Very insecure - how do I insure we are hitting the right skills? (5th grader)

[abrightmom]

Sixth year of homeschooling and I'm befuddled. I've read WTM and many other books over and over and find that they all swirl in my brain and I'm unable to summarize what I should be doing. So many Moms project such confidence in teaching writing and skills while I still feel like I am spinning.

 

Schooling with 4 students IS proving challenging. It's a LOT to adequately and thoroughly cover all of the basics, attend to needs, feed the bellies, and deal with the attitudes. I can barely keep up. I am constrained by the clock and my available physical energy. My oldest child, a VERY capable boy, is a slow worker. He's in another world most of the time and his pace of life is nothing like mine. I can hardly contain the scream that I want to let out most days .... My goals for him are high but reality dictates that I scale way back so he can be successful. 

 

I honestly do NOT know what skills to hit and when. I've read the WTM numerous times and listened to SWB's lectures. Somehow I'm not transferring this to a concise to do list (and we don't love the WTM way for some subjects so perhaps that's where my disconnect is). I should be getting it but I am NOT.

 

When and How do I teach the following?

 

**Note taking. I have NO clue. 

 

**Outlining. SWB does this in history studies but the only way to follow WTM's recommendations is to use her resource (Kingfisher I think?). I don't know what resources to use in assigning this. Rod & Staff and WTM both teach outlining but I don't know what to apply the skill to in order to practice it.

 

**Research skills. Where does one begin with this? I don't have any idea as to a scope and sequence. When do I start? How do I start? Is there a resource that will walk me through this?

 

**Reading. My kids read a lot. But, I'm struggling to provide the right type of reading material that will insure they move forward in their skills. I listened to one of SWB's lectures and for 5th grade she mentioned doing all I can to move my child's reading forward. The ONLY thing I can think of is to pull every booklist I know and provide all of those books for my son to read. Beyond that, what should I be doing?

 

**Is vocabulary study important? Should he be narrating in 5th grade?

 

**How MUCH writing should he do? Frankly, when listening to SWB's middle grades writing lecture it sounded like SO little writing (and easy to do). Then, I open up Writing With Skill and practically pass out. It seems like SO. MUCH. MORE and intended by SWB for the 5th/6th grader. I'd much rather write within content subjects then have all of our writing be a separate thing. 

 

**There are so many TYPES Of writing. I don't know what should be taught 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. and how often these types or forms should be practiced. 

 

This new season of homeschooling is daunting. Setting up appropriate expectations and figuring out what skills to teach, how to teach them, and how often to practice them has me stumped. 

 

In another thread I read about how 5th grade is a good time to shore up skills. It sounded spot on but then I sat back and asked, "What skills?". What should I be shoring up? 

 

HOW DOES A HOMESCHOOL MOM FIGURE THIS STUFF OUT ON HER OWN?? DO I PICK A GURU TO LISTEN TO AND DO WHAT HE OR SHE SAYS? WHOSE STANDARD DO I FOLLOW? HOW DO I KNOW WHEN IT IS ENOUGH? 

 

 

[Mommy22alyns]

Subbing because I need to know too!

[sagira]

I'm also in my sixth year homeschooling with my oldest being a fifth grader. Instead of four, I have three children.

 

I was exactly like you a few weeks ago. Actually doing school made me see what is important and he needs to know.

 

My goal for him this year is to write 2-3 well organized, well written paragraphs. I am teaching with Serl's ILL (which teaches outlining and has ramped up the writing this second section) and I have him do two periods of Wordsmith Apprentice on Fridays - typed assignments. It's working out great.

 

In History, we're using SOTW 4, I have him type up the most important facts, and from these he builds a coherent narration.

 

Main goals for this year:

 

- Good written narrations

- Get accostumed to more writing across the curriculum

- To be able to write an expository paragraph or two

- To be able to read and understand nonfiction

- To notice trends and broad themes in history and literature

- Two literature book analyses

- Multiplication facts and division facts down cold

- Conversational Spanish

- Fine tuning music and art appreciation

- Improved art and piano skills

- Learning how to keep a science journal

[abrightmom]

I'm also in my sixth year homeschooling with my oldest being a fifth grader. Instead of four, I have three children.

 

I was exactly like you a few weeks ago. Actually doing school made me see what is important and he needs to know.

 

My goal for him this year is to write 2-3 well organized, well written paragraphs. I am teaching with Serl's ILL (which teaches outlining and has ramped up the writing this second section) and I have him do two periods of Wordsmith Apprentice on Fridays - typed assignments. It's working out great.

 

In History, we're using SOTW 4, I have him type up the most important facts, and from these he builds a coherent narration.

 

Main goals for this year:

 

- Good written narrations Are you using any other than history/SOTW for this? Is this where you are practicing the 2-3 paragraph goal?

- Get accostumed to more writing across the curriculum How are you working toward this? I'd say this is a goal for me but then I turn around and go "Uh, so what do I DO to achieve this?"

- To be able to write an expository paragraph or two I know I am an idiot (or at least I feel like one). HOW is this different from a written narration? Honestly, I have such a disconnect trying to put types of writing under category headings. A narrative summary is basically telling back what you just read and can be done in a CM/detailed way or an SWB/summary way. An expository paragraph is what exactly? A description? Is Wordsmith Apprentice working on this?

- To be able to read and understand nonfiction I've not pondered this as a goal. HOW are you going about this and what prompted the setting of this goal? Does your kiddo struggle with this?

- To notice trends and broad themes in history and literature Again, what is the plan of attack here?

- Two literature book analyses Are you using SWB's method laid out in WTM? It seems quite doable at the 5th grade level.

- Multiplication facts and division facts down cold Amen to this. Math Facts disappeared from his consciousness and we're starting over. 

- Conversational Spanish

- Fine tuning music and art appreciation

- Improved art and piano skills

- Learning how to keep a science journal  Is this a nature journal with sketches, labels, journal entries? 

This is lovely. Did you decide this on your own or based on counsel from somewhere (i.e. WTM)? I have a few questions and I am attempting to insert them in your quote in color. ;) 

 

Trying to choose a history program has been hard. There are a couple of very good options that also provide reading lists, map work, and worthwhile writing assignments. My rebellious side doesn't want any of them as I have my "own ideas" but these brilliant ideas don't transfer well to day to day or skill building. I am going to have to go with something prepared in order to focus on skills ...   :o

 

As an aside, I have been devouring those Wordsmith Apprentice samples this week based upon some other glowing reviews and I am considering it as my 5th grader's course for now. It looks quite doable with a combination of "at the elbow" and "student directed" learning. It's a good idea to pair it with ILL's work though we've never used PLL/ILL. :) 

[Clear Creek]

 

When and How do I teach the following?

 

**Note taking. I have NO clue. R&S English 5 covers this really well.  Wait until you get there, and then assign a few more reports between that point and the end of the year from topics the student chooses  (they walk the student through from taking notes to writing a short report about the topic).

 

**Outlining. SWB does this in history studies but the only way to follow WTM's recommendations is to use her resource (Kingfisher I think?). I don't know what resources to use in assigning this. Rod & Staff and WTM both teach outlining but I don't know what to apply the skill to in order to practice it.  The Famous Men of .... series works amazingly well for this.

 

**Research skills. Where does one begin with this? I don't have any idea as to a scope and sequence. When do I start? How do I start? Is there a resource that will walk me through this?  R&S English 5

 

**Reading. My kids read a lot. But, I'm struggling to provide the right type of reading material that will insure they move forward in their skills. I listened to one of SWB's lectures and for 5th grade she mentioned doing all I can to move my child's reading forward. The ONLY thing I can think of is to pull every booklist I know and provide all of those books for my son to read. Beyond that, what should I be doing?  I used MP Lit for 5th grade and the required reading *really* stretched my daughter.

 

**Is vocabulary study important? Should he be narrating in 5th grade?  The only vocab study we did/do is unfamiliar words in history and lit.

 

**How MUCH writing should he do? Frankly, when listening to SWB's middle grades writing lecture it sounded like SO little writing (and easy to do). Then, I open up Writing With Skill and practically pass out. It seems like SO. MUCH. MORE and intended by SWB for the 5th/6th grader. I'd much rather write within content subjects then have all of our writing be a separate thing.   I still don't have a good grasp of this. :tongue_smilie:

 

**There are so many TYPES Of writing. I don't know what should be taught 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. and how often these types or forms should be practiced.  I am still trying to figure this out, too!  At the moment with my 4th and 6th grader I am using Writing & Rhetoric from CAP (my 6th grader at an accelerated  pace) along with the writing lessons in R&S.

 

This new season of homeschooling is daunting. Setting up appropriate expectations and figuring out what skills to teach, how to teach them, and how often to practice them has me stumped. 

 

In another thread I read about how 5th grade is a good time to shore up skills. It sounded spot on but then I sat back and asked, "What skills?". What should I be shoring up? 

 

HOW DOES A HOMESCHOOL MOM FIGURE THIS STUFF OUT ON HER OWN?? DO I PICK A GURU TO LISTEN TO AND DO WHAT HE OR SHE SAYS? WHOSE STANDARD DO I FOLLOW? HOW DO I KNOW WHEN IT IS ENOUGH? My only advice is to keep working with your students at a pace where you can see results.  As far as gurus, there are several posters here whose posts I always pay close attention to, if only to give me something to ponder.  If you go to wherever the legendary posts thread is, you will see their names come up frequently.

 

 

 

[abrightmom]

Clear Creek,

Thanks! Rod and Staff has more than I realized! I look these resource over and miss a lot and it frustrates me so much!

Famous Men has been on my short list. 

 

You have hit on 2 or 3 key things that I have been thinking would help despite my struggles and insecurities. Those include Rod & Staff English (I am currently having a temper tantrum with it though), MP's lit, and Famous Men. My husband says that I have good intuition re: the kids but lack confidence and follow through. I spend too much time fretting and being indecisive only to discover that my instincts are good. Follow through is not my strong suit and is my highest goal in teaching this school year. 

With MP's lit did you work thru the guides? I have put the 5th grade lit and FMOMA in my cart in preparation for studying Rome to the Reformation though I trying to iron out wrinkles in our workload before finalizing. I am terrible at using samples to determine if a resource would work for us. The lit guides look heavy on comp questions. Is there more to it? What is the value in tiring out those writing muscles to answer comp questions? ETA: My assessment of MP lit has changed after perusing the samples on MP's website here .  There's more to it than comp questions and it is feasible to make some of those comp questions oral to lessen the writing requirement. 

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

I hear you with the dilemna of writing for 5th grade.  The WTM/SWB writing lecture reccomendations seem like not enough writing.  WWS is SO MUCH MORE and doesn't seem like it's levelled correctly for a 5th grader (it's doable, but for most not as written - it requires more parental involvement and some of the selections are way over a 5th grader's head).  I have been wondering for 2 years now why the disconnect between the recommendations for 5th grade writing, and WWS.

 

I think your student will probably be fine if you follow the WTM writing suggestions. If they spend a year outlining and summarizing their history reading and writing about books that they read, they will be developing their skills.  If you do that for a few months and it seems easy, move to 2 level outlines, and start having them write summaries from their own outlines (7th-8th grade recommendations).  You can outline other things besides Kingfisher - SOTW 3 & 4 are outlineable, as are other texts and some nonfiction books.  What are you using for history? You will no doubt be able to outline and summarize from that.

 

You might get something like Kathryn Stout's Comprehensive Composition to use as a scope and sequence, it's very thorough and tells how to do each type of writing (and when) then you just use your own materials/assignments.

 

As far as reading, keep him reading, and start to add book discussions as described in WTM, and then every 3rd book or so have him write about the book (after discussing it with you).  This doesn't have to be onerous, but will help him move to the next level.

 

I liked doing vocabulary study using Caesar's English from MCT, because for me the purpose of vocab was so my dd could start to handle more advanced literature, and this program is perfect for that because it teaches the most frequently used "hard" words that the child is likely to encounter in their junior high and high school reading.

 

I wouldn't do a lot of narrations (i.e. tell back the whole story) in 5th grade, but I would make sure that summarizing skills (picking out the main points and retelling them coherently/concisely) are solid.  If they aren't 5th grade is the perfect time to cement this.

 

Take a deep breath.  I think 5th grade is a major transition year for you and for your student.  They don't just wake up one morning "in" the logic stage, but they are progressing to a place where they can handle more complexity, more depth, more analysis.  This development won't be linear, and it won't be the same in all subjects, but you will see it happening and it's very exciting.

 

I can say that my new 6th grader is a totally different critter than she was a year ago - much more able to do independent work, to solve problems, to read more complex material, to stay on task, to write about what she's reading.  She's taking more ownership and interest in her education this year. Working on skills in 5th grade has helped that happen.  Remember to breathe!

[sagira]

Main goals for this year:

 

- Good written narrations Are you using any other than history/SOTW for this? Is this where you are practicing the 2-3 paragraph goal?

 

Yes indeed. History is ds' second favorite subject, and I know that writing in this context (actually typing) is going to be associate writing as more pleasant for him. From history I hope to move to literature, book reports, and science but for now we're keeping it this way.

 

 

 

- Get accostumed to more writing across the curriculum How are you working toward this? I'd say this is a goal for me but then I turn around and go "Uh, so what do I DO to achieve this?"

 

I find that compartmentalizing, or doing writing in bite-sized pieces that don't always look like writing, works. E.g., ds' favorite subject right now is science. He really likes the idea of writing his own science journal/notebook, with a table of contents and all. I matter-of-factly ask him to choose between a few topics for what to include in his notebook, and he likes to show off what he learned. He doesn't balk at this writing, and he does it by hand.

 

In English/ILL, the lessons have increased in length and writing, but it was gradual and entertaining so he doesn't mind the work. He either types or writes by hand, depending on the complexity.

 

He likes the Evan-Moor Geography workbook (7 Continents: Asia), and he completes 3-4 pages at a time without fuss.

 

In WA he types, and the assignments are interesting, so here he gets more writing again.

 

- To be able to write an expository paragraph or two I know I am an idiot (or at least I feel like one). HOW is this different from a written narration?

 

Explaining for instance how to play War or how to tie a knot or how to do a taekwondo form. Basically a how-to of something he's familiar with.

 

Honestly, I have such a disconnect trying to put types of writing under category headings. A narrative summary is basically telling back what you just read and can be done in a CM/detailed way or an SWB/summary way. An expository paragraph is what exactly? A description? Is Wordsmith Apprentice working on this?

 

I'm not sure if WA will be working on this, I believe it may. I like WA a lot.

 

- To be able to read and understand nonfiction I've not pondered this as a goal. HOW are you going about this and what prompted the setting of this goal?

 

Lewelma's posts on science goals directly prompted me to work on the skill of reading and extracting information from nonfiction that is not a story. I am more likely to have him summarize in this area.

 

Does your kiddo struggle with this?

 

He's doing well, but I want to be intentional about it.

 

- To notice trends and broad themes in history and literature Again, what is the plan of attack here?

 

We discuss. I ask open-ended questions and leading questions that so far successfully have been engaging his logical thinking. What and how questions help me to this end.

 

 

- Two literature book analyses Are you using SWB's method laid out in WTM? It seems quite doable at the 5th grade level.

 

I have not read/her recommendations as of yet. I do own TWTM, maybe I should check. Or is it in audio lectures? I own Critical Conditioning, a Literature guide of sorts I plan to put to good use.

 

- Learning how to keep a science journal Is this a nature journal with sketches, labels, journal entries?

 

We have both a nature journal with sketches and occasional labeling, and he is keeping a science notebook at the suggestions and guidelines per BFSU, with page numbers and a table of contents.

[abrightmom]

Rose,

 

How do you teach summarizing skills without using WWE? Is there any other way? Summarizing is quite difficult for me.

 

Thank-you for reminding me about Comprehensive Composition! It resides on a bookshelf in my home.

 

Breathing is in order alongside the coffee and cream. ;). What I am finding most challenging is teaching 4 grades. Two I can do thoroughly and well. With the 3rd kid I begin to lose it and now with #4 coming up the ranks I am SO outnumbered. Many subjects need me at the elbow and I want to be there digging in with my kids. Reality says I can't teach all subjects this way and not at so many levels. I don't know how to resolve this so I am still seeking the right combination of curriculum, methods, etc. to manage well here.

[texasmama]

(((Hug)))

 

Are you inside my head? ;)

[sagira]

Hugs from me as well! I'm a bit overwhelmed homeschooling two with a toddler running around, I can't imagine actually homeschooling three.

 

As for summarizing, I tell ds10 to tell me the who, what, where, when, and why. Everything else is just icing on the cake and details to add to these key facts.

[Mandy in TN]

Hugs from me as well! I'm a bit overwhelmed homeschooling two with a toddler running around, I can't imagine actually homeschooling three.

 

As for summarizing, I tell ds10 to tell me the who, what, where, when, and why. Everything else is just icing on the cake and details to add to these key facts.

 

For me-

 

It is no problem homeschooling several kids. OTOH- it takes quite a bit of moxie (and organization and patience doesn't hurt either) to homeschool 1 child plus 1 toddler! :p

Mandy

 

ETA- Seriously, the time between when a child becomes mobile and before he or she is able to join in with schooling on a consistent basis for longer than 10 minutes is the most difficult time- particularly if he or she is a noisy, busy, rambunctious little critter. 

[Mandy in TN]

I honestly do NOT know what skills to hit and when. I've read the WTM numerous times and listened to SWB's lectures. Somehow I'm not transferring this to a concise to do list (and we don't love the WTM way for some subjects so perhaps that's where my disconnect is). I should be getting it but I am NOT.

 

Since WTM isn’t the perfect fit, it sounds like you need to write out a homeschool philosophy for your home. It is important to know why you are homeschooling, because it keeps you from wanting to purchase every new product. It narrows the focus so to speak. It also helps to have long term goals, because it doesn’t matter how fast you are running if you are going in the wrong direction or, conversely, it is as the Cheshire Cat told Alice.

 

"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"

"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.

"I don't much care where---" said Alice.

"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.

"---So long as I get somewhere," Alice added as an explanation.

"Oh you're sure to do that," said the Cat, "if you only walk long enough."

 

Here is a good thread where we discussed philosophy and goals.

 

When and How do I teach the following? Doodle is my 10yo 5^th grader and this is what we are doing.

 

**Note taking. I have NO clue. 

 Last year my ds used the Science Daybook from Great Source. It is a write in reader that helps guide children in underlining, note taking, and needling out what is important. This year he is using EMC’s Write-In Reader. The Write-In Reader again guides children in underlining, note taking, and needling out what is important, but it contains very explicit instructions and also covers literary terms and such. This is what we are doing, because my goal is to have ds able to study from a textbook by the time he is able to take college classes and I felt that this was a very guided soft introduction working toward this long-term goal.

 

**Outlining. SWB does this in history studies but the only way to follow WTM's recommendations is to use her resource (Kingfisher I think?). I don't know what resources to use in assigning this. Rod & Staff and WTM both teach outlining but I don't know what to apply the skill to in order to practice it.

I am primarily interested in outlining as a way to organize information for college papers. There are other ways to organize information (diagrams and flow charts and such). Because my goal is primarily to teach Doodle to organize information, I am not married to outlining as the only tool. The EMC Write-in Reader does some of this and in the past Doodle has used IEW and outlined some, but this year I am not worrying about outlining. He is taking a writing class from Write at Home and I do not see outlining on the syllabus this year.  

 

**Research skills. Where does one begin with this? I don't have any idea as to a scope and sequence. When do I start? How do I start? Is there a resource that will walk me through this?

I like how IEW TWSS teaches writing research reports and I have taken this in and made it my own. It is how I have had Doodle do research in the past and it is how I taught my big boys. However, Doodle is taking the Middle School Course 1 from Write at Home this year and I am trying to chill. I admit I have toyed with some research ideas for history or science to wrap up the year after the Write at Home course is finished. However, Doodle isn’t interested in being a writer and (unless he changes his mind) my goal long-term is again just preparing him for college papers.

 

OTOH- researching for other things (like looking for a cake recipe, to find information about the Planck satellite, to find the latest battle strategies for an online game, or to identify the spider in the front yard), these are things we just do naturally as a part of life. Doodle does these things independently at this point. 

 

**Reading. My kids read a lot. But, I'm struggling to provide the right type of reading material that will insure they move forward in their skills. I listened to one of SWB's lectures and for 5th grade she mentioned doing all I can to move my child's reading forward. The ONLY thing I can think of is to pull every booklist I know and provide all of those books for my son to read. Beyond that, what should I be doing?

If you feel like you are stuck in a rut and not hitting different genres, you could use something like Drawn into the Heart of Reading. We are using the EMC Write-In Reader to hit different genres and to easily cover literary terms. We are also using Evan-Moor Read and Understand Poetry. As a long-term goal, I want Doodle to be able to analyze literature in a way appropriate for a college bound student.

 

However, I also want him to be able to see the big picture of how different works are similar and how they speak of the human condition. I want him to enjoy literature at a depth that really speaks to him and impacts who he is. I want him to be able to use written information to help him form ideas about the world. I agree with Charlotte Mason who said, “Therefore, children should be taught, as they become mature enough to understand such teaching, that the chief responsibility which rests on them as persons is the acceptance or rejection of ideas. To help them in this choice we give them principles of conduct, and a wide range of the knowledge fitted to them.†To this end, we read a wide range of living books in various genres, at various reading levels, and on various topics.  

 

**Is vocabulary study important? Should he be narrating in 5th grade?

Ds narrates and we discuss what he is reading and what we are reading together. We discuss words he doesn’t understand when he comes across them in his reading. This year he is using MCP Spelling Workout F and MCP Phonics and Word Study F, but no vocabulary program. If we were to study Latin, I probably wouldn’t use a vocabulary program. At this point, I am considering starting Vocabulary from Classical Roots next year instead of Latin. I took a semester of etymology in high school. It was basically a study of Latin and Greek bases, suffixes, and prefixes, and I really do think that it helped me to understand new words. I don’t know that I am interested in vocabulary word lists type programs. I don’t know that Doodle is the type of child who will incorporate word list vocabulary out of context into his personal vocabulary.

 

**How MUCH writing should he do? Frankly, when listening to SWB's middle grades writing lecture it sounded like SO little writing (and easy to do). Then, I open up Writing With Skill and practically pass out. It seems like SO. MUCH. MORE and intended by SWB for the 5th/6th grader. I'd much rather write within content subjects then have all of our writing be a separate thing. 

**There are so many TYPES Of writing. I don't know what should be taught 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. and how often these types or forms should be practiced. 

Doodle is doing short written narrations for history (like a couple of sentences per several pages of book). He does short answers for his science, poetry, Write-In Reader, geography, etc. This is the extent of his writing in his content subjects. He is also taking his writing course. Long term, I would like to see Doodle able to express himself well in writing. Of course, I also don’t want college writing be a burden. However, rather than ramping up or shoring up, right now I am trying to get a handle on appropriate expectations. My older two were already in high school by the time I started teaching Doodle to write and I think I turned him off to writing. We needed outside help. Last spring we used Time4Writing and this year Write at Home. Honestly, other than an occasional research project, I don’t know that I will teach writing to this child again. I may at some point, but currently I have no plan for that.

 

This new season of homeschooling is daunting. Setting up appropriate expectations and figuring out what skills to teach, how to teach them, and how often to practice them has me stumped. 

 In another thread I read about how 5th grade is a good time to shore up skills. It sounded spot on but then I sat back and asked, "What skills?". What should I be shoring up? 

 HOW DOES A HOMESCHOOL MOM FIGURE THIS STUFF OUT ON HER OWN?? DO I PICK A GURU TO LISTEN TO AND DO WHAT HE OR SHE SAYS? WHOSE STANDARD DO I FOLLOW? HOW DO I KNOW WHEN IT IS ENOUGH? 

For us, I think the answers to many of these questions have to do with my homeschool philosophy, which is based almost entirely upon Charlotte Mason, and what colleges expect to see, because I do homeschool with the idea of keeping as many doors to open as possible.

 

I would suggest looking at colleges that are possibilities and checking their admissions requirements. Look at a safety school like the local state college and at a reach school and compare admissions requirements. Be reasonable and try to set some long term goals. Then, work backwards from there. Oh, and, sure, look at gurus and educational philosophy and develop a personal philosophy that will help meet those long term goals. Create something that speaks to how you teach and what you want to teach. It should help not so much by dictating what you should use and how you should use it but by helping you shorten the list of products that will be good tools to help meet the goals and will work for your family. And then… don’t be surprised when you find that sometimes it is still just trial and error.

 

Mandy, who even this year bought stuff that ended up not working!

 

[DianeW88]

You are going to burn out completely if you try and teach all four kids separately.  Combine them. 

 

When my oldest two were doing school together, they did the same writing program.  We did vocabulary at the same time (although they had different levels of Wordly Wise).  We did grammar together.  Science was the same...and yes, they were two grades apart.  My dd was "off-sequence" for what would be traditional in high school, but I didn't give a rip.  She managed all four years of lab science by the time she graduated.  They also did history together.  Actually, they did everything together from about third grade on up except math, phonics and spelling.  I taught to my oldest and my dd picked up what she needed when she needed it.

 

And they both ended up with full ride scholarships to their respective universities.  And they've both been on the Dean's list every semester.  Not trying to brag, just trying to save you some aggravation and sleepless nights.  Don't let fear get in the way...this is very doable, and not as hard as you might think.  Hang in there!

[Clear Creek]

Clear Creek,

 

Thanks! Rod and Staff has more than I realized! I look these resource over and miss a lot and it frustrates me so much!

 

Famous Men has been on my short list. 

 

You have hit on 2 or 3 key things that I have been thinking would help despite my struggles and insecurities. Those include Rod & Staff English (I am currently having a temper tantrum with it though), MP's lit, and Famous Men. My husband says that I have good intuition re: the kids but lack confidence and follow through. I spend too much time fretting and being indecisive only to discover that my instincts are good. Follow through is not my strong suit and is my highest goal in teaching this school year. 

 

With MP's lit did you work thru the guides? I have put the 5th grade lit and FMOMA in my cart in preparation for studying Rome to the Reformation though I trying to iron out wrinkles in our workload before finalizing. I am terrible at using samples to determine if a resource would work for us. The lit guides look heavy on comp questions. Is there more to it? What is the value in tiring out those writing muscles to answer comp questions? ETA: My assessment of MP lit has changed after perusing the samples on MP's website here .  There's more to it than comp questions and it is feasible to make some of those comp questions oral to lessen the writing requirement. 

 

We worked through the lit guides last year, but that was because my daughter needed practicing answering questions with a complete sentence. :tongue_smilie:   Otherwise, it works quite well to get the teacher's guide and just do it orally.  She still does the Famous Men guides, because that is her main history curriculum.  She outlines the day after she reads the selection and answers the questions and we discuss it.  I started her outlining three or four paragraphs, now a year later she outlines a longer selection.  Eventually, my plan is to have her do a more in-depth outline and rewrite from that outline; for now she is just writing the main point and the main details of each paragraph (I., A., B., C., II., A., B., C., etc.).

 

[redsquirrel]

**Note taking. I have NO clue. 

 

**Outlining. SWB does this in history studies but the only way to follow WTM's recommendations is to use her resource (Kingfisher I think?). I don't know what resources to use in assigning this. Rod & Staff and WTM both teach outlining but I don't know what to apply the skill to in order to practice it.

 

That is not correct. If you have TWTM 3rd edition SWB specifically removes the need for any explicit source for outlining or really any history work. She suggests a method, not a resource. I have done history as she suggested and we have never used Kingfisher. And outlining isn't done using a history encyclopedia at all. We used the K12 history series Human Odyssey (books 1-3) Hakim's History of US, The two Oxford series, and various library books. Don't let not having Kingfisher hold you back. Classical education isn't about using a particular resource, but an approach to the resource.

 

**Research skills. Where does one begin with this? I don't have any idea as to a scope and sequence. When do I start? How do I start? Is there a resource that will walk me through this?

 

WWS has done a great job with this. It is very systematic.

 

**Reading. My kids read a lot. But, I'm struggling to provide the right type of reading material that will insure they move forward in their skills. I listened to one of SWB's lectures and for 5th grade she mentioned doing all I can to move my child's reading forward. The ONLY thing I can think of is to pull every booklist I know and provide all of those books for my son to read. Beyond that, what should I be doing?

 

TWTM has a reading list for every year. It is in line with the history you would be studying. For the most part I just picked the ones I thought he would enjoy, with a couple of 'you just have to read this one". I often do a quick search for middle school discussion guides for the books to help guide our discussion. If I can't find a middle school one I use a high school one. I don't do a whole unit or anything, just ask some basic questions about the characters and motivations and choices etc.

 

**Is vocabulary study important? Should he be narrating in 5th grade?

 

If you have finished your spelling program then it is a good time to start word study. I didn't get to vocabulary until 7th grade. In 5th and 6th we were still working our way through our spelling program.

 

If you follow TWTM for history, the student will do a short written narration every week. You pick a section of the reading and have the student write a short (4 sentence or so) narration. If your student is not comfortable with narration by 5th grade then now is the time dig in and make it happen.

 

**How MUCH writing should he do? Frankly, when listening to SWB's middle grades writing lecture it sounded like SO little writing (and easy to do). Then, I open up Writing With Skill and practically pass out. It seems like SO. MUCH. MORE and intended by SWB for the 5th/6th grader. I'd much rather write within content subjects then have all of our writing be a separate thing. 

 

In 5th grade we finished WWE4 and did one brief written narration and one short outline per week. In 6th grade we started WWS1. It wasn't as daunting in 6th as it was in 5th. If we had finished WWE4 in 4th grade, I might take 5th grade to make sure my student can write a solid paragraph.

 

**There are so many TYPES Of writing. I don't know what should be taught 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. and how often these types or forms should be practiced. 

 

WWS addresses just that. There are a lot of different kinds of writing and she covers them step by step.

 

This new season of homeschooling is daunting. Setting up appropriate expectations and figuring out what skills to teach, how to teach them, and how often to practice them has me stumped. 

 

5th grade can be daunting. But, over the course of the year I discovered it's really not all that different from 4th grade. You just step it up a little bit. You did the same when you moved from 3rd to 4th grade, right? Just keep reminding yourself that this isn't different from what you have done before.

 

In another thread I read about how 5th grade is a good time to shore up skills. It sounded spot on but then I sat back and asked, "What skills?". What should I be shoring up? 

 

Turning inarticulate thoughts into words and putting words onto paper, moving through your math program as you continue to get ready for Algebra, continuing with science study and reading good books. I am sure there is more, but off the top of my head that is enough to get through a day.

 

[Mrs Twain]

The Core Knowledge K-8 Sequence has a nice section on goals for writing.  It is a free download.  You can read the writing section, +/- other sections for 5th grade.  The content lists in the Sequence may not apply to you, but certainly the lists of skills could be helpful.

http://www.coreknowledge.org/download-the-sequence