Tapestry of Grace Question

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

I've been checking out ToG, looking through the samples and what not, and I have to ask. It seems really expensive for a program that's only going to be covering history, literature, and writing (I know the website includes other things like government, but I wasn't really planning on doing that with my first grader). Am I missing something here? 

[Upward Journey]

Remember that you'll use the instructor's guide multiple years and it covers every grade level.

 

Plus, books are just expensive.

[freesia]

Yes, the idea is that you would use that same year plan 3 times with the child making it $60 for each level.

 

While many happily use it in the primary grades, I switched in middle school and don't really use the lower grammar as written. I think using Sonlight (which I did) or Story of the World with activity book works better and is easier and, in the case of SoTW, less expensive.

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

Have you used it? Does the quality make up for the price? I've been hearing so much about it and I thought it was a unit study. I was just surprised by how many subjects it covers.

[freesia]

Have you used it? Does the quality make up for the price? I've been hearing so much about it and I thought it was a unit study. I was just surprised by how many subjects it covers.

We have used year 1, 2 and are now doing year 3. There is some sense of units within the year plan--we just completed 3 weeks on South America. The literature and history is aligned--either written about or during the time period. Then there are activities having to do with the history. There is some art history and music history. The government (which is not online, but in the manual) is tied in, too. The writing is tied into the history. But there are no science or math activities. (Okay, few, there are occasionally activity books used that have some science.)

 

I was paying around $70 for the Sonlight manuals, so the price overall, was comparable over the long haul. I switched bc I was using Sonlight in the TOG way (adding activities and keeping all my kids together but organizing it myself). The dialectic and rhetoric discussion are really good. But I honestly don't think it would be worth it for first grade. There is no reading instruction or comprehension questions for the younger grades. There are few Read Alouds scheduled. It is not worth it for a list of books to use (some of which are more suited to third graders than first for sure). I still use my Sonlight readers and Read Alouds with my younger kids. I use SoTW (which is alternately scheduled but you don't need a schedule for that). I use SoTW activities as often as the TOG suggested ones. Honestly, I rarely use any of the lower grammar "stuff".

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

We have used year 1, 2 and are now doing year 3. There is some sense of units within the year plan--we just completed 3 weeks on South America. The literature and history is aligned--either written about or during the time period. Then there are activities having to do with the history. There is some art history and music history. The government (which is not online, but in the manual) is tied in, too. The writing is tied into the history. But there are no science or math activities. (Okay, few, there are occasionally activity books used that have some science.)

 

I was paying around $70 for the Sonlight manuals, so the price overall, was comparable over the long haul. I switched bc I was using Sonlight in the TOG way (adding activities and keeping all my kids together but organizing it myself). The dialectic and rhetoric discussion are really good. But I honestly don't think it would be worth it for first grade. There is no reading instruction or comprehension questions for the younger grades. There are few Read Alouds scheduled. It is not worth it for a list of books to use (some of which are more suited to third graders than first for sure). I still use my Sonlight readers and Read Alouds with my younger kids. I use SoTW (which is alternately scheduled but you don't need a schedule for that). I use SoTW activities as often as the TOG suggested ones. Honestly, I rarely use any of the lower grammar "stuff".

 

Thanks! That was very helpful. 

[beth83]

I think it depends on how long you plan on using it. We are using it for kindergarten and I see it as great bang for my buck. Of course things can change, but I have fallen even more in love with it, which I didn't think was possible. We will have four children who will cycle through it, and if we truly use it for all the levels, nothing else is really comparable price-wise.

 

I was planning on Sonlight in the early grade, but I figured that once we got into TOG later, I would have all my kids doing that work. I mean, that is a big plus to me -- everyone working on the same topic. I couldn't justify buying Sonlight when I would later shelve it.

 

The high school program looks very solid, and HS materials are expensive anyway. Might as well start making the investment now, so it is one less thing to buy later.

 

I have to say we are having a great time with it and learning a lot!

[coffeegal]

Have you used it? Does the quality make up for the price? I've been hearing so much about it and I thought it was a unit study. I was just surprised by how many subjects it covers.

I'm using it with all 6 of my children. It really shines in the dialectic and rhetoric years and for large families. The older children have assigned readings, accountability questions, map work, worksheets, discussion questions, and writing assignments. The my 5th grader has his assigned readings, map work, and worksheets, but we sit down and work on his lap book instead of having discussions. The lower grammar literature is perfect for read alouds for my preschoolers. For me, it was worth every penny spent as it increased the quality of our homeschool while decreasing my stress. Also, I will be using it for another 15 years or so.

 

It is expensive when you're considering it just for a young child. I did SOTW with my older children when they were that age and was pleased with the result. Next year I'll be folding in my preschoolers, and we'll be using SOTW as our primary resource although we will be using TOG's schedule.

[TXMary2]

It is pricey on the front end, but it is worth it to me. I will be using it all the way through high school. I use our library or buy used books at reasonable prices so it isn't too expensive in the end.

 

As for it "only" covering history, literature and writing - it is more than that. It also covers government, philosophy, fine arts, geography and worldview. 12 years of schooling all those subjects, if you were to start at LG.

 

For history, the books are great, but it is also simple to substitute books because of the themed nature of each week.  I love that vocabulary, famous people and timeline events are all included as well.  It isn't just a word list either, a glossary of simple definitions and descriptions are included.  The teacher pages include a wealth of information as well.

 

The geography assignments are very good.  The fine arts activities are numerous and include activities for every learning style. 

 

The Writing Aids program includes great writing assignments and a comprehensive instruction book on how to teach all the genres and different types of writing for 12 levels.

 

There is nothing "only" about it. It is rich, in depth, thoughtful and high quality.  I will admit it isn't for everyone and that it takes considerable effort to get it rolling and find a groove, but it was worth the time investment for me.

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

It is pricey on the front end, but it is worth it to me. I will be using it all the way through high school. I use our library or buy used books at reasonable prices so it isn't too expensive in the end.

 

As for it "only" covering history, literature and writing - it is more than that. It also covers government, philosophy, fine arts, geography and worldview. 12 years of schooling all those subjects, if you were to start at LG.

 

For history, the books are great, but it is also simple to substitute books because of the themed nature of each week.  I love that vocabulary, famous people and timeline events are all included as well.  It isn't just a word list either, a glossary of simple definitions and descriptions are included.  The teacher pages include a wealth of information as well.

 

The geography assignments are very good.  The fine arts activities are numerous and include activities for every learning style. 

 

The Writing Aids program includes great writing assignments and a comprehensive instruction book on how to teach all the genres and different types of writing for 12 levels.

 

There is nothing "only" about it. It is rich, in depth, thoughtful and high quality.  I will admit it isn't for everyone and that it takes considerable effort to get it rolling and find a groove, but it was worth the time investment for me.

 

 

I hope I didn't offend anyone by saying "only". I'm referring to what's useful for us as a family at this point. I had no intentions of formally teaching my 1st grader government. 

[squirtymomma]

I am using/have used Sonlight and SOTW so far.  But I can see that in a couple of years, when we've been through the history cycle once, and I'll have a 6th grader, 4th grader, and 1st grader, it will be worth having something that will keep us all together for history but with resources for each level.  *And* something that will begin to challenge my oldest as she transitions to the dialectic stage.  I think TOG is very very valuable for families with kids at multiple levels and for dialectic/rhetoric stage students.  I am getting a free unit that they are offering this month to help me get a feel for it. 

 

However, I think it's overkill for 1st grade. :) 

[beth83]

I am using/have used Sonlight and SOTW so far.  But I can see that in a couple of years, when we've been through the history cycle once, and I'll have a 6th grader, 4th grader, and 1st grader, it will be worth having something that will keep us all together for history but with resources for each level.  *And* something that will begin to challenge my oldest as she transitions to the dialectic stage.  I think TOG is very very valuable for families with kids at multiple levels and for dialectic/rhetoric stage students.  I am getting a free unit that they are offering this month to help me get a feel for it. 

 

However, I think it's overkill for 1st grade. :)

 

I definitely think it is.  But, I don't think one buys the curriculum in first grade to use EVERYTHING in it from the start.  One buys it, because they probably will be buying it at some point.  You get your feet wet, pick what you want, and get accustomed to the curriculum.  You provide TOG on level for a 1st grader, which isn't utilizing everything you get.

 

Or, you could buy material for first grade, material for second grade, material for third grade, etc, etc, and then buy TOG for the upper levels.  Then material you previously used for lower grades get unused now, or you are teaching multiple programs at one time.  This all makes me head spin.

 

I much rather buy TOG in the beginning, once and for all, and be done with it.  But I am also one to make tweaks to any program I buy.  I look at TOG as fitting any season we are in.  We can do a little, we can do a lot, but at least I am only having to wrap my head around one program.

[Tracy]

If it seems like a lot of money for your 1st grader, then it probably is.  We are on our 4th year of TOG, and it is completely worth the money, because my kids live and breathe history and geography.  While they were playing yesterday, they were fighting for women's suffrage, and this morning they were negotiating a peace treaty between Tanzania, Madagascar and Australia.  I know that with TOG (using SOTW as an alternate resource), I won't run out of things to teach them.  

 

My dh is a high school teacher and recently came home with a history textbook from school.  There was almost nothing in that book my kids didn't already know.  I need something like TOG that feeds their desire for more in-depth history analysis.  

[boscopup]

I've been checking out ToG, looking through the samples and what not, and I have to ask. It seems really expensive for a program that's only going to be covering history, literature, and writing (I know the website includes other things like government, but I wasn't really planning on doing that with my first grader). Am I missing something here? 

 

Depends on what you're comparing it to.

 

I'm doing the free unit being offered this month (if you haven't seen that yet, it gives you a much better picture of how the program works when you see an entire unit). You can pick any unit of any year. Great deal. I chose Year 4, Unit 1, since we were about 11 weeks into Sonlight Core E (we did Cores D and P4/5 last year).

 

We've used TOG for one week with UG and LG students (4th and 1st grade). I have drooled over TOG since my oldest was in 1st grade, but I thought it was going to be too much for ME at that point. I think that was a correct assumption. Frankly, I couldn't have handled Sonlight at that point either. Now, this first week has gone great, and I'm so looking forward to continuing! Comparing to Sonlight... there is no comparison. Frankly, I find Sonlight to be not worth the money (talking IG cost only, not books), since I wasn't using their LA, and their notes are not that great (and I wouldn't trust anything John Holzmann has written). So I was essentially using Sonlight as a book list. And it was fine for that, but not worth it to buy an IG new. Then I switch over to TOG this week, and my kids are in the same place without much work from me (I was trying to match up my 1st grader to my 4th grader, getting library books for the 1st grader... it wasn't working well... TOG has done all that work for me). They've also had SO MUCH in there that was worth much more than Sonlight. My LG student learned about Henry Ford and the Wright Brothers. He also read The Story of Little Babaji for literature. The literature worksheet had him finding sentences in the book that had a color word, a number word, a size word, and an emotion word. That was perfect for my 1st grader. For geography, he learned about different land forms, and he made a salt dough map to show the land forms he learned. He also labeled all the continents and oceans of the world on a paper map. After reading, he decided he wanted to be an airplane, and then he wanted to know how airplanes fly, so we read a book that explains that (ie, rabbit trail ;) ). We also made the connection with the Cars movie... "Lizzie" in there is a Model T, and the Model T's nickname was "Tin Lizzie". :lol: So that was my first grader's history for the week. It was a good week. My 4th grader, meanwhile, also read about Henry Ford and the Wright Brothers, but also read about Theodore Roosevelt, the Spanish-American War, and Albert Einstein. There was a history response page on the Loom that I used for Einstein, where he gets to note interesting facts about Einstein's childhood/family life, write what Einstein's contribution to history was, tell what his hopes/desires were, and note a quote from Einstein (note that this wasn't exactly a TOG assignment, but it was a page provided by TOG to use with any biography for this level child in any week). For literature, he read The Wonderful Wizard of Oz and had to write down sentences that contained certain words in each chapter. Like the LG assignment, this was teaching him to look for things in the reading, rather than passively reading straight through. This is preparing them for literary analysis later on. In geography, he studied land forms like his brother, except he had more to learn. He also did a salt dough map to demonstrate his land form knowledge. The family read-aloud has been a book about child labor in the early 1900s, which has been very interesting - the kids are feeling very blessed to not have to do the dangerous and strenuous work that kids did at that time! This week has been very rich for both students, and it was easy for me to prepare, as I could just read the teacher's notes and know what everyone was talking about. The threads at the beginning of the week help me pick out which things each level is learning. So when I read about Henry Ford in the teacher's notes, I could see in the threads that both students were studying him, while Einstein was only be studied by the UG student. Those things are handy to know ahead of time.

 

Now would I recommend starting TOG in 1st grade? That depends. I personally could not have handled it at that point, but many do handle it just fine. I wasn't confident enough in my teaching abilities at that point to know what to cut out, and you do have to cut things out of TOG. No one does it ALL. You aren't meant to. There is so much meat there. At the LG level, you have a lot of good books, and the activities and literature are excellent. But yes, $170 (for DE version) is probably a bit much to pay JUST for 1st grade. On the other hand, if you plan to use it all the way through and are very confident that this is what you want long term, it's a great deal to pay $170 for 3+ years of history/literature/geography/etc. (that one year plan will be used by the same child 3 times). Note that I'm not including book costs in there. Books cost money, regardless of your curriculum. TOG uses a TON of books. I think it was probably designed with the intention of using a library. My library has all the books I need for the free unit I got. For long term use, there are some books I would buy (the ones being used for many, many weeks), but most I don't need to buy at the LG/UG levels. The unit is history driven, not resource driven. So as long as you get a book that contains the information in the threads, you're good to go. Now I understand that the D and R levels are a little harder to do without the exact books, but it seems like as long as you get books that are thorough, you should be able to find the information you need from any books of the appropriate level. And obviously literature books need to be the exact books if you want to use the literature student pages. But much of their literature is classic literature that your library is likely to have.

 

We did SOTW in 1st grade (after first trying Biblioplan and finding it to be too much for us at that time). SOTW was great for that age! We had a good experience, it was easy to use, and it didn't require us to spend hours on history. Great choice for that age. :) Now that my oldest is 4th grade, TOG is more useful to me than it would have been when he was in 1st grade. And my 1st grader is getting a lot out of the TOG studies. It's just that I really am using it for the older child, kwim?

 

So at this point in my family's schooling, yes, TOG will be worth it to me. It is streamlining things for me in the history department. It's planning history and literature that correlate, yet the literature isn't all historical fiction (a la Sonlight - I was sooooo burnt out on historical fiction). They do what SWB recommends - using stories about or written during the time period of the period you're studying in history. You hit more good classics that way. Sonlight has great classics in their early cores, but once they start meshing literature with history, they use the literature *as* extra history, and it's mostly historical fiction. There are writing assignments to go along with history. I won't use every one, but there are some that will be a good fit, and those assignments are already laid out for me if I want to use them. And if my library doesn't have the book they recommend, they have alternate books listed as well as the call number of the original book, so I can look on the library shelf and see if something similar will work just as well. We did that with Henry Ford for LG this week - my library didn't have that exact book, but they had a couple other books that looked good. One of those was probably equivalent to the originally recommended book, as it went through Ford's life in short chapter format that a 1st grader can understand (I'm reading the books aloud to this student - he isn't an independent reader yet).

 

Sorry, that's a novel. :lol: We've just had the best history week we've had in a very long time. :D

[Kathryn]

I agree with everyone else. Would it be worth t for one year? Probably not. But, if you start in the grammar stage, you're going to use that year plan three times per child. With DE, upgrades are free forever. I purchased my first year plan last year. The child I'm pregnant with right now will graduate in 2032 (yikes!). That's twenty years of use for the price of four year plans. That's worth it to me. If you start with a grammar student, you realize that it's an investment in the future. I could just use SOTW now, but I'm happy getting to know TOG now instead of later and I'm glad I didn't take the advice of waiting. Our history, literature, and art are so much richer than they would be otherwise. It also seems to strange to me to invest in something else for the early years for your first that won't get used again if you're planning on switching later (as was suggested to me when I was deciding whether to stick with Sonlight or make the switch).

[Upward Journey]

I agree with everyone else. Would it be worth t for one year? Probably not. But, if you start in the grammar stage, you're going to use that year plan three times per child. With DE, upgrades are free forever. I purchased my first year plan last year. The child I'm pregnant with right now will graduate in 2032 (yikes!). That's twenty years of use for the price of four year plans. That's worth it to me. If you start with a grammar student, you realize that it's an investment in the future. I could just use SOTW now, but I'm happy getting to know TOG now instead of later and I'm glad I didn't take the advice of waiting. Our history, literature, and art are so much richer than they would be otherwise. It also seems to strange to me to invest in something else for the early years for your first that won't get used again if you're planning on switching later (as was suggested to me when I was deciding whether to stick with Sonlight or make the switch).

 

 

I think this is probably the biggest benefit from starting out with TOG from the beginning!!!

[TXMary2]

I hope I didn't offend anyone by saying "only". I'm referring to what's useful for us as a family at this point. I had no intentions of formally teaching my 1st grader government. 

 

No offense taken, I was just pointing out it was definitely more than what you mentioned. Government is for the Rhetoric level anyway.  :tongue_smilie:

[Saddlemomma]

I just started using TOG Y2 this year with my 5th grade DD.  We love it.  It covers: History, Geography, Writing (I bought the Writing Aids & Map , Aides components) Church History, Crafts/Activities/Art,, and Literature.  I'm incorporating Latina Christiana w/their grammar program, Horizon's Math, and Chemistry to round out her classes.

 

The Writing Aids program was a big surprise to me!  It's very thorough and my DD is already reaping the rewards.  They begin with dictation, sentence building, paragraphs, report writing, informal/formal outlines....all the way up to high school research papers and theses.  It's all broken down in small chunks so the kids can build a strong foundation year after year.  All of the classes are tied to the time period you are studying.

 

I'm just using it for one student and think the price is actually less than what I would usually spend by purchasing different curricula for each subject.  I'm actually saving money.  You don't need to purchase all the books they suggest either.  I have just been purchasing those books used 3 weeks or more.  Most of the books I'm finding in the library.  For instance, for Y2U2, I've only had to purchase $26.00 worth of books because I can either get the recommended book in the library, I already have the book (they use a lot of Yesterday's Classics, and I purchased the whole ebook collection), or I can easily substitute other library books for those used 1-2 weeks suggested by TOG. 

 

I only purchase the DE edition.  So, if I looked at purchasing that for a year, it's $170.00 for 5 classes.  If you want to add in Writing Aids, that would be an additional one-time purchase of $40.00 (You will never have to buy that again).  So you're looking at $210 for 6 classes for a year. Map Aids is $25/year, if you want all the levels.  Evaluations (tests & quizes) costs $50/year for all levels, or you can choose just one level for substantial savings. However, you don't need all those extras if you have the time to make up your own tests, grab map outlines off the internet (which they offer some sites for just that), or have your own writing program. Not only that, but no more researching supplemental material for classes either.  TOG provides a plethora of those for each unit through website links and free online books you can access anytime. They even have a site linked that will line up SOTW to the TOG schedule.  This feature alone saves me a TON of time.

 

Like I said, this is going to end up costing me $280 for a full year for 6 classes (not including the books I do buy).  Even with adding Math, Latin, Science & Grammar, I'm still saving about half of what I used to spend.

[TracyP]

I started with TOG when my oldest was in Kindergarten. Yes, it was expensive for K-3. I am now starting the second round and am SO GLAD I started when I did. Now all I have to buy is books for each year and it does not feel expensive at all. Purchasing TOG was not a financial burden and I was as sure as one can be that I wanted to use it all the way through high school. Buying TOG in the younger years was a good decision for us.