Math Spine for Gifted 7 Year old?

[kemilie]

I need some opinions, please!  I feel like I've done too much thinking and am now paralyzed in indecision.  :)

 

My 7 1/2 is accelerated in math, but not terribly so?  I think I haven't really pushed him much yet though - we coast through easily.  I have a 10 month old and a 2 year old so the last two years we've done easy *dumb* math as our spine (dumb in my opinion, but it did ensure math was done daily... !).  We started with Right Start Math and I didn't care for it, then did some Math on the Level in areas, and in the last year or so he's done Teaching Textbooks 3, 4, and 5.  We've also done book A of Beast Academy, and we read the Life of Fred Elementary series.  He has all of his addition/subtraction/multiplication/and division facts through 12 down cold (LOVE reflexmath.com for that!).

 

I'm not sure what to do next.  I'm ready to spend more time with him on math and don't love the way Teaching Textbooks explains concepts, so I'm  planning to give it "the boot".  I own Singapore Math 2B which I purchased last year, but I was overwhelmed by the amount of parent involvement.  I still kind of like the idea of it but I don't honestly think it will get done - I have 5 kids and am trying to come to terms with the best curriculum being the one that is manageable!  I know Singapore is popular but I'm just not convinced I will make the time to wrap my head around it.

 

I'm considering Saxon.  It's solid if boring?  Or is it too slow?  We'll continue with Beast Academy, but it's more of a fun supplement for us.  Some sections he can blaze through, others frustrate him (which is good, in my opinion - I don't want everything to come easy).  Looks like year 4 isn't going to be fully available until at least NEXT summer so I'm okay with taking it slow and just using it as a different way of looking at problems.

 

I'm using Math U See with one of my younger children but I don't think it's the right fit for him.  Basically we're solid with addition through division of all kinds, but need to spend some more time with fractions and geometry and percents before hitting higher level math.  And I'm not even sure that I want my 9 year old doing algebra if we keep up at the same pace?

 

Any thoughts for me?  What would you/do you use as a good solid spine?  I know this type of question has been asked before so I appreciate your time pondering my specific situation.  This website is such a great resource to me - and since I've been wrestling with this choice for a few months now I figured I would just get some more opinions!

 

Thanks in advance!

[kiwik]

Have you looked at math mammoth. It is written to the student so you might not have to be so involved (depends on whether he can read as well he can do maths and his personality).

[kemilie]

I'm a bit of a math junkie, sadly math mammoth completely escaped my mind when writing this post - I do own math mammoth, I thought it would be a good resource for supplementing problem areas.  Do you think it's "solid" enough and does a good job explaining the material, to work as a rigorous spine?  To be honest I haven't explored it much yet despite owning it (embarrassing - that's what the toddler and baby have done to my brain!!).  I've heard some say it's similar to Singapore math, is that a valid statement?

[Crimson Wife]

If you like the computer aspect of TT, I would look into the new online version of Singapore called "Math Buddies". Apparently they now offer Primary Mathematics, Math in Focus, and a new Common Core-aligned version (I would personally avoid this one because PM has a more advanced S&S than what is in the CC standards). http://www.mconline.us/LEAD/Login/content/pricing.aspx

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

Here is a link to CTC and it is a special deal for K-12 home educator's.

https://ctcmath.com/purchase/homeschool/?tr_id=fhd

[kemilie]

I don't know much about CTC - anyone here use it/is it a good/in depth  understanding of topics?  I"ll look at Math Buddies too, wondering how parent intensive it is.  Thank you for those suggestions.   Is CTC a core or do you use it to supplement?

 

My main beef with TT is that I don't think it explains concepts in much depth (or always in an extremely intelligent way, for that matter) - I don't care so much that it's a grade level or 2 behind, because you just work ahead.  But I want my kids to have a solid understanding of why and HOW math concepts work and play together!

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

We are new users of CTC this month. I think it could be a core for anyone. I like it so far, but just ordered AOPS for DD13 to see if it is a Stand Alone. I don't care if we use different methods as long as we are all progressing. We have 8 children and have used Saxon mostly, some MUS, some TT. I liked Singapore but at the time it was too time consuming for me as well. I just got Right Start games for our 5 year old and he likes it and CTC.

 

This looks interesting. Julie in MN has it in the Classifieds.

http://www.amazon.com/Calculus-Young-People-Ages-Yes/dp/096216741X#reader_096216741X

 

You are a great mom! I struggle with what math to use too.

 

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

So far:

Everyone likes it! (TT is being replaced by 3 of our kids who like it better.)

Pro's of CTC are: Short lessons getting to the point.

Testing available before each section.

K-12 options.

No discs.

Accountability: Results can be emailed to both parents.

Any child can work on any level.

Scores can be set for passing grades by me ( parent) and I can login to see each child's progress.

Worksheets can be copied by hand on paper or printed out.

 

Slight con:

After working the problems, Each student (older) has to type the correlating answer in to submit.

Requires Internet ( It works fine here)

 

 

I would like more input if anyone else has used CTC. 

 

I am getting bombarded with emails for it. I did get 1 year free so I wanted to try it out on all levels. ( 2 years is great if it works out)

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

Math Mammoth is available on Currclick now:    http://www.currclick.com/product/34367/Math-Mammoth-The-Four-Operations-%28with-a-Touch-of-Algebra%29?it=1&filters=0_0_0

 

I am not familiar with how it compares to Singapore. I am looking at this to supplement.

[acurtis75]

I use mus for my accelerated math spine and then supplement with Singapore CWP, BA & LOF (dd does this by herself so I don't really consider it part of our curriculum). It really doesn't matter what you use

 

For an accelerated student that doesn't need a lot of drill I prefer mastery instead of spiral type programs. Since you own a lot of stuff already I'm assuming you aren't worried about using a book quickly which is the one negative to our approach. We went through alpha - zeta very quickly and now just started pre-algebra after a long break where we did some supplementation and adjusted to having a new baby around.

 

This approach would work with any mastery program but since you are familiar with mus I will use it as an example.

 

We watch DVD and dd does worksheet A. She then can "test out" of the other worksheets and move to the next chapter. We generally move through the early chapters at a pace of several chapters per week. In each book as the problems get more challenging and take longer (I.e multi-digit instead of single digit division) she starts doing some or all of worksheets D-F before testing.

 

We have the new pre-algebra book so now we've added the honors lessons by having her work a few problems a day on that.

[serendipitous journey]

I did find the higher levels of elementary MUS hard to teach to my accelerated child, but if you have them already perhaps you could try them?  If the child is hitting algebra at 9 I would not fret much, that should be fine.  The only concern is that you continue to provide good maths throughout the education.  You could follow MUS algebra/geometry/algebra 2 with AoPS when the child is old enough to do the work more-or-less independently.

 

I would say that if the child likes MUS fine, that is a very good option esp. for keeping your workload manageable.  We dropped it b/c A. detests it.  He doesn't "like" any math program but we've found options that are less disliked.  If you hit do a block with MUS, be sure to ring their customer service (as well as posting here!) -- they are lovely and helpful. 

[acurtis75]

I did find the higher levels of elementary MUS hard to teach to my accelerated child, but if you have them already perhaps you could try them? If the child is hitting algebra at 9 I would not fret much, that should be fine. The only concern is that you continue to provide good maths throughout the education. You could follow MUS algebra/geometry/algebra 2 with AoPS when the child is old enough to do the work more-or-less independently.

 

I would say that if the child likes MUS fine, that is a very good option esp. for keeping your workload manageable. We dropped it b/c A. detests it. He doesn't "like" any math program but we've found options that are less disliked. If you hit do a block with MUS, be sure to ring their customer service (as well as posting here!) -- they are lovely and helpful.

What level did you find difficult? We just started pre-algebra and dd has pretty much always watched the videos and need little instruction from me. I'm wondering if she's going to hit something that requires more help from me.

[serendipitous journey]

What level did you find difficult? We just started pre-algebra and dd has pretty much always watched the videos and need little instruction from me. I'm wondering if she's going to hit something that requires more help from me.

 

No, you're well past where we had trouble.  Which was multi-digit multiplication, multi-digit division, and fractions.  All of those I successfully taught to Button but used other resources.  He was awfully young, though.  And some of the presentation methods just didn't jibe with him at all; some didn't make good sense to me.  Just idiosyncracies, I think; I'm starting my younger son in Primer, and plan to use it for a few levels at least in combination with MEP/SaxonK-3 (haven't figured out the MEP/Saxon tradeoff yet; I just want to do Saxon K year barring disaster). 

[kemilie]

Hmmmm... I have Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Sigma/Delta/Epsilon right now.  I've had my kids watching the lessons for a *fun* different approach to some basic math concepts this summer.

 

I like the idea of blasting through using MUS as a spine, I guess I just wonder with the mastery approach how I really KNOW if they've got the concept or if they just got it for a day or two?  I suppose the fact they can continue to move through the levels and do the more advanced work *should* indicate they have an understanding of what comes before?! :)  It seems like with bright kids they can pick up a concept just like *that*, but you have to review it a few times to make sure it's still there!  Also not sure my oldest really likes MUS, I think he finds it a bit boring and is humoring me!

 

Ana, what does your eldest use for math now?  I was looking at the first Art of Problem solving books/reading the sample pages, how young have people started their kids with it?  I think it would be a bit much for my 7 year old still, just not sure he could conceptually handle all those long equations?

 

 

Acurtis -> We have the new pre-algebra book so now we've added the honors lessons by having her work a few problems a day on that. 

 ?? What are the honors lessons?

 

TGHealthyMom - wow!  You must be even busier than I am with child management.  :)  How did you get a year free with CTC if you don't mind me asking?  I'll have to go see if they have a free trial and give them a look.

 

 

 

[....]

I would use Singapore.  My 11 yro and 8 yro are accelerated in math and that's what they used as a spine (my 8 yro still uses it).  It's cheap, it doesn't have too many problems/too much repetition and you can always supplement with the Intensive Practice books or Challenging Word Problems until you're ready for AOPS.  Then, I would switch to the AOPS Pre-algebra book + Alcumus.  Just my opinion...   You could always add in Fred or something for fun also (my kids really enjoy Life of Fred).  

 

Math Mammoth is also a very solid program, but it has a lot of problems (problems to solve...not problems with the program - Lol).  My oldest daughter buzzed through a number of MM levels during her 4th grade year.  She did several of the topic books (like Integers), too, that Maria Miller sells on her website.  It is also a very good program.

 

Edited to say:

OK, after rereading your first posts...I have some more comments.  We've done alot of living math.  www.livingmath.net   We checked out so many living math books from our library that our library started buying new ones!  My 8 yro loved books that had math riddles...the Sir Cumference books...  We've moved away from that in the past year or so, because those kinds of books only go so far in math.  But - for a 7 yro, that might be a fun way to supplement.

 

Also, have you seen Hands-on Equations?  I'm seriously in love with this program.  My kids are almost finished with it, but it teaches them algebra using game pieces.  It is awesome.  I think it says 3rd grade and up on the website.  My 8 yro started it during the spring of 2nd grade and she's been able to progress and solve the equations.  It really boosted her confidence.

 

There's also something out there called Calculus for Young People (?).  I'm not sure if it's any good...we may try it for fun after Hands-on Equations.  The author said his program is written for ages 7 and up. *shrug*

 

Sorry for rambling, just more thoughts on how to supplement if you guys really enjoy math.

 

 

[acurtis75]

kemilie - I had similar concerns about making sure dd really knew the concepts if we moved so quickly but doing some or all of worksheets d-f and/or the tests addresses that concern. One misconception about mus is that there is no review. The last 3 worksheets in each lesson and the test systematically review all math concepts previously learned. Also, when something is reviewed and it has been a while since it was covered there are usually examples and/or some instructions on the worksheet to remind the student how to do the problems.

 

The honors problems are new challenging problems at the end of each lesson. We are only 1 lesson in but so far I like them :). There is a page in the teacher book and in the student book which has suggestions about how to incorporate them in to your lesson plans and instructions for students on how to approach them. I had dd work on a few problems after she completed the test and will probably just have her do one or two problems a day.

 

Serendipitous journey - we had similar issues with long multiplication and division which I think were age related. She had issues with staying focused through the problems. It wasn't that she was incapable of the work but often stopped in the middle of a problem to think and/or talk to me about Peter Pan and Tinkerbell and would lose her place. We had to work through the ends of those books a bit slower because the longer problems required more stamina and focus. This was when she decided she hated math so I started doing supplementation including LOF. She still says she doesn't like math but often works on Life of Fred and Beast Academy for fun. I told her as we were slogging through those tough subjects that she would enjoy math more once we got through the basics of arithmetic and into more problem solving and algebra. She believed me and is pretty enthusiastic about pre-algebra which we just started. We took a long break during the last few months of my pregnancy and the spring/summer and just did beast academy. I think this has helped her attitude as well as mine.

[....]

 She still says she doesn't like math but often works on Life of Fred and Beast Academy for fun. 

 

Those are fun!  I wish BA had more levels.  My son did a couple of the workbooks and he really enjoyed them, but it seemed like the topics were a little below his level.  :(  Argh!  Maybe I can use BA with one of the younger kids.  The workbook with all the area/perimeter problems was awesome.  The monsters were cool.  I wonder why they would come out with 3rd grade, first.  ?  If they were building a 2nd-5th grade math program, why did they pick 3rd grade to start the books?  

[go_go_gadget]

Those are fun!  I wish BA had more levels.  My son did a couple of the workbooks and he really enjoyed them, but it seemed like the topics were a little below his level.   :(  Argh!  Maybe I can use BA with one of the younger kids.  The workbook with all the area/perimeter problems was awesome.  The monsters were cool.  I wonder why they would come out with 3rd grade, first.  ?  If they were building a 2nd-5th grade math program, why did they pick 3rd grade to start the books?  

 

I don't know if the authors have confirmed this, but there's been speculation that third grade was chosen because that's when the more complicated material begins, so it was important to start with that level to maximize the number of students who will be well-prepared for a challenging program like AoPS when they get there. It's also true (likely for the same reason), that third grade is when some students begin to flounder, and never recover. I've heard third grade math referred to as a particularly critical year.

 

OP: we've used BA as a spine when we could (due to the publication schedule), and have used MM's Blue Series to cover new topics and to review older ones in the meantime. My DS needs to spend a few more weeks with decimals, percents, and higher-level fractions, but he'll be starting MUS Algebra I as pre-algebra in late September. 

[acurtis75]

When we first got the BA books I thought they were too far below level but as we moved further along I saw they really made dd think. She whipped right through the easy problems in each lesson but later in the books the starred problems required some time and effort to complete. The arithmetic for the problems isn't difficult but figuring out how to efficiently solve them and using the methods taught in the guide is worthwhile even though she mastered the tools needed to do the computation in mus before we started BA.