Latin vs. Spanish

[Jaybee]

Ds12 has been working through First Form Latin this year, and it hasn't been a great fit. I haven't been very involved because of intensive time spent with Ds9, trying to bring his reading skills up to par. I do not know Latin myself, and just didn't feel I had the time (or inclination) to learn it with him.

 

I realize that there is value in it, but I have some questions related to Spanish grammar and form. I used to speak Spanish fluently, and could again with only a little work. Ds would like to switch to Spanish, and I could be a lot more help with a lot less effort in this area. So . . . since Spanish is a Latin-based language, with what appears to me (again, I haven't studied Latin in depth enough to know for sure) a very similar grammatical structure and vocabulary, what are the advantages of learning Latin over learning Spanish, other than being able to read Latin writings after some years of study? Because you have the other side of being able to read a very large quantity of Spanish literature as well as communicate in it; this is not exactly the same as the live vs. dead language argument, but just trying to think it out when I don't have the Latin side of the equation under my belt.

 

Thoughts and opinions, please?

[Haiku]

If you have to choose just one, I would go with Latin. Latin does more than help you read Latin writings. It helps you learn to think logically, it teaches you more about English grammar (I realize learning a modern language does this, too, but I have seen more gains in this area via Latin), and it improves your English and scientific vocabularies. Learning Latin will make learning Spanish down the road much easier, but it doesn't really work the other way. Additionally, when you know Latin people think you are really smart, and even if that's a cheesy reason to learn it, having colleges or potential employers think you are brainy is a definite plus.

 

My dd is learning both Spanish and Latin. We started with Spanish and then added Latin in. I think she could have progressed much more quickly in Spanish had we started Latin first.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

Btw, you might want to try Getting Started with Latin. It could be done independently, but even if you teach him you're only looking at about 20 minutes a day. It's easy to follow and builds on itself in a completely non-intimidating way.

 

Tara

[Matryoshka]

Learning Latin will make learning Spanish down the road much easier, but it doesn't really work the other way.

 

 

Why would you think that? I speak Spanish, and I can parse quite a bit of Latin even though I've never studied it, even read much of Lingua Latina - I'm pretty sure I could pick it up fairly quickly if I had a mind to. Spanish is a Latin-based language, and you do get a lot of the Latin roots from it as well.

 

Spanish is not an inflected language (which is where Latin helps with the Logic). That makes it easier to learn, but it does not have that logic aspect the way Latin does. You do have the challenge to learn how to pronounce and speak it intelligibly, which you don't in Latin (unless you want a conversation with the Pope or a Latin scholar). But the pay-off is after learning it, you can converse with millions of people you couldn't before - that's what pushed me in the direction of Spanish. I ended up being able to study abroad and really get fluent. If you're not planning on studying to the level of conversational ability, maybe that doesn't factor in.

[Haiku]

Why would you think that?

 

 

Mainly because of what you mentioned, that Spanish is not an inflected language the way Latin is. Latin grammar can get very complex, and going from Latin grammar to Spanish grammar is easier than going from Spanish grammar to Latin grammar. Perhaps I should have said, "It doesn't work that way to the same degree."

 

Tara

[Jaybee]

Ds did most of Getting Started with Latin last year. He enjoyed it, but I didn't bring it stateside with us because of how far along he was in it. However, my impression was that he would need to move on into a more formal approach afterward, to get more advanced. He did it all on his own. Showing my ignorance here, but what does an "inflected" language mean? Maybe this really does sound ignorant in comparison to Latin (which is why I am asking questions), but Spanish seems pretty logical to me as well.

 

He loves Art of Argument, and we will continue studying logic after that, with a formal logic program.

 

As for Spanish, we would definitely expect him to learn it well enough to actually converse naturally. We lived in a Spanish-speaking country, away from any ex-pats, for quite a few years, but before he was born.

 

I guess I am saying, "Convince me that the difference in teaching him something I already know well, and his self-teaching in something I do not know is worth the effort. Or . . . let me off the hook and ease my feelings about just going with Spanish."

[MyLittleWonders]

I agree with Tara - Latin, to me, gives you much more bang for your buck. We are doing GSwL right now and then will go onto LfC A (there's DVDs that teach each lesson and my kids like Chris Perrin, who does the videos). (We did LfC A just over a year ago, but it was too much too fast for their ages, so we stepped back with GSwL.) Another option, if you do want to keep with Latin would be Lively Latin; I have not used it but have read many good things about it.

 

Is there a way you can keep Latin studies for him to do independently/semi-independently (especially via a program like LfC A or Lively Latin) and start teaching him Spanish as well? I just feel strongly that learning the Latin will help so much with not only your ds picking up Spanish, but the other Romance languages should he wish to learn more than one. (Plus we have learned so much more about the English language and grammar through our Latin studies than we did with English grammar programs). With Latin we can actually "see" the grammar because it is inflected.

[Matryoshka]

Inflected means that the adjectives and/or nouns change depending on various cases. In English (and Spanish) the pronouns change based on case, but not adjectives or nouns. I speak German as well, which is an inflected language - it has 4 cases, and for the most part only the adjectives are inflected (although there are some nouns in some genders and cases), Latin has 6? cases and I believe both nouns and adjectives are fully inflected.

 

This allows word order to be much more flexible - in English (and Spanish) word order is more important to meaning - in an inflected language you can move words around more and still determine meaning (hence it being like a logic puzzle).

[Matryoshka]

I guess I am saying, "Convince me that the difference in teaching him something I already know well, and his self-teaching in something I do not know is worth the effort. Or . . . let me off the hook and ease my feelings about just going with Spanish."

 

 

Oh, heck, how'd I miss in the OP that you speak Spanish?? Between that and that he'd rather do Spanish, don't even think about feeling guilty. Teach the boy Spanish!

[MusicMama]

Go with what will be successful in your house. Yes, I agree that in an ideal world, Latin is the best choice. It serves as more than just language study, but also serves as vocabulary, logic, and critical thinking. BUT, my kids will not be learning Latin first. I have ready access to many, many people with fluency in Spanish. My time is extremely limited. The curriculum that is done, and done well is infinitely superior to that which is best but not done well, if at all. You have said that your DS already attempted a study of Latin on his own, without much direction from you. I don't think a change in curriculum will change the results you have seen this past year. I think that if you have a lot on your plate and have a rich background in the Spanish language, you would be foolish not to utilize such a valuable resource. If on the other hand, you have the time to learn alongside your DS or employ tutoring of some kind, Latin would be best. But what would you have to give up to accomplish that, and is it worth it in the long run? Only you can decide.

[boscopup]

I'm planning to do both. We're doing Latin now, and I plan to continue with Latin and maybe add some Spanish next year. I think practically, Spanish will be more useful, since we can talk to other people. I'm definitely seeing where Latin is good for general "brain building" though. If you can't do both, I'd just go with Spanish in your case.

[Jaybee]

Thanks for the input, all. We'll see how it goes. I feel that if he does Latin, he really needs to buy into it himself. That isn't my general attitude toward his studies, but I just can't invest the time into it myself right now to learn it, at least not well. I would love for him to study it, but there are other ways that he is stretching himself as well, and we are going to have to prioritize, considering all things.

[thebacabunch]

I am taking a hybrid approach to Spanish/ Latin. My kid is learning Spanish and studying latin and greek roots. We are using duolinguo for Spanish (which is a superior and FREE spanish program) and Word within the Word after Caesar's English (MCT). I am bilingual, having learned Spanish as an adult, and have no problem reading and learning Latin (which I am doing). It is a lot easier because I learned Spanish.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I guess I am saying, "Convince me that the difference in teaching him something I already know well, and his self-teaching in something I do not know is worth the effort. Or . . . let me off the hook and ease my feelings about just going with Spanish."

 

Oh, I would definitely choose Spanish in your shoes. I wouldn't feel the least bit torn over it, either. And I am not just saying that because you basically asked us too. :lol: I had enough Spanish in school that I feel comfortable teaching it. I also took a year of Latin in high school but do not remember much of it at all. I have done Spanish with the kids since the beginning but have been putting off Latin for a couple of years now. DS10 will be in 5th next year and I have really been feeling like I should start...but still not feeling it, if you know what I mean. :tongue_smilie: No way would I choose it over Spanish. The ability to speak a second modern language is huge! Plus, we are Texans, so speaking Spanish will be highly marketable. Latin study confers all sorts of benefits, of course, but I don't think that it is as practically useful in everyday life as Spanish is.

 

Thanks for the input, all. We'll see how it goes. I feel that if he does Latin, he really needs to buy into it himself. That isn't my general attitude toward his studies, but I just can't invest the time into it myself right now to learn it, at least not well. I would love for him to study it, but there are other ways that he is stretching himself as well, and we are going to have to prioritize, considering all things.

 

Remember the part where I said I wasn't feeling the Latin? Well, I'm still not. DS, however, recently read all the Percy Jackson books and requested a Greek and Latin program. I already had Lively Latin and Latin for Children on hand (don't ask :lol:), so I just handed LL over and, VOILA, Latin is getting done. It is his. He does it on his own time, and he feels like a super genius. :lol: If I made him do Latin, I am guessing that he would not feel the same. Sometimes things just work out. You never know.

[boscopup]

The ability to speak a second modern language is huge! Plus, we are Texans, so speaking Spanish will be highly marketable. Latin study confers all sorts of benefits, of course, but I don't think that it is as practically useful in everyday life as Spanish is.

 

On that point, it reminds me of a discussion I had with a high school friend of mine who is a neurologist. She took Latin in high school for 3 or 4 years (I forget which). I had asked her a Latin question a couple years back, and she answered my question, then went on to say that she wished she'd taken Spanish instead of Latin. She didn't think Latin had helped her at all in medical school (that surprised me!), and she now lives in California and works with a lot of elderly patients. Knowing Spanish would be very beneficial for her in her working life. So she actually suggested that I not bother with Latin, but teach Spanish instead. ;)

 

Of course, I'm teaching Latin and Spanish, and we might hit Greek at some point as well (which would be useful for Bible study). We have plenty of time. My oldest is not quite 9. :D

[Library Momma]

I took years of Latin and Spanish (and Hebrew as well). I'd choose Spanish in a heartbeat. Latin was never of use to me at all (and I was a Science Major). You do not need to have taken Latin to recognize Latin word roots. Spanish on the other hand has proven useful both casually and professionally.

[Jaybee]

Okay, well, I've got to have a good talk with him about all this, and see again just what he's thinking. He is using Roots of English (Memoria Press) this year as well. I was planning on using Galore Park's Spanish OR Latin, but will take a good look at Duolingo first--I hadn't heard of it. He may have to experiment a little. This is a child who has gone along, bright, but no areas that just seemed to jump out academically. Until this year. Now his interest in science is skyrocketing, he's playing classical guitar, he's loving playing around with logic (games and Art of Argument), and his reading interests have jumped up a notch in difficulty. I feel like I'm just hanging on for the ride. I may do like Alte Veste, and get a new Latin book to leave lying around "just in case."

 

It's fun just hearing different takes on it all.