Feedback on this 11th grade plan? ChemAdvantage content...

[Matryoshka]

Starting to firm up dd's possible 11th grade return to homeschooling.

 

While she had said that she was 100% against AP Chem next year (took Honors Chem this year), she seems to have softened a lot now that her school recommended her for AP Chem there next year...  nothing like a little confidence boost! So, does the following plan seem okay?  Will she be able to handle the four APs?  The APs have * next to them...

 

English: Comp (probably honors) @ CC 1st semester; 2nd semester - self-designed? elective @ cc??

 

Math: Foerster's PreCalc, possibly w/ Math without Borders

 

*Science: AP Chem w/ ChemAdvantage/PAHsers  (would it be possible to share labs with a friend who's taking the class at the same time?  Could they share a lab kit?  How often do they have to do the labs?)

 

*Spanish: AP Spanish w/ PAHsers/Ray Leven (anyone have experience w/ how much workload this is?)

 

*History: FundaFunda APUSH curriculum (we could follow it and decide whether to take the AP exam at the end of the year...)

 

*Tech: Computer Science AP w/ the MOOC someone linked

 

German: @ Sat. School

 

That makes two self-paced study-at-home classes (w/ video instruction), three online AP classes, an in-person 2x/week CC class and the 1x/week German class.  She'd probably also meet her friend weekly or biweekly to do the Chem labs, and have 1x/week coop, which would be mostly for social/enrichment.  Trying to think of the in/out balance... want to make sure she's neither cooped up nor run ragged...

 

For English, I'm thinking of having her take AP Language senior year, as that would be too many APs this year otherwise!!

 

Does this seem doable and balanced??

[swimmermom3]

How many AP classes is she currently taking and is she comfortably stretched?

[Matryoshka]

Right now she isn't taking any, but she's got honors across the board.  She'll also be taking the AP German exam this year - she might retake next year if she doesn't get a high score, as she's going to spend the summer in Germany.  But because next year is test-heavy, I thought she should get it out of the way if she could.

 

Right now she's taking:

 

English Honors

Spanish 4 Honors

Algebra II Honors

Chemistry Honors

US History 1 Honors (our high school has split up US History into a 2-year sequence)

Java Programming Honors

and a 1/2 year 3D Animiation & Design elective

 

She's making good grades across the board, and the Programming class has been easy for her (so I'm hoping the AP CS next year will not be a particularly heavy class for her, in spite of the AP designation).

[Matryoshka]

How many AP classes is she currently taking and is she comfortably stretched?

 

I also thought I should mention that the way the class sequence at her school is set up, it's almost impossible to take APs before junior year.  They do not offer the ones I often see freshmen/sophomores taking (AP Human Geography or AP European History).  They also don't offer AP English Language, just Lit.

 

She also won't have a sport taking up her time, although I'm hoping very much they would allow her to continue with Robotics and the A capella singing group she's in.

 

[Gwen in VA]

That sounds like a really heavy workload to me. 4 AP's is intense, and doing that on top of a CC class on top of the German on top of math is a LOT! AP's are supposed to take 1-2 hours per day, and certainly my kids have found that to be true (with the exception of AP US Gov't). So you are talking 4 - 8 hours per day plus math, English, and German. Wow.....

 

During junior year there are a lot of tests to take -- the SAT and/or the ACT in addition to possibly doing some SAT-2's. Will she have time to study for those on top of her classwork? (My kids found studying for the SAT to take ~30 min per day for several months -- which does eat into other things.)

 

Will she have time to adequately study for four AP exams? Studying is time-intensive. I'd prefer my kids to take fewer exams and get 5's rather than taking more but not getting top scores.

 

Do you have a bail-out plan -- a "this is the course to go if you are overwhelmed by October" plan? Is she okay with the idea of dropping a class, or would she rather go crazy than drop? If she is a perfectionist who can't back off, I'd be cautious of overbooking her. Even if right now she is comfortable with the plan, the reality next fall may be different. Classes can pile up work at odd times, with the result that even if the load is bearable on average, particular weeks can turn into a nightmare.

 

Again -- you know your kid. Some kids thrive on stress. Some kids just want to do it all. And some kids learn almost without effort so what might be overwhelming to even a strong student wouldn't faze them at all.

 

But do leave some margin in her life -- time for her to develop new interests, time to hang out with friends, time to develop a skill, and time to do family things. BTW, colleges care a LOT about extra-curriculars -- so even if she is interested in a highly academic college, the EC's are important.

[Luckymama]

Matryoshka, ds did four APs his junior year (the earliest possible at his school)-----Calc AB, Physics C, APUSH (required for students at his "phase"), and English Language---in addition to Latin 3 and a required ethics class (writing-intensive).

 

He basically came home from marching band/jazz band/concert band (depending in the season), ate dinner with us, and hit the books. Thursdays were tricky because he had Boy Scouts from 7-9.

 

The schedule was his decision. He scored 5s :D He also was "one and done" with the SAT after working through the Blue Book following the Xiggi method (College Confidential poster).

 

Ds could handle that schedule. Older dd, not so much! She took five APs total, which was just right for her :)

[Matryoshka]

That sounds like a really heavy workload to me. 4 AP's is intense, and doing that on top of a CC class on top of the German on top of math is a LOT! AP's are supposed to take 1-2 hours per day, and certainly my kids have found that to be true (with the exception of AP US Gov't). So you are talking 4 - 8 hours per day plus math, English, and German. Wow.....

 

During junior year there are a lot of tests to take -- the SAT and/or the ACT in addition to possibly doing some SAT-2's. Will she have time to study for those on top of her classwork? (My kids found studying for the SAT to take ~30 min per day for several months -- which does eat into other things.)

 

Will she have time to adequately study for four AP exams? Studying is time-intensive. I'd prefer my kids to take fewer exams and get 5's rather than taking more but not getting top scores.

 

Do you have a bail-out plan -- a "this is the course to go if you are overwhelmed by October" plan? Is she okay with the idea of dropping a class, or would she rather go crazy than drop? If she is a perfectionist who can't back off, I'd be cautious of overbooking her. Even if right now she is comfortable with the plan, the reality next fall may be different. Classes can pile up work at odd times, with the result that even if the load is bearable on average, particular weeks can turn into a nightmare.

 

Again -- you know your kid. Some kids thrive on stress. Some kids just want to do it all. And some kids learn almost without effort so what might be overwhelming to even a strong student wouldn't faze them at all.

 

But do leave some margin in her life -- time for her to develop new interests, time to hang out with friends, time to develop a skill, and time to do family things. BTW, colleges care a LOT about extra-curriculars -- so even if she is interested in a highly academic college, the EC's are important.

 

Yes, that's all been going through my head.  The US History course doesn't have to be AP, since it's just study at home.  We could just use the syllabus as a guideline, do as much as she can do, and call it good.  At any rate, she could decide what she wants to do with that over the course of the year.

 

I don't think the AP Spanish or CS will be too tough on her.  The CS course should actually be fairly easy for her (and I've heard it's one of the easier APs in general); she's had two years of programming in school, including a year of Java, and the teacher hasn't bothered actually teaching anyone (gives them assignments but actively refuses to help in any way, not even to clarify instructions), and dd's got one of the highest grades in the class.  The AP Spanish; she's had a really rigorous course this year in high school and should be well prepared.  From the website reviews, it doesn't sound like the course is too heavy as long as a kid has a strong foundation.

 

It's the AP Chem that will be a huge workload.  That's the one I worry about a bit, but I do hear really great things about the class in general.  If she stayed in school, she'd probably take Honors Physics instead, but the school doesn't have very good Chem teachers, imho.  I know the Chem labs would get done, because she'd have a partner (they'd meet weekly or biweekly).  Not sure if labs would actually get done for another course...

 

It's hard because if she comes home, seems like the outsourced classes are either CC or AP, or fluff (ie coop).  There's no Spanish 5 Honors, for example. AP CS is also the 'next' thing in the progression she's on - it's not like there's a more relaxed option.

 

I could self-design an English course for her instead of the CC class, but I thought it would be good for her to have at least one in-person class, as otherwise it's all at home. :(  It's also only a semester, so I was thinking it would be out of the way by the time the testing crunch hit.  For the spring, she could just read a few good books, do WWtW (at a slow pace) and 4Practice with her sister, neither of which would take much time, and call it good....  She has a friend who took that Comp class at the CC last fall; I'll ask if it was overly time-consuming.  It could be there might be some kind of Lit class at the coop that I could extend at home to make a full English credit?  But she doesn't like Lit Analysis, so I was thinking the Comp class would be a nice break from that...?

 

She is not a crazed perfectionist (that's my other dd).  She can work well under pressure and is a steady worker, but she's not the type that thrives on stress.  Right now she has an hour in class, plus an hour of homework for many of her classes.  It's get up at 6, go to school, come home, do homework, rinse and repeat.   She's up doing homework late most nights.  If she stayed in school, there would be no way she'd have time to study much for the SATs at all... think that's why I hadn't figured that in...

 

Oh, and extracurriculars.  It is what it is.  She likes the Robotics and the singing, hopefully those can stay.  She has a job on Sunday afternoons. She rejects all forms of sport.  I'm not sure what else to suggest to her.  She will have a much more open schedule senior year, hopefully she can design herself some cool electives, or find an internship, or volunteer doing something or other.

[Matryoshka]

Matryoshka, ds did four APs his junior year (the earliest possible at his school)-----Calc AB, Physics C, APUSH (required for students at his "phase"), and English Language---in addition to Latin 3 and a required ethics class (writing-intensive).

 

Okay, this makes me feel better.  Those are four very intense APs.  I think the Chem and the APUSH (if she decides to go for the whole enchilada) are the only two I think would be really intense for her.

 

The schedule was his decision. He scored 5s :D He also was "one and done" with the SAT after working through the Blue Book following the Xiggi method (College Confidential poster).

 

Yay.  And what is this magical Xiggi method?  Link?? :D

 

Ds could handle that schedule. Older dd, not so much! She took five APs total, which was just right for her :)

 

Other dd will only be taking two APs next year (at school) - Spanish and Bio.  She could possibly take the APUSH, but there it's all or nothing, no backing off if it's too intense.  And she's my perfectionist.

 

She'll also only take one senior year (English), as her math level won't be up to Calc or Physics AP level (unless they start offering the Alg-based Physics AP).  But now she says she's coming home senior year, so we'll see what happens...

[Musicmom]

I agree with everything Gwen said above.  This does seem like a very heavy load, and junior year is a big testing year.  Our experience has been that the SAT and ACT each require very significant prep time, and the AP tests also require significant prep, so she will need extra time for those.

 

My dd took the AP Chem through PA Homeschoolers (same class as through ChemAdvantage) in her junior year.  It is a wonderful class, the instructor is outstanding, and dd absolutely loved it.  I highly recommend it.  BUT, it is an intense class and has a high workload. My dd often spent 3 hours or more every day on it.  A lot of time is spent participating online in discussions, asking questions and getting other students' or the instructor's help as well as helping out other students with their questions.  Online participation, while not graded, is a very important part of the class and is kept track of.  It is particularly important if you later would like a letter of recommendation from the instructor!  There will be crunch weeks where difficult assignments are due, a lab is due, or there is a big test.  Prep for the AP test in the spring is also very thorough and therefore very intense with this class.  Does your dd find chemistry easy to grasp and is she quick at it?  If so, then she might be able to get by with a couple hours a day.  But if she needs to work at it, as my dd does (even though she's a science girl) then it may take her considerably more time.

 

I'd be hesitant about teaming up with a friend for labs and sharing a lab kit...  Our experience was that the labs can be quite time consuming, and can involve questions and snags that the students often work through with each other and/or the instructor online.  There are deadlines and some of the lab reports need to be scanned and turned in via PDF.  The logistics of coordinating two students' schedules and meeting for a lab adds extra complexity and a LOT of extra time--vs. being able to adjust your own schedule and run with a lab when you need to.  I remember a number of times that dd started a lab right after dinner and worked past midnight or 1:00 am.

 

I don't know what the workload of the AP Spanish would be (you might check the student reviews on the website to get a feel for that--it's often commented on), but our experience with PA Homeschoolers classes is that they can be quite time intensive.  Dd took AP Statistics in senior year, and it also took many hours each week.  PA Homeschoolers does warn that AP classes can be intense and they recommend starting with just one.  My dd did only one AP class per year, and it was her only outside class.  That was plenty of stress for us (she also had some time-intensive extra-curriculars going as well--music and competitions.)  However, I know of a homeschooled boy in our town who did all his classes (something like 5) through PA Homeschoolers his senior year.  His mom said he was VERY challenged and it was just crazy intense, but he survived (and went on to an Ivy League college.)  He's a high capacity kid.  

 

Has your dd taken a class at the CC before?  Do you know anyone who's taken the the comp class you're considering and could give you a feel for the workload there?  We never did CC classes, but the experience of friends has been that for a first-timer, a CC class can be quite time consuming also.

 

One question you might think about is what is her current workload with the honors classes and how is she doing with that?  Are her current honors classes requiring 1.5-2 hours of homework a night, and more over weekends?  Does she balance that well? Is she a high capacity student and a very fast, focused worker?  If so, she might be able to manage this... but I would definitely recommend you have a fall back plan in place in case it proves to be overwhelming!

 

Do keep her Robotics and singing extra-curriculars going if at all possible--those will be very important for college admissions (the boy I mentioned above is also a star tennis player)--and try to keep a little margin in her life too if at all possible.  My dd had NO margin her junior and senior years and she was very burned out by the end.  The social enrichment is important too--and one of the reasons my dd had so much going on (only one social outlet per week--so we just couldn't cut that).  It's a very tough balance to fit everything, and often something has to give.  In our case it was margin and a couple of our home courses (which had to be scaled way back.)

 

Well, I hope this is helpful and gives you some more input to the process.  You know your child best and I'm sure you'll come up with the best plan for her given her needs and abilities!  Good luck!

[mjbucks1]

I thought I would add my 2 cents!  Ds took AP Comp Sci last year aftering taking a programing class in Java the ear before.  He actually thought he would have been able to take the AP exam after taking the initial Java course.  I don't think preparing for the AP exam will be too difficult.

 

Ds also took AP Chem through PA Homeschoolers (same as ChemAdvantage).  It was a wonderful class with a lot of work. I actually think it might be beneficial to team up with another student for labs.  I think there were only 13 labs total, so you would not even ave to meet once/week for labs.  What you would need to do is to coordinate when the labs would get done.  Ds did not have any problems with the labs, but some do take a while (leave at least two hours to complete the actual lab.  Write-ups can be done at home). 

 

I think 4 AP classes and cc English would be a lot for my ds.  AP Comp Sci should be easy, though, and you can decide to not make US History AP if needed.  The AP exams do require a good bit of studying.  I also had my ds take the Chem SAT II last spring, which adds another test into the mix (he actually ended up taking 2 AP exams, the Chem SAT II, and the ACT and scored very well on all of them).  You know your dd the best.  If she feels she can do all of this without being too stressed out, then let her give it a try.  You do have some flexibility to lighten the load if need be. 

[Matryoshka]

I thought I would add my 2 cents!  Ds took AP Comp Sci last year aftering taking a programing class in Java the ear before.  He actually thought he would have been able to take the AP exam after taking the initial Java course.  I don't think preparing for the AP exam will be too difficult.

 

Yes, this exactly.  If this were her first programming class, or even her first experience with Java, I'd feel differently.  She also has dh to help if she ever gets stuck.

 

Ds also took AP Chem through PA Homeschoolers (same as ChemAdvantage).  It was a wonderful class with a lot of work. I actually think it might be beneficial to team up with another student for labs.  I think there were only 13 labs total, so you would not even ave to meet once/week for labs.  What you would need to do is to coordinate when the labs would get done.  Ds did not have any problems with the labs, but some do take a while (leave at least two hours to complete the actual lab.  Write-ups can be done at home). 

 

I know someone else thought it might be a detriment, but this is how I'm feeling.  I say I know they'll get done this way because the partner would be a good friend's son, extremely bright, who has also taken Chem before.  We're also planning on running a Physics lab class for our 8th graders at her house biweekly, so we figured my older dd and her son could do their labs at the same time.  No special coordination needed - every other week, get together, do labs. For me at least, this has always been the way to make sure the hands-on science gets done - have outside accountability, even if it's just meeting up with someone else at a set time. At school they always have lab partners, so she's used to working with someone else.  They can do the hands-on stuff together and the write-ups at home, just like they do in school as well. 

 

I'm glad to hear there are only 13 labs, that means bi-weekly should be plenty.  Do the labs have to be done at a specific time in the curriculum, or is there some leeway?  Meaning, would bi-weekly work, or would it sometimes have to be within a week or three weeks later?  It will definitely help if it could be consistently bi-weekly when we're there anyway...

 

I do wonder about having her take an Honors-level Physics instead (like she would have done at school), but where?  Do the online classes offer real labs, or just virtual ones?

 

 

I think 4 AP classes and cc English would be a lot for my ds.  AP Comp Sci should be easy, though, and you can decide to not make US History AP if needed.  The AP exams do require a good bit of studying.  I also had my ds take the Chem SAT II last spring, which adds another test into the mix (he actually ended up taking 2 AP exams, the Chem SAT II, and the ACT and scored very well on all of them).  You know your dd the best.  If she feels she can do all of this without being too stressed out, then let her give it a try.  You do have some flexibility to lighten the load if need be.

 

Yeah, I really think the Comp Sci and the Spanish shouldn't give her too much trouble.  The CC English is a question mark.  Doesn't anyone else think, though, that it would be good to get it out of the way in the fall?  If she took an online class, it would be all year, and the crunch would be at testing time rather than in December.  And it would be one more thing online/at home.  I did think it would be good to get out of the house sometimes...

 

For tests, she'd take the PSAT and probably the German SAT2 w/ listening in the fall, then the SAT and the APs in the spring.  Again, we could always downgrade the APUSH to a SAT2 in US History, no?  And possibly double-up w/ SAT2 Chem - I hear that can be a good idea, then you kind of study for two tests at once.

 

The ACT is fairly unheard of here, but I have thought about having her take it too (hear about it so much on these boards!!)  Do they offer it a little later after the APs are over?  The AP tests are in May, no?

 

[kiana]

You can always just take the apush without studying and see how she does, if it's in your finances.

 

A friend of mine, in HS, took a week to self-study economics and human geography and passed the tests -- now he was a generally well-informed type anyway, and great at taking tests, but still. His idea was that he had nothing to lose but some cash, and everything to gain.

[mjbucks1]

Do the labs have to be done at a specific time in the curriculum, or is there some leeway?

 

The labs are scheduled during specific weeks of the course, but you will now about them in advance.  I think there was at least one time when there were two labs due, but this was rare.  I think the labs were due towards the end of the week, but neither my son or I can remember for sure.

 

I do wonder about having her take an Honors-level Physics instead (like she would have done at school), but where? Do the online classes offer real labs, or just virtual ones?

 

My ds is taking AP Physics this year from PA Homeschoolers, and he does all the labs at home.  I think since she will just have had honors chemistry, it would be wise to go ahead and do AP Chem.  She can then take AP Physics her senior year if she wants (they are changing the AP Physics exam next year and I would not want to take it the first year of a new exam).  My ds has had no prior experience with physics and is doing very well in the AP Physics class.

 

 The CC English is a question mark. Doesn't anyone else think, though, that it would be good to get it out of the way in the fall?

 

You do make a good point of getting it done in the fall, but if it is a good class your dd will be doing a full year's worth of work in one semester, and that might make the fall very difficult.  But, yes, it will make for a lighetr load in the spring.

 

And possibly double-up w/ SAT2 Chem - I hear that can be a good idea, then you kind of study for two tests at once.

 

Definately do this if she is planning on applying to a more selective college.  It is better to do them now than to discover you need them when applying to college later.  After taking the AP Chem exam my ds did a couple practice SAT II tests and socred very well, so there was not a lot of extra prep.

 

Do they offer it a little later after the APs are over? The AP tests are in May, no?

 

Yes, the AP exams are in May, and there is an ACT exam the first Saturday in June.  It is good to have your child take both the SAT and ACT because they are different tests and sometimes a student does significantly better on one compared to the other.

 

Blessings,

Michelle

 

[Musicmom]

Yes, this exactly.  If this were her first programming class, or even her first experience with Java, I'd feel differently.  She also has dh to help if she ever gets stuck.

 

 

I know someone else thought it might be a detriment, but this is how I'm feeling.  I say I know they'll get done this way because the partner would be a good friend's son, extremely bright, who has also taken Chem before.  We're also planning on running a Physics lab class for our 8th graders at her house biweekly, so we figured my older dd and her son could do their labs at the same time.  No special coordination needed - every other week, get together, do labs. For me at least, this has always been the way to make sure the hands-on science gets done - have outside accountability, even if it's just meeting up with someone else at a set time. At school they always have lab partners, so she's used to working with someone else.  They can do the hands-on stuff together and the write-ups at home, just like they do in school as well. 

 

I'm glad to hear there are only 13 labs, that means bi-weekly should be plenty.  Do the labs have to be done at a specific time in the curriculum, or is there some leeway?  Meaning, would bi-weekly work, or would it sometimes have to be within a week or three weeks later?  It will definitely help if it could be consistently bi-weekly when we're there anyway...

 

I do wonder about having her take an Honors-level Physics instead (like she would have done at school), but where?  Do the online classes offer real labs, or just virtual ones?

 

 

 

Yeah, I really think the Comp Sci and the Spanish shouldn't give her too much trouble.  The CC English is a question mark.  Doesn't anyone else think, though, that it would be good to get it out of the way in the fall?  If she took an online class, it would be all year, and the crunch would be at testing time rather than in December.  And it would be one more thing online/at home.  I did think it would be good to get out of the house sometimes...

 

For tests, she'd take the PSAT and probably the German SAT2 w/ listening in the fall, then the SAT and the APs in the spring.  Again, we could always downgrade the APUSH to a SAT2 in US History, no?  And possibly double-up w/ SAT2 Chem - I hear that can be a good idea, then you kind of study for two tests at once.

 

The ACT is fairly unheard of here, but I have thought about having her take it too (hear about it so much on these boards!!)  Do they offer it a little later after the APs are over?  The AP tests are in May, no?

 

 

If the lab coordination is already happening, then that will help a lot.  Strict biweekly may or may not work out, though.  Seems to me the labs were assigned at particular points in the curriculum, and not necessarily at regular intervals--but that's my memory from 2 years ago.  Perhaps someone with more recent experience will know better how it's working now.

 

Yes, if you're going to do the CC English, I fully agree that fall would be the best time to do it.  That gives you the most flexibility and keeps it out of the spring crunch.  

 

My dd also did the SAT2 in Chem.  It's a very good idea to do that one when you are already doing AP Chem, but do be aware that the format, question phrasing and terminology of the SAT 2 is different enough that it will require separate prep of its own.  Same for history if you decide to do the SAT 2--it will require working with a good prep book or two in order to do well.

 

Yes, the AP tests are in May.  The last SAT (and SAT2) date is usually in very early June, and the last ACT date is also in June--usually a week or so after the last SAT date.  So doing the ACT in June could work out fine if your dd isn't too burned out on testing by that point.  Depending on how important the ACT is to you, you could also consider the April or an early winter date to avoid the late spring crunch.  Or, if your dd is getting great scores on the SAT, you may not need the ACT at all.  Most colleges accept either test (double check the requirements of any colleges she's interested in to be sure, though), and testing can get to be very stressful.

[Dicentra]

A little off topic, maybe...  I'm really, really curious to see what the new AP Chem exam looks like.  This is the first year of the revamped exam and I'm wondering if it will follow the same path as the Bio.  AP Chem has always been considered one of the most intense AP courses (from what I understand) so I'm curious if the new exam will still require that kind of intensity in order to score a 5.  Just thinking it might have some bearing, Matryoshka, on your dd's workload next year.