. She has no trouble reading and retaining the information but is spending AND needing 9 hours to complete everything and then sometimes it is still not enough. She works 6 days a week and sometimes on Sat. as well to make up something. She is a hard worker with a strong understanding of her work. She is not having difficulty but I want her to enjoy her life as a teenager and not just work all of the time. I believe Renaissance Mom got it and is telling me the info I was hoping for :) Her reading the class texts is not counted as part of her lit at all but her 2 separate lit courses and reading separate works for history and her electives is: English -R & S -LLFTLOTR -Lit list now from these she will do white ups, papers, essays, poetry or speeches. Sometimes powerpoints, brochures,etc Math -Jacobs Algebra Science -Miller/Levine Bio + labs and write ups from labs, vocab lists and creative writing with the vocab lists. sometimes pp, brochures,etc History -American History write ups, reports, speeches, etc. -Lit reading from the time period. Poetry, Great works,etc Gov. -American Gov. mainly essays and speeches. reading of documents Latin -Lukeion -reading about roman history outside of class for studying for NLE Art -Fine Arts Music -History of Archeology Class -elective online and personal reading from the textbook. outside camp over the summer Equine studies/Animal Husbandry/Nutrition and Physiology Course -elective online and reading college level texts, testing, papers, brochures, pp ,etc from me Excavating English and reading about history of languages Karate(speeches) Dog training(reports & speeches) 4-H (reports, book work and speeches) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettechmomof2 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 In PA Speech is part of the English credit. http://home.comcast.net/~askpauline/hs/homeschoolsubjects.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I believe I confused a few so here is an example of my daughters time on a daily basis. I "feel" she is doing too much. Since we cannot cut out any of the classes in their entirety I was looking to drop what I feel is an extra component. She is not in the car enough to listen to audios and cannot at home anymore. She has no trouble reading and retaining the information but is spending AND needing 9 hours to complete everything and then sometimes it is still not enough. She works 6 days a week and sometimes on Sat. as well to make up something. She is a hard worker with a strong understanding of her work. She is not having difficulty but I want her to enjoy her life as a teenager and not just work all of the time. I believe Renaissance Mom got it and is telling me the info I was hoping for :) Her reading the class texts is not counted as part of her lit at all but her 2 separate lit courses and reading separate works for history and her electives is: English -R & S -LLFTLOTR -Lit list now from these she will do white ups, papers, essays, poetry or speeches. Sometimes powerpoints, brochures,etc Math -Jacobs Algebra Science -Miller/Levine Bio + labs and write ups from labs, vocab lists and creative writing with the vocab lists. sometimes pp, brochures,etc History -American History write ups, reports, speeches, etc. -Lit reading from the time period. Poetry, Great works,etc Gov. -American Gov. mainly essays and speeches. reading of documents Latin -Lukeion -reading about roman history outside of class for studying for NLE Art -Fine Arts Music -History of Archeology Class -elective online and personal reading from the textbook. outside camp over the summer Equine studies/Animal Husbandry/Nutrition and Physiology Course -elective online and reading college level texts, testing, papers, brochures, pp ,etc from me Excavating English and reading about history of languages Karate(speeches) Dog training(reports & speeches) 4-H (reports, book work and speeches) Well, she has a lot of classes going on here, so she's going to have a lot of work! I'm seeing 11 classes. Which are full and which are half-credits? Even if several are half-credits, that's about 8 credits, and yes, that is probably going to be 9+ hours of work for most students. Why can't any classes be cut? Even a very ambitious 9th grade schedule does not need 8 to 11 credits. Her core classes look pretty typical and straightforward, but she has a truckload of electives that don't need to be crammed into freshman year. From this list, this is what I would consider cutting at first glance: Science: I can't even imagine why she would do creative writing from biology vocabulary lists! Just say no, lol. Axe the brochures and power points as well. It looks like her extras include a fair amount of writing, so you could be on the light side for that. In LOTR, I would select from the most straightforward writing assignments; ditch the power point and brochures. Same for equine studies - ditch the power point and brochures. The Well Trained Mind high school section is very helpful for figuring out 'how much is enough' reading and writing (of course it will vary by student). I see a few things that can be pared down, but the reality is that taking 11 classes is going to be a LOT of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 In PA Speech is part of the English credit. Huh. Well, there you go. It was not in any of the states I lived in, but if it is where the OP lives, then it is. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I "feel" she is doing too much... ... we cannot cut out any of the classes in their entirety... ... She ... is spending AND needing 9 hours to complete everything and then sometimes it is still not enough. She works 6 days a week and sometimes on Sat. as well to make up something. You've listed what looks like 10 classes to me, with at least half as full credits, and maybe all are full credits?!? full credits 1. English 2. Math (Algebra) 3. Science (Biology) 4. Foreign Language (Latin) 5. History (American) unclear if these are full or half credits: 6. Government 7. Fine Arts: Art 8. Fine Arts: History of Music 9. Elective: Archeology 10. Elective: Equine Studies Extracurriculars: 1. Karate 2. Dog Training 3. 4-H Personal Interest: - Languages (Excavating English, etc.) If each is a full credit, then, yes, a student would be working 10 hours a day to complete all of that (roughly, 1 credit = 1 hour/day, 5 days/week). Plus time for 3 extracurricular activities outside the home, which would mean spreading school out into a 6th day of the week. Even if half of those credits are only 0.5 credits, your student would be working a good 7.5 hours a day, plus the 3 extracurriculars. Yes, I'd say you have way overloaded your student -- and she's contributed, with the choices to pursue so many time-intensive electives, personal interest area, and extracurriculars. ;) (I mean that gently and with a half-joking smile. :) ) I'd say you and DD need to sit down and do some prioritizing of what NEEDS to happen, what can be cut / dropped / postponed, and how you can streamline. Things like: 1. drop R&S -- by 9th grade, most students have covered as much grammar as needed, and you certainly don't need any more writing at this point 2. drop most of the writing, presentations, pp for science 3. cut the Lit readings for either Latin or History 4. double-dip: any writing for History, Literature, Gov. should be plenty of writing to ALSO count towards writing for the English credit 5. double dip: all those speeches and presentations and pp for various classes and the extracurriculars can count for your required speech credit 6. drop/postpone some of the credits to another year to get your schedule to a manageable level: Gov, one of the Fine Arts, and one of the electives -- or one of the Fine Arts and both electives -- etc.) -- I know you said you "can't cut any of the classes in their entirety", and I know a lot of people thrive on high level of activity, BUT... this list of classes and activities is the fast track to burn-out on schooling for your student, before she even gets to college. JMO! Gently, the reality is that a certain amount of work/time/material is needed to make a true credit. Clearly, it is not working right now the way it stands -- esp. as there is still another 2/3ds or so of a semester to go... If you decide to hang on to all 10 of these classes by trying to cut back, then you need to be willing to cut back how much credit you award for them. Some things, yes, can be cut and still be a full credit (all the writing and presentations in the Biology). In other places, though, cutting will reduce the amount of credit that can be legitimately awarded. What is the priority for your family: 10 partial credits? Or 6 solid full credits and 1, MAYBE 2, half solid credits? Only you and DD can decide that... Wishing the BEST in figuring out how to bring your schedule and lives back into balance! Warmest regards, Lori D. ETA -- Cross-posted with katilac. Didn't realize we were on the same wavelength! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettechmomof2 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Thanks all! Appreciate the ideas, now to discuss with my daughter :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Thanks all! Appreciate the ideas, now to discuss with my daughter :) And please post again to this thread later, what the decisions were, and how it's working! It's a help to others coming after you, but also, we care about you and your DD. :) All the best! Warmest regards, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dina in Oklahoma Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 :lurk5: :lurk5: :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaissance Mom Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 You received some very concrete suggestions here. I just want to encourage you in the fact that both you and your dd are so enthusiastic about learning. One of my goals for all of my kids is that they cultivate a lifelong love of learning and will continue to pursue that long after they leave any school settings. Your dd is quite obviously the poster child for having a wide range of interests and being willing to put in the time necessary to cultivate those interests. That's awesome! Just remember that she not only has the next three years of high school, plus perhaps college to tackle these subjects, but she has the rest of her life, too. The things I am reading about and enjoying now at age 53 are still as rewarding and fascinating as the things I was interested in at age 14. I offer this as encouragement for you as mom and "moderator" to help her rein herself in. BTW, I had a very tough time finding balance for my oldest in her 9th grade year, too. I felt like she was buried, and I was confused and frustrated. I ended up cutting out chunks of material we had planned to cover within the various subjects rather than cut subjects. That worked for us. There is also a huge increase in a high schooler's capacity for work from year to year. I thought my dd's growth in that area from the middle of ninth grade to the beginning of 10th grade was phenomenal. She's thriving with a much heavier course load now than she did at this time last year. Pat yourself on your back for being a good mama to your dd and caring so much about guiding her through this. Oh, one more thing, I live in PA, too. The speech requirement is not tied to a specific number of hours or speeches. As long as it is taught and used somehow, it suffices. My dd actually fulfills that requirement via her extracurricular volunteering as a historical interpreter at a living history museum. She has to understand her topic and be able to speak about it to visitors while demonstrating whatever she is in charge of that day. She doesn't have to actually write a speech, nor do I have to document it as such. We just let her evaluator know that she does this and the evaluator writes it up in her written evaluation for the school district. Done. :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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