Visual learner math question

[roanna]

I have read through a few posts and have found some links but just wondering if someone is currently working through this right now and what specifically did you do?

 

My son is 7, 2nd grade.  The best curriculum that has worked so far is Rod and Staff 2.  We have tried MUS (I think it didn't work because I didn't like it) and Singapore.  

 

We are 1/2 through grade 2 but he still really struggles with remembering 7+5, etc, even though R&S is very repetitious.  

 

If you say c-rods are the ticket what specifically did you do?  Would legos work (we have too many of those).  I need it spelled out.  

 

I am NOT very creative with math, other things yes.  It's just one of those subjects I just want to get done.  My son is best at story problems in math.  I guess he must visually see everything and it's easier.  But to do a whole page of problems like that would take hours to complete.  

 

If you had a visual learner like this did it click for them at some grade?  

 

(we do not have money to buy programs but I am willing to use creativity to make things)

[Arcadia]

Would legos work (we have too many of those). I need it spelled out.

My kids didn't like the base 10 or base 100 blocks so we used the uncountable legos I own. I didn't get the c-rods. I also used pennies and dimes and the $1 coins I have.

What we did with the legos was to do groups of 10 and groups of 100. My younger has this ability to fall asleep and moving Lego bricks around helps to keep him "active". My older just enjoyed any excuse to play with legos.

 

ETA:

My younger's learning style is audio-visual. Just visual alone does not work. He has to talk while he do anything including math.

[Guest Kay in IN]

It's been several years since I have posted but I have a 5th grade granddaughter who is a visual/spatial learner.  Rod and Staff math has worked well for her and here's a few things I've learned with her over the years. 

 

Let them use charts.  The facts will stick but it takes time.  Present new facts with a little story and a picture to go with it.  There are a few programs out there that will help with this, but you can do it yourself with a little creativity.

 

Visual learners are quick to learn new concepts.  Give them the big picture first and then show them how to get to the answer in steps later.  My granddaughter is constantly surprising me by working out how to find the answer on her own.  She will sit there with the proverbial deer in the headlights look on her face, and then blurt out that she knows how to do that.  And then she does it.

 

Teach them shortcuts.  I taught her long division first, made sure she could do it and made her practice it a couple of times a week.  Right after I taught her long division I taught her how to do short division (which I don't think is taught much anymore) which she vastly prefers.  

 

Let them do as much as they can mentally.  You'll be surprised at how well they can work inside their own heads.  

 

Do enough math problems to cement the process and let the rest go.  My granddaughter does about 30 problems a day, about half of which are word problems and that's more than enough for her.  Visual learners take more time to do the problems, but the answers are almost always correct, and once they know the process they don't forget.  Too many problems are overkill.  

 

Hope some of this has been helpful for you! Kay

[roanna]

Yes, that was very helpful.  Thank you for spelling it out for me. I can identify with many things you were saying.  

[....]

My son (almost 11 yro) is a VSL.  I've struggled non-stop over the years with this stuff.  :(   When he was in Kindergarten, I thought he had a learning disorder.  Our school district did a 4-hour evaluation with him and couldn't find anything.  I italicized parts of your post.

 

 

We are 1/2 through grade 2 but he still really struggles with remembering 7+5, etc, even though R&S is very repetitious.  

 

My son could not even do a formal math program in 2nd grade, so you are already ahead of us.  At some point, I just gave up and we started reading living math books for his math time.

 

If you say c-rods are the ticket what specifically did you do?    

 

My son did like Miquon when he was younger, but once the rods went away, he still couldn't remember his math facts or what he was supposed to do to solve arithmetic problems.

 

My son is best at story problems in math.  I guess he must visually see everything and it's easier.  But to do a whole page of problems like that would take hours to complete.  

 

This is why my older two kids are using Art of Problem Solving.  They're both in the pre algebra book.  My son actually did like Beast Academy (so look at that one for later), but the levels weren't coming out fast enough for him (this was about a year ago or so).  AOPS has fewer problems in it than most textbooks and they're very wordy.  My older two are also big fans of the Life of Fred series.  Wordiness...story problems...really weird information that doesn't seem pertinent to math...it's right down their alley.  They also finished Hands-on Equations (that was a big hit).  So, my son can solve long equations with parenthesis and order of operations, but still can't remember his math facts.  #&^%$#   :(   Don't think you have to buy another math program, I just wanted to tell you what has worked for us so far.

 

If you had a visual learner like this did it click for them at some grade?  

 

All the math facts never did.  He does know a number of them (no pun intended).  The long division finally clicked this year (sigh, long division).  I'll be perfectly honest, he is awful with arithmetic-stuff that has many steps.  But, he is actually REALLY good with geometry.  He's spending this year working through the geometry chapters in the AOPS pre algebra text, Drawing Geometry (which uses circles to make perfect shapes) and a number of beginning drafting books.  He has a workbook where he designs a house and figures out the square footage/amount of building materials for each detail in the project.  He's really good with measurements (weird, right?).  We were thinking he might make a good architect or something like that later.  He seems to really like geometry, construction and drafting-type stuff.    

 

I read somewhere that they're supposed to be really good at physics, too (like the conceptual side of it).  When he was in 4th grade, he did the middle school RS4K physics course and did all the projects in Physics Workshop.  Even *I* couldn't figure out Physics Workshop.   :glare:

 

I wanted to add that when the math has something to do with a real-life problem, my son is more capable of solving it.  Also, he doesn't like to be shown steps to problems (it overwhelms him).  He just wants to have the problem and work it all out on his own.

 

Not sure if any of that helped you.  You're not alone!  

 

[....]

Right after I taught her long division I taught her how to do short division (which I don't think is taught much anymore) which she vastly prefers.  

 

 

My kids know short division from one of the Life of Fred books, but I noticed a lot of math programs don't teach that anymore.  I wonder why!  I remember being taught that when we were in school.

[Hunter]

Roanna, have you tried copywork? Numbers and letters as well as diagrams?

 

You should be able to get How to Tutor by Sam Blumenfeld at the library. I learned from that book how to do copywork. After reading the book, I can use charts from other curricula, and don't need the charts in HTT. So you would only need to borrow the book, not own it.

 

For examples of how to include diagrams in the copywork, google "waldorf math" or "math mainlesson". Here is a free pdf on Waldorf Math.

http://www.entwicklungshilfe3.de/fileadmin/entwicklungshilfe/MATHEMATICS_GRADES_1%262_TRAINING_MANUAL.pdf

 

Chanting math facts is also another idea. I learned that from Professor B, but you don't need to buy the curriculum, just use a chart from HTT or another book. When a student knows he is doing addition (or another operation) there is no need to chant anything but the numbers.

 

5 + 2 = 7

5 + 3 = 8

5 + 4 = 9

 

would be chanted

 

5 2, 7

5 3, 8

5 4, 9

[roanna]

Evanthe,

 

Thank you for your story.  All that helps.  I think my son will also do well in geometry also because as a small child, like 15 months, he was able to do 12 piece puzzles, then 24, and 48 before age 2.  He could see visually how they go together and wouldn't get frustrated.  I just looked at BA and I think he would really like that type of math but the pretest is way out of his league right now.  

 

Hunter, 

I downloaded that book on math with Waldorf teaching.  As I look back I think doing a Waldorf type K/1st probably would have been good for him because it is so visual.  I don't really buy into everything they believe, but I like things about it.  

 

I have yet to find out what my 4yr old leans towards, except that fact that she has energy for 5 children. 

[Guest Kay in IN]

My kids know short division from one of the Life of Fred books, but I noticed a lot of math programs don't teach that anymore.  I wonder why!  I remember being taught that when we were in school.

 

I was also taught when I was in school, in the late 50's and early 60's. The only place I've seen it taught since I've been out of school is Saxon math's special ed.  Teachers in math classes taught us so many tricks and shortcuts back then, because there were no calculators or computers.  I can still calculate rings around high schoolers to this day, lol!

[Ellie]

I have read through a few posts and have found some links but just wondering if someone is currently working through this right now and what specifically did you do?

 

My son is 7, 2nd grade.  The best curriculum that has worked so far is Rod and Staff 2.  We have tried MUS (I think it didn't work because I didn't like it) and Singapore.  

 

We are 1/2 through grade 2 but he still really struggles with remembering 7+5, etc, even though R&S is very repetitious.  

 

If you say c-rods are the ticket what specifically did you do?  Would legos work (we have too many of those).  I need it spelled out.  

 

I am NOT very creative with math, other things yes.  It's just one of those subjects I just want to get done.  My son is best at story problems in math.  I guess he must visually see everything and it's easier.  But to do a whole page of problems like that would take hours to complete.  

 

If you had a visual learner like this did it click for them at some grade?  

 

(we do not have money to buy programs but I am willing to use creativity to make things)

 

Are you doing all of the oral classtime with him? this is *so* important. :-) And have you used the suggested visuals (i.e. the sailboats)?

 

And the fact that he still struggles to remember 7+5 is not a big deal; the third grade R&S text continues to work on memorizing math facts. After that, I'd give him a chart and let him move on.

 

Children who are kinesthetic find value in manipulatives like c-rods when trying to understand concepts, but those don't help in learning basic math facts. :-)

 

[roanna]

Ellie, 

 

Yes I have done the sailboats and now doing the blossoms,  which he does like using both visually.  

I haven't kept up with all the oral things in the TM.  I'll get it out again.  

[Heathermomster]

I like using 10 trays and making up simple games.  You can print the 10 trays up for free, roll a multi-sided dice cube or make/use an existing game spinner that points to numbers to derive the addends, and use two brightly colored chips (buttons, beans,..beads) representing each addend, and then practice facts with the 10 trays.  He needs to practice seeing and making fives and tens.  Instead of the 10 trays, you could also practice with a homemade Rekenrek or RS abacus.

[Ellie]

Ellie, 

 

Yes I have done the sailboats and now doing the blossoms,  which he does like using both visually.  

I haven't kept up with all the oral things in the TM.  I'll get it out again.  

 

It's good to remember that for the first three grade levels, all of the teaching happens in the oral class time. The worksheets are just a reinforcement of what you taught. IOW, you won't get the best results if you hand your dc the worksheet and tell him how to do it. :-)

[forty-two]

Thank you for your story. All that helps. I think my son will also do well in geometry also because as a small child, like 15 months, he was able to do 12 piece puzzles, then 24, and 48 before age 2. He could see visually how they go together and wouldn't get frustrated. I just looked at BA and I think he would really like that type of math but the pretest is way out of his league right now.

My dd7 is very visual, and the only program that consistently works for her is Life of Fred. My plan is to start her in BA after going through all of LoF elementary (whenever that is). I looked at the LoF books and the BA 3A pre-test, and I think going through LoF elementary will cover everything needed to start BA 3 (with the possible but not definite exception of multi-step word problems, so I plan to add in CWP, which I already have). In any case, we're going to find out ;).

 

In general, playing with our c-rods, RS abacus and soroban has been of far greater help in dd7 learning her facts than any work I've done with them on purpose. I demonstrate new concepts for a few minutes (sometimes I have her watch Education Unboxed videos with me), to expand her mind, give her more ideas, and then let her go for it on her own. When I am lucky, one of my demonstrations sparks her interest right then, but in any case, until she sees it for herself, builds it completely by herself, she doesn't get it. But hanging out in one spot till she does turns math into horrible drudgery.

 

Two soroban apps have been immensely helpful: Talking Abacus (free) and Abacus Adventure (free trial, and $2.99 for the whole app, iirc). Dd7 decided to count to 1,000 by ones on the talking abacus app one day, which cemented place value and making five/ten exchanges. And the Abacus Adventure is providing fact practice as well as abacus practice and mental math practice; dd7 gets stuck occasionally (she is pretty much learning addition with regrouping through the app), so I do actively teach it and work with her through the rough patches, but I can see her speed and facility with numbers improving by leaps and bounds.

[roanna]

It's good to remember that for the first three grade levels, all of the teaching happens in the oral class time. The worksheets are just a reinforcement of what you taught. IOW, you won't get the best results if you hand your dc the worksheet and tell him how to do it. :-)

 

When there are new topics introduced we do go over it, but for days and days they have 5+7 worksheets.  I do just hand him those.  But I will get the TM out because I think it will help me to reinforce with him.

 

I printed out a game today from a montessori help site.  It was an addition game up to 12 and it was stretching for him to be all across the board from what he's learned but it was also different so I think we both enjoyed that.  

[Ellie]

When there are new topics introduced we do go over it, but for days and days they have 5+7 worksheets.  I do just hand him those.  But I will get the TM out because I think it will help me to reinforce with him.

 

I printed out a game today from a montessori help site.  It was an addition game up to 12 and it was stretching for him to be all across the board from what he's learned but it was also different so I think we both enjoyed that.  

 

Please do go over the TM. The worksheets reinforce what is taught in the oral class time, not the other way around. :-)

[roanna]

I just spent a bit of time going over the TM , while I wasn't doing a few of the drills (flash cards) I don't think that what I wasn't doing was going to make a huge difference with his learning style issues.  There are no games or other visual things that are significant outside of the blossoms (which I did make and use)  that would really be of help.  

 

I have been scouring some sites that have more visual things and I found one that I think would really be helpful and interesting to him.  

 

I really appreciated the stories of other moms who have gone through it, makes me hopeful to just keep plugging away!  

 

Thanks Ellie and everyone.

[Mandylubug]

We add in beans, legos, erasers, toys, or what have you to allow them to manipulate to get their answers. We do the visual demonstrations given in the TM, provide a number line and allow using manipulatives to solve the problems.

 

We also use xtramath.org and math maniacs app.