HELP!! *Update* & AP Bio / Alg II questions!

[Matryoshka]

UPDATE:  Okay, below was from a number of months back.  Thought she'd decided to stay the course.  Then last week her schedule @ school blew up (more info in post below), so she's making very loud noises again.  Issues are pretty much the same so I thought I'd just bump this... more info below...

 

:willy_nilly: :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly:  :scared: :svengo:

 

So now dd#2 is making noises about coming home for 11th!

 

The other dd had at least been making noises in that direction for a while - she's an an introvert and hasn't liked most of her classes this year - but this dd is my social butterfly, the one who spent all year in 8th asking *every day* when she'd see her friends again.  She has made a large group of really, really great friends at school - fun, geeky, studious, supportive, no drama at all.  I think she'll miss that more than she realizes.  She already goes in early and stays late most days so she can see more of them. Also, unlike her twin sister, she's loved all her classes and teachers this year.  She's even warmed to the chem teacher.  She blossoms in group discussions.  And orchestra - she loves orchestra, and her orchestra teacher. Yes, there's a lot of academic pressure at this school, but I think she's handling it as well as anyone else.  She also still gets to see her homeschooling friends.

 

I have no Plan B for her.  Before now, she has shown Zero interest in making one.

 

Ack. Ack. Ack. Hyperventilate.

 

So... just in case she isn't blowing smoke, could anyone help me start a plan B??  Her plan for next year was to take:

 

Honors English (11th grade)

Algebra II (not honors)

AP Biology

APUSH

AP Spanish

Orchestra

 

Electives she's been interested in: A+ History (new half-year elective at school, project-based), Psychology, Marine Biology, Forensic Science, oh, and Art, although with all the other electives she's having a hard time fitting it in at school.

 

AP Spanish I could have her do through PA Hsers

APUSH I could have her do the FundaFunda Curric. w/ her sister if they're both home

English I guess I could have her also do whatever her sister would do (either CC comp or maybe AP Language?  Yikes, $$$$ is adding up!)

 

Math???  That one's huge.  In stark opposition to her sister, she does so much better with a math teacher.  We had a crash and burn with Algebra I - she had to retake the second half freshman year.  In contrast, she's been doing great with math in school, and has loved both her teachers.  She also doesn't like video teaching - I got her Thinkwell Geometry to pre-study over the summer (at her request), and she barely glanced at it.  CC again? 

 

What about Bio AP?  That's another biggie - she's been really looking forward to that one.  The Bio class at the CC I've heard is more like high school honors rather than AP - she had a fantastic honors Bio freshman year.  AP would be much better.

 

Well, now I'm feeling good that I spent the $ to keep my place on the coop waiting list.  It won't be good for any academics, but it will be a good social outlet (they were thinking of coming even if they stayed in school- most of it is after school hours - there are other ex-hsers that do too).

 

[Julie of KY]

One other thing to consider besides academics is if she's going to be in 11th grade, is she coming home for good (the last two years)? Some school systems are very difficult to transfer homeschool high school credits to return to school. Some school districts will work with you and give credit if she can pass a test, others don't transfer any homeschool credits and make her repeat everything. Of course this isn't an issue if she plans on graduating from homeschool.

 

Good luck with all the decisions.

[Matryoshka]

One other thing to consider besides academics is if she's going to be in 11th grade, is she coming home for good (the last two years)? Some school systems are very difficult to transfer homeschool high school credits to return to school. Some school districts will work with you and give credit if she can pass a test, others don't transfer any homeschool credits and make her repeat everything. Of course this isn't an issue if she plans on graduating from homeschool.

 

Good luck with all the decisions.

 

Yes, it would have to be a one-way ticket.  No pressure on me, then!  :scared:

[specialmama]

Matryoshka, we are in the exact same boat! My daughter announced last week that she'd like to come home next year after 3 years in school. My dd will be home for grade 10 then, and yes, one way ticket here as well. My dd is in the youth orchestra (flute and piccolo) and has an amazing teacher. Her dream right now would be to spend more than her current 4 hours a day on flute/piccolo; she'd really like to spend more time on music theory and skip the wasted time she sees at school. She also feels that Language Arts in school is incredibly dumbed down.

 

I'm not much help with your plan, I just thought I'd chime in as you're singing a familiar song! It's an exciting song though, with a faint backdrop of coins clanging in the distance. :tongue_smilie:

[Matryoshka]

Further Updates: So it ended up that the A+ History class she was so looking forward to conflicted with AP Spanish.  We decided to try to let her take AP Spanish w/ Harari, drop it at school, and upgrade her to APUSH (she'd decided earlier on Honors US Hist but changed her mind).  She talked to all the teachers and got all her permissions from them - but then she procrastinated about getting the official paperwork to guidance, and APUSH is full.  She doesn't want to have only one AP on her jr. year transcript.  So we're back to AP Spanish @ school and no fun elective at all.  She's really mad and says she just wants to get out of there.  It could blow over, but the second half of the year didn't go as well as the first - she had gotten really stressed and burnt-out by the end of the year, and her grades dropped a bit (mostly B's).  Halfway through the year she started hanging out with her school friends less and started hanging out more with kids from the homeschool coop (ironic).

 

So now I've got her signed up for exactly nothing, have at most 1/4 of a real plan, I'm thinking many of the classes I would have wanted to sign her up for are full or will be soon, and we're leaving on vacation Tuesday until mid-July. :svengo:   I'm not sure what I should even do at this point - she doesn't want to talk about it at.all. past "get me out of there".  I really feel like I need a lot more buy-in than that.  I don't need 'angry teen' at home next year!

 

But just to round out my half-baked semi-plan above, so I can hopefully relax just a little while on this vacation w/ at least the outline of a Plan B... any feedback on AP Bio or Algebra II?  Those are still the big sticking points...

 

Anyone have an experience w/ a great AP Bio class online?  Needs to be secular.  PA Hsers?  Anyone actually taken it there? How is the class? Seems like most of the other places are religious and only reluctantly teach evolution...

 

And Algebra 2... something that will prepare her for Precalc senior year but not be super-hard.  And she needs a real, live teacher that is not me.  Not a video, not a computer.  See post above about the Alg1 fiasco.  She did well with Lial's Prealgebra, but then punted w/ Lial's Alg1 - but maybe that was just that she was trying to teach herself with periodic help from dad?  Should I try Jann in TX (assuming the class isn't full)?  What other options are there?  Saxon and Foersters would both be a disaster w/ this kid, and I'm guessing Dolciani wouldn't be great either?  Seems like all the live classes other than Jann use one of those? 

[Matryoshka]

And Algebra 2...  Should I try Jann in TX (assuming the class isn't full)? 

 

Sigh, yep, Jann's class is full with a waiting list. :(  Any other ideas???

[Mom22ns]

I recently saw someone recommend Scholars Online Algebra 2 taught by Art Mabbott. I haven't used this or researched it other than to go to their website and see that it exists. The person gave a glowing review and it is live classes. It might be worth checking.

[Matryoshka]

I recently saw someone recommend Scholars Online Algebra 2 taught by Art Mabbott. I haven't used this or researched it other than to go to their website and see that it exists. The person gave a glowing review and it is live classes. It might be worth checking.

 

Wow, that does actually use a different text. Thanks! 

 

Anyone have any reviews of this class, or of this text for a math student that needs clear and solid but not über-challenging material?  Discovering Advanced Algebra: An Investigative Approach (I think this is from Key Curriculum Press)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Further Updates: So it ended up that the A+ History class she was so looking forward to conflicted with AP Spanish.  We decided to try to let her take AP Spanish w/ Harari, drop it at school, and upgrade her to APUSH (she'd decided earlier on Honors US Hist but changed her mind).  She talked to all the teachers and got all her permissions from them - but then she procrastinated about getting the official paperwork to guidance, and APUSH is full.  She doesn't want to have only one AP on her jr. year transcript.  So we're back to AP Spanish @ school and no fun elective at all.  She's really mad and says she just wants to get out of there.  It could blow over, but the second half of the year didn't go as well as the first - she had gotten really stressed and burnt-out by the end of the year, and her grades dropped a bit (mostly B's).  Halfway through the year she started hanging out with her school friends less and started hanging out more with kids from the homeschool coop (ironic).

 

So now I've got her signed up for exactly nothing, have at most 1/4 of a real plan, I'm thinking many of the classes I would have wanted to sign her up for are full or will be soon, and we're leaving on vacation Tuesday until mid-July. :svengo:   I'm not sure what I should even do at this point - she doesn't want to talk about it at.all. past "get me out of there".  I really feel like I need a lot more buy-in than that.  I don't need 'angry teen' at home next year!

 

But just to round out my half-baked semi-plan above, so I can hopefully relax just a little while on this vacation w/ at least the outline of a Plan B... any feedback on AP Bio or Algebra II?  Those are still the big sticking points...

 

Anyone have an experience w/ a great AP Bio class online?  Needs to be secular.  PA Hsers?  Anyone actually taken it there? How is the class? Seems like most of the other places are religious and only reluctantly teach evolution...

 

And Algebra 2... something that will prepare her for Precalc senior year but not be super-hard.  And she needs a real, live teacher that is not me.  Not a video, not a computer.  See post above about the Alg1 fiasco.  She did well with Lial's Prealgebra, but then punted w/ Lial's Alg1 - but maybe that was just that she was trying to teach herself with periodic help from dad?  Should I try Jann in TX (assuming the class isn't full)?  What other options are there?  Saxon and Foersters would both be a disaster w/ this kid, and I'm guessing Dolciani wouldn't be great either?  Seems like all the live classes other than Jann use one of those? 

 

For AP Bio: Have you already looked at Kolbe Academy?  They have an Honors and an Adv Honors Biology that use Campbell Biology as the text.  I was just on the phone with them and they mentioned that they are submitting their Adv Honors course to CB for AP review.  They aren't sure how the course will be viewed, since it doesn't have a live lab component.  But it sounds like the intention is to be AP level in prep for the exam.

 

My impression isn't that they are grudging about evolution, but that it is set into a wider context by also including church teachings. 

[Matryoshka]

Okay, I've spent some more time poking around and pondering, and even got dd to answer one question (she says she may be willing talk more later tonight at least...).

 

The question I asked was how much she'd really liked the Lial's text.  She said she wasn't actually that crazy about it.  But I'm not sure if anything else would be better - it's not like she's the type to get enthused about a math text, if ykwim...  She didn't like the text at school. I'm very waffly on the "discovery" text mentioned above...  I've heard so many good things about Dolciani, but isn't that a much harder text?  She needs clear and straightforward, and I'd like it to be solidly grade-level (unlike, say,TT or MUS), but I'm not looking for an honors-level text for this kid.  I have Foersters Alg2 here she could look at

 

On the Bio front, the reviews at PA Hsers do look good... I think I'll show them to her and see what she thinks...

[Matryoshka]

For AP Bio: Have you already looked at Kolbe Academy?  They have an Honors and an Adv Honors Biology that use Campbell Biology as the text.  I was just on the phone with them and they mentioned that they are submitting their Adv Honors course to CB for AP review.  They aren't sure how the course will be viewed, since it doesn't have a live lab component.  But it sounds like the intention is to be AP level in prep for the exam.

 

My impression isn't that they are grudging about evolution, but that it is set into a wider context by also including church teachings. 

 

Thanks!  Yes, the Catholics aren't anti-evolution. :)  I actually went to a Catholic high school, and they didn't even bother with any church teachings in Bio classes - it was straight-up science. :)  I would like a real lab component, though.  Reading the PA Hsers reviews, it sounds like they do real labs, so that's a plus for them.

[Nan in Mass]

Would community college be an option?  Vastly different from AP classmates when it comes to discussions and assignments and not the easiest place to make friends, but it would be live.  We found the "rigour" varied greatly, depending on the prof.

 

I have no experience, but I can't remember reading any complaints about the Penn AP classes and I can remember reading that various people have used them successfully.

 

Maybe it might be better to talk after she's had vacation and a break?  I've found that my children were more rational then than right after finals. : )

 

Nan

[orelbeilinson]

I don't know FundaFunda, but you need to check if their curriculum is updated to the recent redesign.

[Matryoshka]

Would community college be an option?  Vastly different from AP classmates when it comes to discussions and assignments and not the easiest place to make friends, but it would be live.  We found the "rigour" varied greatly, depending on the prof.

 

The 'plan' even before this was that she'd dual-enroll senior year.  She could actually do that through the school and get a diploma from them as well.  But junior year, there's still things to get out of the way that she can't get at the cc (like the AP Bio and AP Spanish - their courses are not equivalent), so I think she'd have to "really" homeschool.  But I am thinking of the cc (we'd use Middlesex) for some things, if they fit in her schedule.  Maybe Composition, maybe an elective?  And I did think of Math there, but I have no idea of what text they use, and the teacher ratings are so-so.  I'm also confused by their progression - one Alg2 course says it does not fulfill the prereq for PreCalc, while another that does says it's meant for math/science majors.  I actually tried calling their Dual-enrollment people today, but no one was answering the phone.  Are they gone for the summer?

 

 

Maybe it might be better to talk after she's had vacation and a break?  I've found that my children were more rational then than right after finals. : )

 

I think you are 1000% right here.  I'm just worried that many or all the classes will be full by the time we get back from vacation...  trying to figure out how to walk that line...

[Matryoshka]

I don't know FundaFunda, but you need to check if their curriculum is updated to the recent redesign.

 

I was thinking that myself.  Probably not, actually.  I'm wondering if I should just use that as an outline and have her take the SAT2 for US History instead?  It's one of her favorite subjects, but that also means that she'd rather dig in than have a survey with lots of dates (which is why I'd originally thought it might not be so bad for her to take Honors US History 2 (which was 1865-present, so potentially more depth), and A+/project-based history at school instead of the AP.

 

Harari isn't offering APUSH this year, is it?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thanks!  Yes, the Catholics aren't anti-evolution. :)  I actually went to a Catholic high school, and they didn't even bother with any church teachings in Bio classes - it was straight-up science. :)  I would like a real lab component, though.  Reading the PA Hsers reviews, it sounds like they do real labs, so that's a plus for them.

 

A friend of mine used to do science labs for homeschoolers as her kids went through various courses.  I helped with biology for several labs the first time she did it.  She pretty much used the labs in the Apologia book. And while I don't like Apologia's non-evolution emphasis, I did like the labs I saw.  There was one that used pond water and an egg white solution to grow micro-organisms that we looked at under the microscope.  There were also four different dissections. 

 

I'm not sure what labs a course would include if it were more focused on cellular work. I have considered just getting a used copy of Apologia in order to use the lab directions in it.

 

[Matryoshka]

A friend of mine used to do science labs for homeschoolers as her kids went through various courses.  I helped with biology for several labs the first time she did it.  She pretty much used the labs in the Apologia book. And while I don't like Apologia's non-evolution emphasis, I did like the labs I saw.  There was one that used pond water and an egg white solution to grow micro-organisms that we looked at under the microscope.  There were also four different dissections. 

 

I'm not sure what labs a course would include if it were more focused on cellular work. I have considered just getting a used copy of Apologia in order to use the lab directions in it.

 

She's already taken a full year Honors Biology class that had really great labs.  She's also done all of BU's CityLab labs, which include 1-2 of the AP labs - but those were all in 8th & 9th grade, I don't think I can double-count them from way back then. ;)  I've seen Apologia's S&S - I'd wager she's already done more than that, and AP Bio is a completely different animal.  Apologia is pretty much taxonomy with an "honors" anatomy section, with precious little on microbiology and biochemistry, which is a huge focus of AP (and that's not even bringing in evolution)...

 

But it sounds like the PA HSers class does assign labs to do at home.  I'll have to talk to dd and see what she's willing to do...  she actually really likes lab work (unlike me, I loved reading and learning what was in the book, but never got really excited about the applied side...).  My brother is actually an AP BIo teacher - if she does decide to come home, I'm thinking I may ask him to at least mentor her through the few AP labs that are required (I think there are a few that are required, the rest are more at the teacher's discretion?)  I was also already planning on doing CityLab again next year for younger dd, so if she does them again next year, I'm fine with counting them. :)

 

[GoodGrief]

I know you said no video teaching, but I do think Teaching Textbooks Alg 2 is a great product.  Just do it from the book rather than on screen.

 

My junior will be doing the PA Homeschoolers AP Bio.  No experience with it, but it looked pretty good to me.  :-)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Gotcha. I forgot for a moment that you were looking for AP.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Not to derail the discussion, but since your dd2 is social have you talked with her about Prom, graduation, dances, football games, and all the social stuff that takes place not only junior but mainly senior year? I am all for the homeschooling, but those might be sizable regrets in her future if she is a social extrovert.

 

My husband is a high school teacher. Our entire family goes to the prom at his alternative school. Ds looks forward to it all year long. If we lose him to public school, it will be for all those social outlets!

 

Either way, Good for you for trying to scramble and meet her unexpected desires. Knowing that Mom has her back regardless of how far from left field the request comes from is a pretty great feeling.

[Matryoshka]

Not to derail the discussion, but since your dd2 is social have you talked with her about Prom, graduation, dances, football games, and all the social stuff that takes place not only junior but mainly senior year? I am all for the homeschooling, but those might be sizable regrets in her future if she is a social extrovert.

 

And here comes the irony.  Her school has no dances.  None (except for jr/sr prom).  They outlawed grinding a few years back, and the kids decided to boycott the dances, which apparently became a 'thing'.  As recently as last year (her freshman year) they attempted to schedule dances, but they all got cancelled for lack of interest.  Dd didn't lack for dances, though, she (and friends, homeschooled and not) went to the Mormon dances (we are not Mormon - but we know lots, and they do throw great dances!)

 

Then this year she only went to a handful of Mormon dances, but she started attending the local coop's monthly homeschool dances - and often brought ps friends (since they don't have dances, they're happy to come).  She was actually invited to jr. prom at the high school, but ended up ditching it halfway through the evening because the coop's homeschool prom was the same night, and she didn't want to miss that.  She also started attending contra dances weekly with her homeschool friends, and started inviting some ps friends along to those too, and has made a bunch of new friends there as well.

 

And none of us here like football games, so that's a non-issue.  ;)  It would be nice to have graduation.  If she stayed next year and dual-enrolled just for sr. year, she still could have graduated with her class.  She's currently so disgusted with school, she says she doesn't care, but she often says extreme things when having a fit of pique.  If I can at least get things lined up to before we go on vacation, I can have her make a more final decision after she's had some time to decompress and see things in a more objective fashion.

[In The Great White North]

 

 

Saxon and Foersters would both be a disaster w/ this kid, and I'm guessing Dolciani wouldn't be great either? 

 

We've used Saxon, Lial's, Foerster, AoPS, LoF and Dolciani at various levels, with various kids and I would say Dolciani is the clearest and easiest to understand.  I just wish she had a calculus book.