Cornerstone Curriculum vs Veritas Press, what do you mean when you say Veritas is 'reformed?'

[mothergooseof4]

I am researching Omnibus vs Cornerstone's high school materials and keep coming across things saying Omnibus is reformed, which is said in a negative light.  I am Baptist, and having read up on what reformed means, I cannot see a problem with it.  That said, I am drawn more to Cornerstone's materials.  So,  how does ''reformed'' come through in Omnibus, and how is Cornerstone not ''reformed?''  Specific examples would be great.

[Meriwether]

Reformed is only a negative if you are not Reformed.  My Reformed friends would love that aspect.  I might say, "I won't use Omnibus because it is Reformed," but I don't think it is bad even though I framed the statement in the negative.  I use the lower levels of VP which are fairly straightforward, but I may not use Omnibus because it is Reformed.  I don't have specific examples since I don't own Omnibus.

[Lucy]

Reformed just means it aligns with the teachings of the Reformers - Martin Luther, Calvin, etc.  Mainly, man is sinful and lost (total depravity), that we are saved by faith alone, Jesus' death was substitutionary (in our place and what we deserved, not just a good example), scripture is inerrant, God is sovereign over history, etc.  All these themes will be found in the Omnibus.  I don't use it, but I've looked at it and it looks like a great curriculum if you are wanting your kids to think deeply about things. 

[wingedradical]

I am a Protestant and an Evangelical but not Reformed. I used some portions of Cornerstone's World Views of the Western World with my youngest son several years ago and from my perspective, IT was Reformed. If Omnibus is more so it must be very sectarian. I haven't seen it, though.

 

I suppose Cornerstone might have changed but it would have to have to have changed a lot since it was so heavily into Augustine, Francis Schaffer & Calvin, etc. when I used it. I did hear Quine is negative toward classical education, but I have a hard time believing he would have changed that much.

 

BTW, I don't know what brand of Baptist you are, but some Southern Baptists lean Reformed, some lean free church, some lean dispensationalist; there are even Free Will (Armenian) Baptists.  There has been a struggle for a while now and the Reform side is definitely winning within the denomination. They may not all be Reformed enough for the OPC or PCA (solidly Reform denominations), but they seem headed there in many instances.

 

I think it would be good for everyone who seeks to educate their children in their own religion to educate themselves about the differences because they do show up in the curriculum. Most Christian homeschool material is either highly Reformed or highly dispensationalist or, in the case of the Mennonite ones, anabaptist. I certainly don't think you have to refrain from using any curriculum that comes from another point of view, but we should all know what we believe and how our beliefs may vary from something our child is reading from another perspective.

 

I don't say this to exclude anyone from the faith. I pretty much think if you can recite the Apostles' Creed in all honesty, you are my fellow believer. And if you can't, I will still probably like you and think you have valuable things to say! Still, there are some things I want to teach my children. In the end, it will be up to them to embrace them, but I want to teach them as wisdom I have found (or shall I, in order to show that I am not really an Armenian either, say "the wisdom that found me." He he!).

[...................]

You've gotten some good replies, so far.

 

I lean on the side that is called "reformed" because it usually aligns with what I see clearly spelled out in God's Word.  

 

Reformed just means that you believe that you can't "choose God"...He changes your heart first, then you believe.

 

Now, some "reformed" churches add more to that.  Some Reformed Baptist churches are notoriously legalistic.  Some "reformed" churches also lean charismatic (like Sovereign Grace Ministries.)  Right now, the Southern Baptist Convention is heading toward more and more reformed soteriology, while (gladly) staying away from all the legalism.  Another word for Reformed can be "doctrines of grace."  

 

Basically, what you will see with VP is leaning on God's work in mankind, and an emphasis on trusting in God to do the Work, not works, and they will uphold men of the faith like Luther, Calvin, Edwards in high esteem.  

 

There are brothers and sisters in the faith on both sides.   To me if you believe basically the Nicene and Apostles Creed (truly believe, not just say it) then you are a believer.  :o)  

 

BUT I hope that helps you understand where VP is.  

[Whereneverever]

Generally Reformed points towards something being Calvinistic. It's not quite the same as something following the reformers.

[strange_girl]

Explain to me exactly what the Apostles' Creed is?

 

I have been non-denominational charismatic Christian for 30 years (definitely what you describe as 'reformed') but we teach solely from the Bible and no other source. What is the creed and where is it in the Bible? I've probably read it a million times but never heard it named that :)

[mothergooseof4]

Thanks for all of the responses.  

 

So, what is in Cornerstone's materials that makes it less reformed?

[texasmama]

Here is a link to the Apostles Creed:

 

http://www.ccel.org/creeds/apostles.creed.html

 

 

[strange_girl]

Here is a link to the Apostles Creed:

 

http://www.ccel.org/creeds/apostles.creed.html

Oh, it just says what the Bible says already. Thanks :)

[Miss Marple]

Thanks for all of the responses.  

 

So, what is in Cornerstone's materials that makes it less reformed?

I've used Cornerstone for many years.  I used it in such a way that we discussed all the works (Calvin particularly) and allowed the students and their parents to discuss/decide their beliefs.  Just studying a work doesn't mean one must embrace all beliefs espoused in that work.  In fact, my class developed a particular "uncomfortableness" with Calvin (as a person and his works).  They learned to place him in context in history, understood his impact on history, etc.  I can say that the eight families of the students in my class all probably had some slightly different beliefs.  That didn't preclude us from reading Calvin's works.  I became a great tweaker :)

 

When it appeared that the syllabus was pushing a particular bent, we discussed that.  Since there is no answer key, we were quite comfortable picking apart aspects of it LOL.  

 

I picked Cornerstone over VP because the volume of reading isn't so skewed towards the Reformed (and I would say the excessively Reformed) position.  I think you could use VP and eliminate/trade some of the works for others. 

 

Like a PP said, most of the curriculum you will find for homeschools will be bent towards a particular persuasion (Anabaptist, Reformed, Dispensationalist, etc.) so you will need to develop a way to deal with that as you travel this road.  It's possible and I truly learned so much and solidified my beliefs and changed some beliefs along the way.

[mothergooseof4]

I went with  Starting Points because it simply looks more doable to me.  Omnibus is very pretty, but it overwhelms me.  I have already worked through a bit of SP on my own and really like it so far.

[KathyJo]

I picked Cornerstone over VP because the volume of reading isn't so skewed towards the Reformed (and I would say the excessively Reformed) position.  I think you could use VP and eliminate/trade some of the works for others.

 

I've not used Cornerstone, but this sums up why we didn't stick with Omnibus for long. I felt that both the text and the books were hyper reformed. If there had just been some reformed choices here and there, we might have been able to substitute, or it might have opened the door towards discussion. As it was, everything about the program has a reformed slant, and since we don't lean that way, it just didn't work. 

 

I would like to point out that those of us who aren't reformed also believe what we see clearly spelled out in God's Word. We simply have a completely different understanding of what is clearly spelled out. 

 

When I hear the word "reformed," I think Calvin, and I think TULIP. I'm not sure if one can be reformed and not believe in Calvin's interpretation of Scripture.