Need some help with kids' attitude please!

[kagmypts]

We are just over 3 weeks into our first year of home schooling, and honestly, it is going so well!  I love it, and for the most part, my 2 kids are doing really well.  The kids seem to work hard, and our days are very manageable.  However, I am seeing two less than desirable attitudes beginning to surface, and I would love any suggestions on how to curb them!

 

1) If my kids are not done at exactly the same time, the one who will finish second practically comes unglued.  Since my kids are in second and fourth grades, I have repeatedly explained to my fourth grader that she will more than likely finish after my son (2nd grader) every day.  However, this message is not appearing to sink in since it causes her tears nearly every single day.  She still continues on with her work, and I don't coddle her at all.  However, the crying is going to make me nuts, and quite frankly, it is very inappropriate!

 

As background, we have around 2 hours of morning work, and by the end of that time, my son is normally done with his individual work.  My daughter has normally finished her reading, but she has the written part of her reading assignment left to complete.  After lunch, we do our group work (social studies, geography, and/or science), and then my daughter finishes the written component of her literature study.

 

2)  My daughter seems to cry when starting each subject (I don't think that is the case, but it seems that way), and I have no idea why.  I have asked her if her work is too hard, why she is crying, etc., and she really doesn't know.  About halfway through the morning, she apologizes for crying so much, and she is much better for the rest of the day.  I am sure that this post is making her sound very whiny, but it's truly not that bad.  I am having a hard time accurately conveying the amount of crying.   Her crying in no way distracts from her work, but I don't like having to listen to it.  However, I can foresee this being an actual problem (I would currently classify it as a nuisance), and I want to nip this in the bud ASAP.

 

[idnib]

For the first problem, we've been through the same. It became worse after the kids made friends with some public school kids down the street and my daughter would be playing with the kindergarteners (out early) and DS still had work to do. I also explained to DS many times and it seemed he got it but we would have tears again the next day.

 

We finally agreed he would start earlier in the morning so they would finish at the same time. Now he's in 4th and it doesn't seem to be as much of an issue. He doesn't mind of he still has some work left when she's done, as long as it's less than an hour.

 

Anyway, try starting one earlier.

[AK_Mom4]

Have you tried shaking up your schedule so that the group work is the last thing you do each day?  That way, when the group work is done, everyone is done?  Let the younger one have a bit longer break after lunch to do something quiet while your older one works on the written things.  I don't normally coddle this stuff either, but I can totally see wanting to be done when the group work is finished.

 

As far as the crying, I used to require the kids to take a physical run-around-the-house-or-do-stretches break between subjects.  That seemed to help with the transition between topics.  Would something like that help?

[kagmypts]

We finally agreed he would start earlier in the morning so they would finish at the same time. Now he's in 4th and it doesn't seem to be as much of an issue. He doesn't mind of he still has some work left when she's done, as long as it's less than an hour.

 

Anyway, try starting one earlier.

 

I have thought about this, but honestly I have no idea how I would start one earlier in the morning.  I did not mention in my original post that I also have a preschooler, who is not home schooled.  Before I leave to drop him off, we are doing all of our morning routine items - eating breakfast, getting dressed, any morning chores, etc.  His preschool pick-up time also gives us a hard stop in the middle of the day (just after we eat lunch). 

 

The other logistical problem with shifting when one child starts is that our current schedule allows me to bounce from kid to kid flawlessly.  I can start my DD on independent work while I work with my DS.  Right as I am done with DS, my DD is ready for me to help her.  We do two iterations of this, and everyone is ready for lunch.  The timing of this schedule is perfect!!!  However, we always end up with DD needing an extra 15 minutes of "teacher time" to complete the written part of her literature instruction.  At the end of the day, my DD needs that 15 minutes of teacher time, but I can't work with her until she does her reading for the day.  If DD starts earlier in the day, she is just going to end up with idle time before we break because I have zero downtime during our morning work since I am constantly instructing one of the kids.  I am completely at a loss... do you see anything I could do differently?

 

Have you tried shaking up your schedule so that the group work is the last thing you do each day?  That way, when the group work is done, everyone is done?  Let the younger one have a bit longer break after lunch to do something quiet while your older one works on the written things.  I don't normally coddle this stuff either, but I can totally see wanting to be done when the group work is finished.

 

As far as the crying, I used to require the kids to take a physical run-around-the-house-or-do-stretches break between subjects.  That seemed to help with the transition between topics.  Would something like that help?

 

I have tried playing with this a bit (before my youngest started preschool, and we did not have a hard stop), and it did not really solve anything.  If I worked with my DD before starting group work, my DS was so upset that my DD was working on school while he wasn't.  My DS wants to work hard and be done with school.  I found that this only shifted which person was upset, and with DD getting more of my time after lunch, DS completely tuned out all of our group work.  Shrug.

 

I have tried an exercise break for my DD, and she only comes back more distracted.  My DS, on the other hand, works hard so that he can be done ASAP.  His biggest motivator is being done with school early, and I have had no problems with keeping him on task.

[idnib]

It sounds tough. I have an Audible account and fill(ed) my younger DD's time with audiobooks. Right now she's listening to Peter Rabbit.

[fraidycat]

4th grade DD crying : hormones??

 

For the amount of time it takes to do work: I have a "rule". Grade level/2 + 1= expected work times, give or take 15-30 minutes in either direction. That is, your work should take about this much time. If it doesn't, we will look at the problem. If it's not taking enough time, you're not working hard enough. If it's taking too much, we evaluate why: distracted, not understanding, goofing off, needing help, etc.

 

We had the same problem last year. My DD (5th grade) was always upset that DS (1st) didn't have to work as hard/long. So we spent a day comparing and contrasting work loads (in their books), had a huge discussion about the difference between fairness and equality (they are not one and the same), made some charts on the white board highlighting their differences (gender, age, responsibilities, likes, dislikes, etc.) THEN I laid out "the rule".

 

Today, our first day "back to school" (just discussing routines, schedules, rules, attitudes) we went over the time rule again. So for this year DD IN 6th grade knows her expected work is 4 hours, with the leeway being 3.5 - 4.5 hours/ day, while her younger brother in 2nd is only expected to do 1.5 - 2.5 hours/ day. Each year 30 minutes of work time gets added.

[Tracy]

With regard to the crying, kids that age sometimes are just unable to identify why they are feeling what they are feeling.  It may simply be that she has a new routine and is not accustomed to it yet.  When I had my second baby, the pediatrician was good to warn me that I would see emotional issues for about a month with my 3yo and that was a normal part of adding a new baby to the household.  You have drastically changed your dd's life.  What you are seeing may just be part of the process of getting used to it and perhaps even grieving for the old life.

There are scores of other reasons she could be crying.  It could be that she really does have too much work.  New homeschoolers are prone to start with a bit more than the student can really handle.  It could be that it is more challenging than she needs.  It could be that she has some undisclosed fear about not doing it right.  Or it could be all of these things at the same time.  

[kagmypts]

4th grade DD crying : hormones??

 

 Perhaps.

 

With respect to everything else, my kids fit into your "rule".  My DD currently has 15 to 30 minutes more work than my DS, but I am waiting to introduce Composition to her.  I am thinking that will add about 20 minutes to her day when we officially start. I had planned to start earlier in the year, but I am afraid that it will just be counterproductive at this point.  I kept hoping that some of the crying was the adjustment to home schooling (I have no doubt that the change in the way she is learning has rocked her world), but I think that I can say that we are now in our "groove".  However, the crying has not stopped so now I am trying to figure out something else.  However, she will start composition come September 16 - ready or not!

[kagmypts]

With regard to the crying, kids that age sometimes are just unable to identify why they are feeling what they are feeling.  It may simply be that she has a new routine and is not accustomed to it yet.  When I had my second baby, the pediatrician was good to warn me that I would see emotional issues for about a month with my 3yo and that was a normal part of adding a new baby to the household.  You have drastically changed your dd's life.  What you are seeing may just be part of the process of getting used to it and perhaps even grieving for the old life.

 

There are scores of other reasons she could be crying.  It could be that she really does have too much work.  New homeschoolers are prone to start with a bit more than the student can really handle.  It could be that it is more challenging than she needs.  It could be that she has some undisclosed fear about not doing it right.  Or it could be all of these things at the same time.  

 

I think that there is so much truth in what you wrote.  I can absolutely confirm that she has a fear of not doing it right, and there is probably a little bit of everything else as well. I do believe that her workload is both at her level and not too much, but I also think that the transition from private school to home schooling has been huge.  I have to say that in the three weeks that we have been home schooling that I have already seen so much academic progress.  In many ways, I am so proud of her.  Anyway, do you have any suggestions on how to ease the transition or to alleviate any of the above concerns?  If DD would stop crying over school, I think that I would be in paradise!

[Tracy]

I think that there is so much truth in what you wrote.  I can absolutely confirm that she has a fear of not doing it right, and there is probably a little bit of everything else as well. I do believe that her workload is both at her level and not too much, but I also think that the transition from private school to home schooling has been huge.  I have to say that in the three weeks that we have been home schooling that I have already so much academic progress.  In many ways, I am so proud of her.  Anyway, do you have any suggestions on how to ease the transition or to alleviate any of the above concerns?  If DD would stop crying over school, I think that I would be in paradise!

 

 

Well, I think time is your biggest friend on this one.  Think about the huge transitions that you have had to make in your life--going to college, having a baby, losing a loved one, starting a job, losing a job.  Most of us are not okay after only three weeks, even when it is a transition we were looking forward to.  When I went to college, I was dying to get away from my mom, but I ran up her long distance bill for an entire semester!  

 

She needs to know that the way she is feeling is no surprise.  She needs to hear you talk about the times when you had trouble making transitions.  She needs to know that it is okay to cry and to not feel like you don't want her to cry.  You mentioned that her crying isn't really getting in the way of her work.  That is huge.  Most kids cannot focus when they are in transition.  Have you told her how incredible she is doing?  She needs to hear that a lot--probably way more often than you would ordinarily do it.  

 

Have you ever read The Five Love Languages by James Dobson?  I love this book (and there is one for kids), because it helps me to identify how I can best show my kids that I love them.  My dd8 needs lots of one-on-one time, while my ds5 needs lots of physical attention (hugs, backrubs, etc.).  So if you are looking for ways to comfort her and tell her you love her, I highly recommend this book.  

[Mommy22alyns]

Well, this sounds familiar to me.

 

Sylvia is obsessed with finishing first.  Usually, she does, but sometimes she has meltdowns over cursive and it takes her forever.  I have up my sleeve several little things to keep her busy and not at loose ends distracting Rebecca.  She can do book basket, xtramath, a vocab book, Life of Fred, or get a head start on her Latin.  Luckily, Rebecca does not view this as a race.  Unfortunately, that means she likes to - SQUIRREL!  Yeah.

 

Crying, well, Rebecca gave me completely irrational tears a couple of weeks ago when working a word problem.  A word problem that involved more than one step (which she's done plenty, but somehow forgot how over the summer) but only the simplest math.  I was completely calm, but she wanted me to help her, and I had helped her all I possibly could without doing it myself!  And Sylvia sometimes cries over cursive because it challenges her and she feels like she's doing a terrible job, which means she's a terrible kid and everyone hates her...  Drama queen.

 

Just to say, this is not unusual even when they've been homeschooled from the start.  Some days are just like that.  Even in Australia.

[kagmypts]

Well, I think time is your biggest friend on this one.  Think about the huge transitions that you have had to make in your life--going to college, having a baby, losing a loved one, starting a job, losing a job.  Most of us are not okay after only three weeks, even when it is a transition we were looking forward to.  When I went to college, I was dying to get away from my mom, but I ran up her long distance bill for an entire semester!  

 

She needs to know that the way she is feeling is no surprise.  She needs to hear you talk about the times when you had trouble making transitions.  She needs to know that it is okay to cry and to not feel like you don't want her to cry.  You mentioned that her crying isn't really getting in the way of her work.  That is huge.  Most kids cannot focus when they are in transition.  Have you told her how incredible she is doing?  She needs to hear that a lot--probably way more often than you would ordinarily do it.  

 

Have you ever read The Five Love Languages by James Dobson?  I love this book (and there is one for kids), because it helps me to identify how I can best show my kids that I love them.  My dd8 needs lots of one-on-one time, while my ds5 needs lots of physical attention (hugs, backrubs, etc.).  So if you are looking for ways to comfort her and tell her you love her, I highly recommend this book.  

 

Thank you so much for the little pep talk!  After reading your response, I took a long time tucking my DD into bed tonight.  I feel that it has been ages since I meaningfully tucked her into bed.  I took the time to once again tell her how awesome she is doing and to let her know how hard it must be for her to transition to home schooling.  She was very receptive and gave lots of hugs.  She kept saying, "Thank you, Mommy.  Thank you."  I have to keep reminding myself how often she needs to hear those things.  Thank you for the reminder.

 

I will check out the Love Languages for kids book.  I can tell you without reading the book that my DS's language is one-on-one time, but I am not sure about my DD.  Thank you again!

[kagmypts]

Well, this sounds familiar to me.

 

Sylvia is obsessed with finishing first.  Usually, she does, but sometimes she has meltdowns over cursive and it takes her forever.  I have up my sleeve several little things to keep her busy and not at loose ends distracting Rebecca.  She can do book basket, xtramath, a vocab book, Life of Fred, or get a head start on her Latin.  Luckily, Rebecca does not view this as a race.  Unfortunately, that means she likes to - SQUIRREL!  Yeah.

 

Crying, well, Rebecca gave me completely irrational tears a couple of weeks ago when working a word problem.  A word problem that involved more than one step (which she's done plenty, but somehow forgot how over the summer) but only the simplest math.  I was completely calm, but she wanted me to help her, and I had helped her all I possibly could without doing it myself!  And Sylvia sometimes cries over cursive because it challenges her and she feels like she's doing a terrible job, which means she's a terrible kid and everyone hates her...  Drama queen.

 

Just to say, this is not unusual even when they've been homeschooled from the start.  Some days are just like that.  Even in Australia.

 

Thank you for sharing this.  If both of my kids weren't so set on being finished first, perhaps it would be slightly easier.  LOL  I can absolutely relate to the irrational tears as well!

[tabinfl]

Just another thought on the crying, has she had enough to eat? Maybe an extra snack between or during her assignments?

 

I know that I tend to get weepy VERY easily if I haven't eaten enough, and my youngest didn't fall far from the tree in that regard.

 

Don't discount the hormone changes either, that can start long before any physical signs of puberty.