Dyslexia or ?? What says The Hive?

[Jess4879]

Our oldest (will be 10 in November), has been slow to read. We have had her vision evaluated and there are no issues there.  The following is a list of things she does/does not struggle with:

 

-was quick to talk
-no trouble learning alphabet, sequencing, initial phonics sounds, days, weeks, colors, shapes or numbers
-no trouble segmenting words or identifying syllables
-enjoys reading and writing on her own time, but not when it's part of a lesson

-is able to accurately and with detail, retell what she reads, but often fails to speak in complete sentences and assumes the listener knows what she means without actually verbalizing it.

 

 

-mispronounces words - like "dimes" for "diamonds" and "close" for "clothes" and needed numerous reminders on how to correctly say these words
-struggles with rhyming, although she's improving
-struggles with memorizing her math facts (she still does not have quick recall of addition and subtraction facts)

-struggled with learning multiplication, but was quick to pick up on division
-struggles with fluency
-does not seem to reverse words (ie: "top" for "pot"), but she will guess wildly to make a word fit with one she already knows
-spelling is usually good in isolation, but does not transfer into her writing and she will spell the same word multiple ways in the same piece of writing

- will decode a word and then fail to recognize it in further down the same page

 

I am thinking dyslexia?  but I really have no idea.  What do you think?  What is our next step?  We're in Canada and are required to register with a school board.  Do I request an evaluation through them?   

 

 

[PeterPan]

Have you had her hearing checked?  Tried the Earobics software? 

[Jess4879]

She has had her hearing checked with our family doc.  She hasn't seen a hearing specialist. I haven't heard of Earobics. Off to google. :)

[PeterPan]

Barton has a free screening test, so you could do that.  Have you done any testing at all?  I don't know how you do evals in Canada.  In the US, you have to go through your ped for referrals if you have insurance.  If you go privately, you can just call them up.  An audiologist, for a CAPD eval, will want the psych eval first, at least around here.  In reality what you want is the psych eval, yes.  But you've got things all over the place with several possible explanations.  You have to look at things in context and compare them against scores.  It's not shocking that she's shying away from the BJU Reading, but whether that's because of an academic issue or an attention issue, well that's the question.  My dd isn't worksheety, so the BJU drove her to the brink.  

 

Even completing thoughts can reflect a lot of things.  Some people just aren't as verbal as others.  If she's VSL and seeing in pictures and you combine that with a low processing speed, yes it could come out that way.  If you slow down and give her a lot more time to get her thoughts out, what happens?  

 

Then you have the rhyming.  That's the one thing that's sorta red light to me.  So yes, get some evals, get the process moving.  But whether you stop with the psych or whether you need an audiologist, you just have to start into the process and see.  I wouldn't assume the labels, because these things are so interconnected, they could end up with any label.  But yes, if a 9 yo isn't rhyming, it's time to get some answers.  You want to know if it's an auditory processing issue or dyslexia or attention or something different.

[Jess4879]

Barton has a free screening test, so you could do that.  Have you done any testing at all?  I don't know how you do evals in Canada.  In the US, you have to go through your ped for referrals if you have insurance.  If you go privately, you can just call them up.  An audiologist, for a CAPD eval, will want the psych eval first, at least around here.  In reality what you want is the psych eval, yes.  But you've got things all over the place with several possible explanations.  You have to look at things in context and compare them against scores.  It's not shocking that she's shying away from the BJU Reading, but whether that's because of an academic issue or an attention issue, well that's the question.  My dd isn't worksheety, so the BJU drove her to the brink.  

 

Even completing thoughts can reflect a lot of things.  Some people just aren't as verbal as others.  If she's VSL and seeing in pictures and you combine that with a low processing speed, yes it could come out that way.  If you slow down and give her a lot more time to get her thoughts out, what happens?  

 

Then you have the rhyming.  That's the one thing that's sorta red light to me.  So yes, get some evals, get the process moving.  But whether you stop with the psych or whether you need an audiologist, you just have to start into the process and see.  I wouldn't assume the labels, because these things are so interconnected, they could end up with any label.  But yes, if a 9 yo isn't rhyming, it's time to get some answers.  You want to know if it's an auditory processing issue or dyslexia or attention or something different.

 

We haven't done any testing.  I have absolutely no experience with this or where to start.  :(

 

We don't use BJU Reading.  We do use BJU English and she likes it.  She is very workbooky. 

 

She can rhyme, but when we play a rhyming game, it's common for her to throw out one or two words that don't fit.  Trying to think of an example.  She may say "bread" as a rhyme for "bride".  I will have to write them down so I can give actual examples. 

[Tokyomarie]

 Have you done any testing at all?  I don't know how you do evals in Canada.  In the US, you have to go through your ped for referrals if you have insurance.  If you go privately, you can just call them up.

 

Just a minor clarification for US based folks. Whether or not a parent needs a referral from a physician for neuropsych testing in order to get insurance coverage for the testing really depends on the insurance policy. Many policies specify that a referral is needed. Others do not. Our insurance fell into the category of "not necessary.,"

[Pen]

I am not sure what the situation is in Canada, but in USA the testing that is done through the schools is usually not enough to figure out what you need to know.   Here it will tell you if the child qualifies for special services from the school, and can give a bit more of specifics, but will not actually be able to diagnose dyslexia or CAPD--at least not in my district.

 

I think I would be inclined to put a call in to pediatric department and maybe also school board to try to figure out what to do/where to go in another country.  

 

What you describe does sound like dyslexia or something--but you'll need someone to actually evaluate her in person to know.    At the same time, any free online screenings you can find like the Barton one for dyslexia might be some help to you short of an actual professional evaluation.  Also you should look for someone good to do the evaluating since skills and even areas of specialty can differ.

[Jess4879]

I am not sure what the situation is in Canada, but in USA the testing that is done through the schools is usually not enough to figure out what you need to know.   Here it will tell you if the child qualifies for special services from the school, and can give a bit more of specifics, but will not actually be able to diagnose dyslexia or CAPD--at least not in my district.

 

I think I would be inclined to put a call in to pediatric department and maybe also school board to try to figure out what to do/where to go in another country.  

 

What you describe does sound like dyslexia or something--but you'll need someone to actually evaluate her in person to know.    At the same time, any free online screenings you can find like the Barton one for dyslexia might be some help to you short of an actual professional evaluation.  Also you should look for someone good to do the evaluating since skills and even areas of specialty can differ.

 

Thanks for responding.  When I last spoke to my family doctor and my school board, their feeling was that it was fine.  We can't see a pediatrician without a referral from our family doc, so I will have to do some more looking and see what I can find out.

 

According to the online assessments, she falls into the "slight" risk category.  I think at this point, I'd like to have the evaluation just to give us more info.  Now to figure out how to get one...lol

[PeterPan]

Thanks for responding.  When I last spoke to my family doctor and my school board, their feeling was that it was fine.  We can't see a pediatrician without a referral from our family doc, so I will have to do some more looking and see what I can find out.

 

According to the online assessments, she falls into the "slight" risk category.  I think at this point, I'd like to have the evaluation just to give us more info.  Now to figure out how to get one...lol

Ok, there's a difference between going through the channels to get what you need and letting them blow you off.  DON'T LET ANYONE blow you off.  The only question is how to get the evals.  You're teaching her, and you have more than enough cause for evals.  We just don't know your system enough to know how you get the evals.  Fight and get 'em.  Cross the border, pay, whatever.  Don't let anybody blow you off.  When your mother gut says there's something up, there IS.

 

Are you able to call a psych and just get an appt?  The point of a pediatrician in the States is because for most people that ped is their kids' doc from 0-18.  Sounds like your family doc is for you.  The ped doesn't add anything then, so you want the referral to a psych for an eval.  I just don't know how you get that in Canada, sorry.  Keep calling, figure it out.  Don't let 'em blow you off.

 

Btw, there are a few developmental optometrists up in Canada, aren't there?  You might see if you can find one and get her vision checked.

[OneStepAtATime]

I know this is frustrating, but as others have said, don't give up seeking answers and don't let people sweep you under a rug.  My son functioned really, really well in school through 1st grade.  He made 100's in spelling, did great with math, science, etc. and in 1st grade he blew through the first 52 reading comprehension tests with perfect scores.  However, he hit an absolute wall in 2nd grade and we were shocked.  Turns out some of the "little" issues that didn't seem like anything at all (some weakness with rhyming, a bit of a weakness in some areas of phonics, periodically replacing words with a similar sounding word with a completely different meaning, slowness in his writing, etc.) were actually red flags for issues no one had caught.  He is dyslexic but did not reverse letters, etc.; he is dysgraphic but formed his letters just fine as long as he was using the big, lined tablet paper; and he had an auditory processing issue that did not show up on normal hearing screenings.  He is also probably ADD, but was actually effectively self-advocating in 4k, kinder and 1st by asking his teachers to move his desk away from other students and to let him complete some work while others were at recess so he wouldn't get distracted.  Because he completed his work and got such high scores, the teachers didn't question it and I didn't know his behavior wasn't really normal.  He fell outside the norms in every learning issue and nearly fell through the cracks.  When we hit second grade and he struggled so much, we were at a loss.  We asked questions and tried to get answers, but assessment through the school was utterly useless.  They just didn't have the expertise to know what was happening.  Our pediatrician didn't have a clue either, shockingly.  Everyone kept saying he was just having  a bad year and he would be fine.  We were told to send him to counseling, increase discipline at home, change his diet, take him out of extracurricular activities until he shaped up, etc.  He had never been a problem kid.  Gut instinct kept us trying for better answers.  We finally went outside normal channels and found help.  It was an amazing experience to have an evaluation through someone who had a real clue and could guide us in the right direction.  The difference has been like night and day.  

 

I agree with others wholeheartedly.  Find a way to get an evaluation, or perhaps several, including screening through an audiologist, a development optometrist and a neuropsych eval.  Not necessarily at the same time, obviously. Hopefully, you can find ways within the system to get these costs covered in some way.  There could be many different things happening and without outside help from someone with real expertise and a willingness to help you through this journey, you could be spinning your wheels for years trying to figure out what is happening as your child's self-esteem and ability to function drop.  Don't let that happen!

 

Read The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide.  That might help point you in the right direction.  There are a ton of other books that might also help, but I would probably start with that one.  Good luck!  You are not alone!

[Jess4879]

Ok, there's a difference between going through the channels to get what you need and letting them blow you off.  DON'T LET ANYONE blow you off.  The only question is how to get the evals.  You're teaching her, and you have more than enough cause for evals.  We just don't know your system enough to know how you get the evals.  Fight and get 'em.  Cross the border, pay, whatever.  Don't let anybody blow you off.  When your mother gut says there's something up, there IS.

 

Are you able to call a psych and just get an appt?  The point of a pediatrician in the States is because for most people that ped is their kids' doc from 0-18.  Sounds like your family doc is for you.  The ped doesn't add anything then, so you want the referral to a psych for an eval.  I just don't know how you get that in Canada, sorry.  Keep calling, figure it out.  Don't let 'em blow you off.

 

Btw, there are a few developmental optometrists up in Canada, aren't there?  You might see if you can find one and get her vision checked.

 

I have found the names of a few psych's and am going to research them.  I was able to touch base with a couple people in Canada who have had evals done and it seems like the best route is to book direct, so we will look into that. 

 

Thanks so much for the advice!

[Jess4879]

I know this is frustrating, but as others have said, don't give up seeking answers and don't let people sweep you under a rug.  My son functioned really, really well in school through 1st grade.  He made 100's in spelling, did great with math, science, etc. and in 1st grade he blew through the first 52 reading comprehension tests with perfect scores.  However, he hit an absolute wall in 2nd grade and we were shocked.  Turns out some of the "little" issues that didn't seem like anything at all (some weakness with rhyming, a bit of a weakness in some areas of phonics, periodically replacing words with a similar sounding word with a completely different meaning, slowness in his writing, etc.) were actually red flags for issues no one had caught.  He is dyslexic but did not reverse letters, etc.; he is dysgraphic but formed his letters just fine as long as he was using the big, lined tablet paper; and he had an auditory processing issue that did not show up on normal hearing screenings.  He is also probably ADD, but was actually effectively self-advocating in 4k, kinder and 1st by asking his teachers to move his desk away from other students and to let him complete some work while others were at recess so he wouldn't get distracted.  Because he completed his work and got such high scores, the teachers didn't question it and I didn't know his behavior wasn't really normal.  He fell outside the norms in every learning issue and nearly fell through the cracks.  When we hit second grade and he struggled so much, we were at a loss.  We asked questions and tried to get answers, but assessment through the school was utterly useless.  They just didn't have the expertise to know what was happening.  Our pediatrician didn't have a clue either, shockingly.  Everyone kept saying he was just having  a bad year and he would be fine.  We were told to send him to counseling, increase discipline at home, change his diet, take him out of extracurricular activities until he shaped up, etc.  He had never been a problem kid.  Gut instinct kept us trying for better answers.  We finally went outside normal channels and found help.  It was an amazing experience to have an evaluation through someone who had a real clue and could guide us in the right direction.  The difference has been like night and day.  

 

I agree with others wholeheartedly.  Find a way to get an evaluation, or perhaps several, including screening through an audiologist, a development optometrist and a neuropsych eval.  Not necessarily at the same time, obviously. Hopefully, you can find ways within the system to get these costs covered in some way.  There could be many different things happening and without outside help from someone with real expertise and a willingness to help you through this journey, you could be spinning your wheels for years trying to figure out what is happening as your child's self-esteem and ability to function drop.  Don't let that happen!

 

Read The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide.  That might help point you in the right direction.  There are a ton of other books that might also help, but I would probably start with that one.  Good luck!  You are not alone!

 

This is very similar to what we are running in to.  My DD is happy and confident and willing to learn.  She puts forth her best effort and tests "average".  So basically, they just think she's slower to mature and catch on to things -- which is fine, if that's what is really going on...but my gut says there is more to it. 

 

Off to do some more googling. :)

[PeterPan]

I have found the names of a few psych's and am going to research them.  I was able to touch base with a couple people in Canada who have had evals done and it seems like the best route is to book direct, so we will look into that. 

 

Thanks so much for the advice!

Good!  Keep us posted on how it turns out!  :)

[Tokyomarie]

This is very similar to what we are running in to.  My DD is happy and confident and willing to learn.  She puts forth her best effort and tests "average".  So basically, they just think she's slower to mature and catch on to things -- which is fine, if that's what is really going on...but my gut says there is more to it. 

 

Off to do some more googling. :)

 

Presents as "average" in school...."slower to mature."  Well, yes, I described my middle dd that way and used the description as a way to defer seeking help. Ultimately, I finally listened to my Mommy Gut and got her evaluated. Sure enough, I had a very bright little girl who also had some learning challenges. In her case, the two canceled each other out and made her look "average." In reality, she had lots of highs and lots of lows. We needed to deal with the lows before she could soar with her highs.

 

Ds presents differently. For a long time, his challenges made it harder to see his strengths.

[Pen]

Maybe you could make a post on General Discussion forum with "Canada" in the title looking for people with specific experience negotiating the Canadian system, or even with ideas/resources for your province or local area?