Miquon without rods

[longnightmoon]

After a few math curriculums misses, my dd has found her stride with Miquon. We had trouble with RS because the manipulatives were distracting (and I didn't like teaching it) and the pages of Singapore were way too visually stimulating. Miquon's uncluttered presentation and large spaces for writing has been great for my dd.

 

However.

 

She refuses to use the rods. She wants to do the math mentally. Using manipulatives with Rightstart was also a problem as she much prefers and does better with a plain worksheet of numbers to pictures and manipulative use. She's pretty math intuitive so she does well but she often ends up guessing, too. The whole "math lab" discovery aspect isn't really happening. Is the beauty of Miquon the use of the rods and is it still a solid program without them? Sometimes I end up showing her how the problem can be done with the rods but that hardly seems ideal, either, and she isn't very interested. I'm really growing to like Miquon a lot but I feel like we're missing the point of the program. Can anyone relate or have any insight on how I can better teach Miquon? I'd be grateful for any suggestions.

 

Thanks so much!

 

Edie

DD 4/07

DD 7/09

DD 2/13

[happypamama]

Both of my big kids went through stages where they didn't want to use the rods. DD thought they were babyish (and she never really loved Miquon anyway), and DS1 got to the point where he found them tedious or something, I think. So I just let him solve problems without the rods. I use them judiciously (they were a great way to help him visualize cups/pints/quarts/gallons), but not for every concept, and I think that helps him to feel that they're useful and not tedious. He'll even ask to get them out sometimes if he's trying to figure out something, but he's very much into mental math and picturing things in his head. (This child tends to be a bit spacey and in his own world; he actually told me one day, "Mom, when I'm staring into space during math, it's not that I'm not paying attention; it's that I'm picturing it in my head." LOL, okay, then.) So I would just let your child solve problems without the rods, gently suggesting them if a concept isn't making sense.

[chadzwife]

wats the point without the rods, the manipulatives? i had a math-intuit also and req'd he use them wen he got a problem wrong if he balked at using them to do the problems. and wen we were first intro-ing a new concept. or having probs with it again.he's was a very no-nonsense student also but he def intuited math. he would tell me stuff at 6yo and i'd be blown away. i suck at math lol.

another thot. if u dont like the math lab aspect of it, try Math U See. very similiar to miquon and the cusenaire rods work fine with MUS. but its not alot of discovery-orientation.

i LOVED Miquon for learning ME math--finally after 3 yrs of high school math even as a teen. I understood fractions were equal parts <ahem>. maybe go stick it out with the daughter to teach urself? u can switch over to MUS after ur done with the 6th miquon book too. we aactually used the Key To series of bks also after miquon and pretty much got into Saxon Math 65 no prob.(skip math 87 and go to alg 1/2 if u go this route) So u wudnt lose any time switching to MUS later.

OR just use MUS now and u'll prob still learn alot. We used higher levels (high school levels) MUS with my 2 girls and Jacobs algebra and geometry with my son after them all doing Math 65, 76 and Alg 1/2.

oh yeah, used some Developmental Math too b4 the Saxon. We used alot of different things lol

This time around with the new family (15yr gap btwn 3 older and 2 younger) we're using miquon and will switch to MUS and stay put. probably ;)

[longnightmoon]

Both of my big kids went through stages where they didn't want to use the rods. DD thought they were babyish (and she never really loved Miquon anyway), and DS1 got to the point where he found them tedious or something, I think. So I just let him solve problems without the rods. I use them judiciously (they were a great way to help him visualize cups/pints/quarts/gallons), but not for every concept, and I think that helps him to feel that they're useful and not tedious. He'll even ask to get them out sometimes if he's trying to figure out something, but he's very much into mental math and picturing things in his head. (This child tends to be a bit spacey and in his own world; he actually told me one day, "Mom, when I'm staring into space during math, it's not that I'm not paying attention; it's that I'm picturing it in my head." LOL, okay, then.) So I would just let your child solve problems without the rods, gently suggesting them if a concept isn't making sense.

 

 

My dd sounds very much like your ds! Like your son, I do think she's picturing things in her head. Using them more judiciously might be just the ticket. We haven't gotten to measurement yet but I do think she may be more receptive to using rods for those concepts. I will add that she does love to build cities with the rods - she just doesn't like them for math. : ) Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it!

 

All the best,

 

Edie

DD 4/07

DD 7/09

DD 2/13

[longnightmoon]

wats the point without the rods, the manipulatives? i had a math-intuit also and req'd he use them wen he got a problem wrong if he balked at using them to do the problems. and wen we were first intro-ing a new concept. or having probs with it again.he's was a very no-nonsense student also but he def intuited math. he would tell me stuff at 6yo and i'd be blown away. i suck at math lol.

another thot. if u dont like the math lab aspect of it, try Math U See. very similiar to miquon and the cusenaire rods work fine with MUS. but its not alot of discovery-orientation.

i LOVED Miquon for learning ME math--finally after 3 yrs of high school math even as a teen. I understood fractions were equal parts <ahem>. maybe go stick it out with the daughter to teach urself? u can switch over to MUS after ur done with the 6th miquon book too. we aactually used the Key To series of bks also after miquon and pretty much got into Saxon Math 65 no prob.(skip math 87 and go to alg 1/2 if u go this route) So u wudnt lose any time switching to MUS later.

OR just use MUS now and u'll prob still learn alot. We used higher levels (high school levels) MUS with my 2 girls and Jacobs algebra and geometry with my son after them all doing Math 65, 76 and Alg 1/2.

oh yeah, used some Developmental Math too b4 the Saxon. We used alot of different things lol

This time around with the new family (15yr gap btwn 3 older and 2 younger) we're using miquon and will switch to MUS and stay put. probably ;)

 

 

Thanks so much for your response! I am also terrible at math and I can definitely see my aversion to math was largely in part to my education. Like so many others, I want a different type of math experience for my dd. The discovery aspect of Miquon is appealing to me so I'd love to make it work. It's funny you mention MUS because I can access it for free through my school district. I've looked at it but wasn't crazy about working on addition/subtraction for a year, multiplication for a year, etc. but I can see that using Miquon first (or maybe a supplement?) you could see more how the operations are connected. That's some great food for thought. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience.

 

Edie

DD 4/07

DD 7/09

DD 2/13

[kiwik]

Have a look at math mammoth. I think miquon without rods would get too annoying after a while. Also it does seem a bit pointless.

[Violet Crown]

Great Girl did Miquon without the rods or the guide - just the six books. Manipulatives just annoyed and confused her.

 

There's nothing magical about the rods. If your child doesn't need them, he doesn't need them. Past the first book and a bit, they hardly come into it anyway.

[Farrar]

Hm... I disagree with some of the things being said here.

 

While MUS and Miquon both use rods/manipulatives as a central part of the program, I see them as being radically different. MUS is a much more rigid, mastery-based program that moves much more linearly by covering just a tiny number of topics at a time whereas Miquon is so spiral and winding and touches on a million different topics in every lab book.

 

Similarly, if Miquon appeals to a student, but not the rods, then Math Mammoth is also radically different in approach. It's very incremental, has tons of problems on every page, has a cluttered look, and pushes for mastery of topics before a student can move on. This is also in contrast to Miquon's spiral, light touch of showing a topic bit by bit so a student can uncover it and it's clean, simple lab book pages.

 

I don't think Miquon without the rods is pointless... Especially at the "higher levels" of the program, the rods in our house only came out sometimes - when introducing a new topic, or when ds got stuck on something. There's a huge amount of meat in the set up of the lab books themselves and only a few of the sheets specifically require the rods. And while the teaching in the Annotations is heavy on the rods (and in the First Grade Diary especially), there are many activities that don't require them.

 

Here's what I would suggest... From your sig, your dd is newly 6 yo, right? I'm guessing that you've been trying to play a lot of the "first games" kind of things with the rods - trains, staircases, etc? And doing simple addition, subtraction, multiplication, yes? That stuff is super simple and while it's important, maybe skip ahead and do something really hard with the rods to show their power as a problem solving tool. Or maybe do something that's playing a game with the rods instead of "working" with them. Something like Rosie's The Princess in the Dungeon game maybe. So it's a game, it's silly and fun, and it gets to some tricky concepts that can be made simple by using the rods.

 

I also think it's okay to just make the rods a demo you do occasionally and maybe she'll get to it one day when she gets stuck. I mean, it's not going to really hurt her, you know? There's so much good in Miquon in my opinion, that any of the Miquon style teaching is good for a kid.

[Ellie]

After a few math curriculums misses, my dd has found her stride with Miquon. We had trouble with RS because the manipulatives were distracting (and I didn't like teaching it) and the pages of Singapore were way too visually stimulating. Miquon's uncluttered presentation and large spaces for writing has been great for my dd.

 

However.

 

She refuses to use the rods. She wants to do the math mentally. Using manipulatives with Rightstart was also a problem as she much prefers and does better with a plain worksheet of numbers to pictures and manipulative use. She's pretty math intuitive so she does well but she often ends up guessing, too. The whole "math lab" discovery aspect isn't really happening. Is the beauty of Miquon the use of the rods and is it still a solid program without them? Sometimes I end up showing her how the problem can be done with the rods but that hardly seems ideal, either, and she isn't very interested. I'm really growing to like Miquon a lot but I feel like we're missing the point of the program. Can anyone relate or have any insight on how I can better teach Miquon? I'd be grateful for any suggestions.

 

Thanks so much!

 

Edie

DD 4/07

DD 7/09

DD 2/13

 

Maybe Making Math Meaningful would be better?

 

Of course, maybe she doesn't need a process math at all (one that uses manipulatives of any kind) but would just be happier with a traditional math (such as Rod and Staff, which has some visuals but not manipulatives).

[longnightmoon]

Have a look at math mammoth. I think miquon without rods would get too annoying after a while. Also it does seem a bit pointless.

 

Math Mammoth is a great program. I should have mentioned that we did give it a try. Unfortunately, the small spaces for writing answers were very frustrating for my dd. I thought the black and white presentation would be perfect but there were so many problems on the page it would overwhelm my dd, even if I covered some up. I do think it's a really great program and hope it might work for my next dd.

 

Great Girl did Miquon without the rods or the guide - just the six books. Manipulatives just annoyed and confused her.

There's nothing magical about the rods. If your child doesn't need them, he doesn't need them. Past the first book and a bit, they hardly come into it anyway.

 

That's very reassuring! And I was wondering if the rods were used all the way through the books. Thanks for responding - I appreciate it!

 

 

I don't think Miquon without the rods is pointless... Especially at the "higher levels" of the program, the rods in our house only came out sometimes - when introducing a new topic, or when ds got stuck on something. There's a huge amount of meat in the set up of the lab books themselves and only a few of the sheets specifically require the rods. And while the teaching in the Annotations is heavy on the rods (and in the First Grade Diary especially), there are many activities that don't require them.

Here's what I would suggest... From your sig, your dd is newly 6 yo, right? I'm guessing that you've been trying to play a lot of the "first games" kind of things with the rods - trains, staircases, etc? And doing simple addition, subtraction, multiplication, yes? That stuff is super simple and while it's important, maybe skip ahead and do something really hard with the rods to show their power as a problem solving tool. Or maybe do something that's playing a game with the rods instead of "working" with them. Something like Rosie's The Princess in the Dungeon game maybe. So it's a game, it's silly and fun, and it gets to some tricky concepts that can be made simple by using the rods.

I also think it's okay to just make the rods a demo you do occasionally and maybe she'll get to it one day when she gets stuck. I mean, it's not going to really hurt her, you know? There's so much good in Miquon in my opinion, that any of the Miquon style teaching is good for a kid.

This is so helpful. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Yes, we are doing mostly addition and multiplication at this point. As math comes pretty easily to my dd, I think your suggestion of skipping to some harder concepts is a great one - thank you! I'll definitely give the Princess and Dungeon game a look, too. We love games around here and if the rods could be incorporated that could be really positive. At the same time, I'm glad to get affirmation from you and others that Miquon has a lot of merit even without the rods. The presentation has been our biggest hang-up with finding the right math program and Miquon has really met the need with its uncluttered pages. Plus, she asks to do math everyday which has been pretty great. Thanks again for your insight.

 

 

Maybe Making Math Meaningful would be better?

Of course, maybe she doesn't need a process math at all (one that uses manipulatives of any kind) but would just be happier with a traditional math (such as Rod and Staff, which has some visuals but not manipulatives).

 

Thank you for your suggestions! I've never heard of Making Math Meaningful before. I do wonder if Miquon is enough on its own for cementing math facts so maybe a traditional math program would be a nice thing alongside Miquon. R&S's plain presentation is definitely a positive. I appreciate your response.

 

Edie

DD 4/07

DD 7/09

DD 2/13